Peter Bleed

I'm challenged. I hope someone will unpack this presentation. Peter

I agree with Arnold (as usual). These gomoku-zogan tsuba are a reflection and indication of what seems to have been a active recycling and "hustling" trade that was the low end of sword marketing during Late Edo times. Musui's Story, the autobiography of a ronin describes how he supported himself for a while by buying trading in fittings he bought in flea markets. Not all the hustle was for the foreign trade, I suspect. I think this tsuba may have begun life as an "Onin" style piece and it may have been flipped and turned before the scrap brass wires was fused on to the surface. Peter

Joe and Mark, Thank you. The Board worked. Peter

All right, gang, give me some practical advice. Others have have sought advce on purchases on eBay, from various online dealers, etc etc. What good is the NMB, if i can't ask a - hammm - practical question!!! I just got a call from a - well - slick. He offered me an 1850 field officers' sword (which i will put at $250) AND an aluminum handled Japanese non-com sword with NO saya, AND a saya (only) for a type 32 Army cavalry sword. So here's the question... should I invest 150 in the bare noncom sword and the singleton scabbard. Quckly, colleagues, the timer is running on this one! Peter

Thanks to those of you who explained this matter For what it is worth - not much! - my reaction when first seeing the sword on Andy's page was that the signature "looked" pretty good. But without (any) interest in the sword/era/school, and faith in Andy's typically erudite assessment (did he almost use a triple negative? they are likely to say it is not authentic...) I didn't get the books out. Now I wish had. Peter

Thank you Randy. This was an interesting post. Northern Iwate had to have been pretty remote so this research was real adventure. I assume that this iron ore was largely used in the cast iron industry, but the role of northern steel working in early development of Japanese swords is way under appreciated. I wish he had done soem archeology while he was visiting those old mine shafts. Peter

Here is what the motorcyclists have to say about Neil http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloff ... acerID=208

I learned today, and must note with sorrow, that Neil Keen, a long time collector from the St. Louis area has passed away. Neil was a Hall of Fame flat track motorcycle racer with a sharp wit and a very good eye. I always appreciated his insights about well crafted objects, swords, fittings, or anything else. Neil faced medical issues for some time, but anyone who saw him whip thru the Chicago Show on his power chair could see that he never lost his racer's sensibilities. The world is reduced. Peter Bleed

Wonderful thread! I'd like to see all of these guards, but if I had to vote based on the information presented, I'd say they are all cast. Look closely at the "Soten" signature. The marks are round and soft. Chinese, Japanese? Who knows, all I can say is, I don't want these bad boys. But they will certainly confuse the market. Peter

Dear Friends, I just had a wonderful exchange with Jan Culbertson on Manchukouan short swords and with his permission, I am attaching it below. The take away message may be - keep asking til you get the answer you want. :D From: Jan Culbertson [mailto] Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 12:25 PM To: Peter Bleed Subject: Re: Manchukuoan short sword Hello Peter: At one point I was collecting photos of Manchukuo swords and daggers to make a book about them, but I gave up on the project because it was too hard to find pics of them. I remember having pics of this one though, and also one with two stars on the backstrap. I think the star is a symbol of rank (brigadier general). And yes, I am about 95% sure it is Manchukuo. Best regards, Jan ----- Original Message -----e From: Peter Bleed To: Culbertson_J@msn.com Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:34 AM Subject: Manchukuoan short sword Dear Mr. Culbertson As a long time collectors of Japanese swords (Chairman of the JSSUS 1980-1983) with a minor interest in Japanese colonialism , I recently acquired a short sword that I think was made for use in Manchukuo. I showed this on the Japanese sword Message Board and got essentially NO response. One collector suggested that it was a "fake", but I trust that it is vintage. It rather "looks" Japanese but I am sure that it was made on the continent. It has a "star and sorghum" motif that Jim Dawson presents, but he does not show a sword like it. The blade measures 40 cm long. I would appreciate any comments or reaction you might have. Thank you, Peter Bleed PhD.

Mat and Thomas, Thank you for your comments. Sword interest can lead in many different directions, but after 146 views and 2 comments, I think we can conclude that potential Manchukuoan swords are NOT a hot area of collector interest. Matt, your sword is just like a sword (plate 28-18) shown in Jim Dawson's terrific volume. It shows nothing like my short sword, so Thomas, you might be right. Still, I remain pretty darn sure that this is WWII vintage. It feels and just looks "right" (to me). Dawson does show a belt buckle from Mike Quigley"s collection that has has the same crest motif. Maybe my babies won't starve. All this to say, thanks! Peter

So, Chris, Is this the one you were going to put over the fire? Peter

Jon, Welcome. You will have a great time, but I am not sure that I can outline a "thought process" that describes Japanese sword assessment. I think "collecting behavior" is far more important than any "thought process". I think you should look at swords, meet and chat with others, and see how swords actually move. I urge you to come to the upcoming Tampa sword show. And I'll bet there are collectors somewhere near you. Call them! The eBay item you asked us to consider seems completely typical of stuff that is out there. While you are touring eBay, you might wish to check out these items. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Facts-and-Funda ... 485f90c618 http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Japanese-Sw ... 3389960ad8 http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Connoisseur ... 1c3af09fd1 http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Japanese-Sw ... 27dcdd5197 Again, welcome Peter

