Peter Bleed

This has been an interesting thread, Thank you, Paul. Like, Kirill, I also immediately thought, "Hosho" - until I looked at the overall sugata. An attributio to the Nambokucho truly seems better. GREAT Images, Paul? Peter

This is turning into a rather interesting discussion. Of course "Chinese" operations can produce good stuff - including fine cutlery. The Hanwei com[nay made and marketed good reproductions that speak to collector interest in good old weapons. The attached snap shot shows a bunch of repro Bowie knives that are good enough to please modern guys who want to dress up like frontiersmen (OMG!). Apparently Hanwei also producded Japanese style swords that speak to the needs of modern guys who want to dress up and swing swords. As usual, there is no explaining taste, but this all seem laudable.We live in a Libertarian era. What seems serious to me is the sale of poorly made swords that are not clearly identified as modern repros. These swords are hurting serious interest in Japanese swords. What can we do - - - nothing beyond pursuing serious interest. Peter

I spend every Tuseday with a group of Arkansas knife makers. They have taught me a lot of about cutlery and craft. Today one of the fellows brought his collection of CHINESE Bowie knives They are all EXCELLENT copies of historic Bowie knives and they are simply terrific. They are not longer being made, but these were accurate repros of authentic historic knives. They were nicely boxed up and clearly marked with the maker's name an "Made in China." Apparently they have become rather collectible among Bowie collectors. So, if their Bowies are "good", why are the Chinese copies of Japanese swords so crappy? Peter

Thank you Ray and Grey, Indeed, I had started to search title listings for signatures that open with "Izumi...",but I was hoping that I could "crowed source" the search - by getting NMB members to join in the search. I even thought that there might be somebody within the community who would recognize the partial signature that remains. Looks like I'll have to do it myself, tho. In fact, this has turned out to be a rather interesting little project. Again, thanks. Peter

I spent the weekend at the great Little Rock Gun Show - - and I bought a sword! Trouble is, I need help with it! It is a very ordinarily mounted Shinto wakizashi that probably HAD a nice tsuba - I say "probably" because it came to me with brass non-com sword guard. The blade itself is seriously suriage saying "IZUMI.." clip.... In buying this sword I was sure that the characters in the tang were merely the "top" of a signature. And obviously Izumi no Kami Kanesada... came to mind. But I was sure that a bit of research afer getting home would narrow the list of potential smiths, but ... Izumi seems to have shared its titles - in a variety of forms - with a number of smiths.Does anybody recognize this signature? Peter

I wanted to go to Japan for the swords, but I ended up studying Jomon pottery. I saw lots of pottery but nothing like this.... https://features.japantimes.co.jp/jomon-revival/?fbclid=IwAR0RysbgE8ANKqAyXOCsvx4HNhmQE3dTRspWWd9_aDna7aGlWXkMzZ6PweQ Peter

I was WAY too timid to wade into this discussion, but I watched closely and I am glad, indeed, that we got resolution, waka, waka! Peter

Great thread, very informative! Thank you all. Peter

Chinoiserie Peter

Barry, I'm sorry that I had not seen your earlier post with references from Pier. That was a interesting thread. Peter

I, too, am not a collector of these things - - altho I seem to have ended up with some. I assume that the "value" of Japanese arms is what Japanese dealers will pay for them and my understanding is that the Japanese firearms markets goes up - - - and down. In the past, these trends were influenced by Japanese firearms policy. Sometimes things were loose and sometimes things were tight.The acceptability of other than matchlock systems also seems to blow hot and cold. The point being that dealers won't buy guns that they can't import. I am personally interested in the ways that Japanese gun were modernized in terminal Edo and early Meiji time. So, "yes" your guns are good. Thanks for showing them. Peter

terrific guard! P

I plan to sell a number of dote mimi tsuba this spring, including this one that seems relevant to this thread. Peter

Pietro, The magic books will be revealed to you - - later. To begin, I STILL think it is useful to get and study the table presented as "Appendix E" of B. W. Robinson's Arts of the Japanese sword. John Yumoto's treatment of kanji is also broadly useful. And it would help if you can get someone to explain stroke counting. And get a set of Grey Doffin's flash cards. Peter

John, I hope you will share your findings with us here on NMB. You may want to mention the export market for Japanese swords that marked the 14th to 15th centuries and that brought lots of blades to continental Asia.As i recall, there were also lots of swords exported to the New World as cane knives in the late 19th century. Good luck! Peter

very useful thread - thanx

I don't keep my stuff "on display." I put it away and enjoy "getting it out." 'Discovery' has always been my thing. I love it when people who have been in our house for a while say, "I thought you collected swords." Peter

And if you REALLY want to get serious about Bakumatsu weaponry, you should take a look at this archaeological investigation of the battlegrounds at Gyokuto. These weapons got used! Peter

And to follow on the array of Bakumatsu arms that Anthony has shown, let me append a snapshot of this carbine that has a Japanese style barrel with a nice silver bonji. Peter

The Japanese arms market was pretty interesting in Bakumatsu and early Meiji times. Clearly lots of folks were arming up at that point. I have enjoyed this thread.Please let me add to it. Colt style cap and ball pistols were not all that was in play at that time. This pin fire weapon wears an Okayama-ken registration. Peter

Could it be MICHIMASA? P

Forgive me for suggesting that DEALING in swords was a part of the the appreciation of Nippon-to. I offered this a a quip, but there is a larger point. Indeed, Japanese swords were excellent weapons. Young men trusted their lives to them. And in that situation the sword users wanted some evidence that these weapons would not let them down. To make trustworthy weapons Japanese smiths developed highly routine methods of making steel and heat treating it effectively. Those methods gave their sword visible characteristics that warriors could observe and that smiths could replicate. Japanese culture likes routine - and warriors like trustworthy weapons. Hada was a reflection of systematic production of carbon enriched iron. Hamon was a reflection of refined, systematic and controlled edge hardening. If you could SEE this stuff, you could determine that you were getting a "good" sword.es that produced Hada/Hamon are NOT unique to Japan, but they were practiced in highly routine ways in Japan. Smiths all over the pre-modern world developed means of adding a bit of carbon to iron and making the result tough enough to stand up to battle. What is UNIQUE(?) to Japan is the production of routine characteristics that let swords be objectively evaluated - visually. A sword without a HAMON might be OK, but if you are laying your life on the line, Japanese warriors wanted to see evidence of quality. A nice clear hamon could be taken as evidence that the blade was well made... Peter

I see the first signature as Bushu ju, SUKEMASA saku Peter

Effective? That is complex, but I will say they would not SELL worth a darn... Peter

This would have been an interesting bit of research. I'm sorry I didn't have my ears on. This smith seems worthy, but -well- regional. Somebody seems to have thought highly of this sword, tho, given the way the signature was treated when it was shortened. Interesting! Peter