Dear Friends, I wish I could say that I did some scouting yesterday and found a really nice Sendai shinto - a Kunikane, say - that I would love to have in my collection, but . . . . that didn't happen. What i found seems to be a potentially unusual Manchukuon dagger. I hope somebody on this Board might find it worth seeing. The blade is a rather crudely formed shinogi-zukuri shape, 40 cm long with no habaki. I can't believe it is Japanese-made, but I am completely sure that it is WWII vintage. This is NOT a recent Chinese production. The hilt has fake tortoise shell wrap below a brass backstrap that features a Star surrounded by sorghum. This is the motif that Jim Dawson calls the third Manchukuo government symbol. The same motif is on the scabbard fittings. Has anyone ever seen another of these? Peter

Sendai shinto - esp Kunikane. A strong and persistent line marked by beautiful masame. Peter Bleed

1942 Shigefusa

talk, being cheap, let me suggest that the smigh name characters are "KIYOMICHI" Peter

Vern, I happen to be on line when you posted this blade. It seems kind of interesting, but in keeping with recent standards, I urge YOU to translate that signature. It start with "Fujiwara" so you can start with the smith's name. You can do this and it will be fun! Peter

Adam, We may be hijacking this thread, but at that risk, let me say that prices seem a BIT less standardized that collectability. In general, it looks like prices are going down. Whatever the price, quality assessment seems more patterned. It is pretty easy to assess the quality of common signatures, to place most signed swords into a school or a lineage, and then to get a sense of what people think about that category. Likewise, obvious "take aways" of a particular sword (suriage, machi-okuri,odd length, kizu, yahh dahhh yahhh da) are rather easy to assess. We just saw it done with the two swords Roland invited us to think about. Both of those swords were made and I assume functioned as worthy "swords". The discussion we just had showed how to assess swords. And it sure looked for a while that the obvious and best action that a collector could take after that discussion, was waiting, saving his money, and getting a better sword. I assume that means one with a higher assessment and fewer take aways. As long as collecting standards are determined by broad the sword establishment, this is patterns will persist. Collectors who set their own standards, by for example collecting schools or lines that THEY happen to like, may be able to find reasons to acquire interesting swords that do not appeal to others. Peter

Roland and All, This has been an interesting discussion. We have all grown as a result of some expert and clear presentations.Thank you. The standards of 1) collecting, 2) of the sword market, and 3) of the collecting community all seem to becoming more concrete and clear. In this situation, I have to wonder if swords of the "middle rank" are going to fall in price. Is the middle falling out of the sword market? Peter

Forrest, My earlier quip about this smith - Nobuhide - being an optimist was based on the fact that he claimed to know of lucky days in June of 1945. There weren't many of those - at least for the Japanese. I would urge you to move slowly on rehaping the tip. There may be tempered edge still up there, Tho, in today's market, restoration would need LOTS more research and rationale.I find it interesting that the shira-saya has sayagaki to this smith. Peter

Forrest, You can read this mei with only a bit of work. I do not know who this smith was, but based on the date, he seems to have been an optimist! Peter

This thread just keeps getting better. I think there must have been international trade in Chinese sword fittings and related metal objects. But I bet that the makers of those things didn't care if their produce ended up in Japan or Tibet. In Japan, the imports had to be adjusted with ryo-hitsu etc which made them "Nanban." David's Hozon guard is one of those imports. I respect John's assessment of the age of that guard, but I would still like some hard evidence. But what about the difference between David Hozon tsuba and Fred's Tokubetsu Hozon pieces. Fred's guards are nice and the VOC auriculate guard is a classic. I believe, however, that both of Fred tsubas were made in Japan in a style that Edo period Japanese saw as "foreign". And I just suspect that is why they were considered "Special". Making an imported piece TBH might be difficult for a Shinsa team. Tampa will be great fun! Peter

David, Thank you for this wonderful discussion of “early Chinese Namban tsuba .” As a recovering Namban collector I found it very interesting. I would like to add to the discussion of Namban tsuba chronology. It seems pretty clear that at least by the Muromachi period, samurai liked to embellish their swords with diverse, even unusual, tsuba. Active trade into and across the East China Sea provided ample opportunities for exotic sword fittings to enter Japan by the mid-16th century. That trade continued through the 19th century. As a result of this trade, there might be Chinese guards that were modified for use in pre-Edo Japan, but I don’t know how we could be sure of that since the evolution of Chinese sword fittings seems very poorly known. Judgments of your tsuba seem based on intuitive assessments that it “looks” old. I don’t necessarily disagree with that point of view, I’d just like some supporting information. There is a good literature on European swords that we can use to date sword fittings made in European style. European swords did not feature closed counterguards until well into the 17th century. Dished or flat guards became standard on European swords with development of the smallsword in - let’s say - the 18th century. The bilobed tsuba that John Lissenden taught us to call “auriculate” are certainly inspired by European smallsword shells. The placement of grotesque faces at 12:00 and 6:00 echos many smallsword hilts. J. D. Aylward offered the attached chronology of smallsword shells. It suggests that bilobed tsuba – even those classified as “Early Namban” date from no earlier than the mid-1700s. Peter

Tellll us, please Peter