Chango

The jigane is mokume mixed with itame and the hamon is sanbonsugi with a really nice crystalline outline (sorry I forget the proper term) that follows the the sanbonsugi unbroken down the length of the blade. It's in too rough of a polish to tell much more other than the less damaged surfaces of the blade shine like crushed diamonds when shined on by a light. I get the impression It's a high quality blade anyway but I'm no expert on the matter.

I've had this blade for several years now and have done a lot of learning, still think it might be a Katate-uchi from the 1520s...(length is 56 cm, btw) Looking for opinions on whether it could/couldn't be the work of such a big name and whether I've at least got the type/approx date nailed down or not Thanks! -Jason

Not one of the Koto Kanemotos.... would have more masame hada (straight grain) along the shinogi-ji if it was... that is if I'm seeing well enough from the pic.

I didn't bid, something seemed fishy about the whole thing (if it's too good to be true and all that). Guess my gut was right. Ebay is a damn minefield.

Comparing the origami to a couple of Nidai Kanemoto samples on AOI a bit closer and it looks kosher... seller posted a link to better pics too, btw. Can't imagine it doesn't have high reserve price or that a seller who knows what he's got would let it go for the stupid-low current bid...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Samurai-Sword-Magoroku-Kanemoto-w-NBTHK-Hozon/253687275045?hash=item3b10f09e25:g:3AgAAOSwn8pa-f2a What are the chances this one is real? Mei and origami looks right at a glance...

Not anymore scientific than driving different cars around and comparing their performance to each other, which includes raw data (0-60 time, horsepower, braking distance) and subjective data (this seat feels more comfortable, this car feels higher/lower quality, ect.) and then ranking which cars are the "best". If you want to do Science, you have to follow the scientific method, and that ain't exactly the Scientific Method. There are so many unaccounted for variables that can effect blade performance that it would be impossible to definitively verify which swords cut best simply by cutting up criminals. It's ultimately an artificial scenario that is not all that similar to real-life when you think about it; when swords were actually used in battle they were often subject to stresses unrelated to just cutting naked flesh and also had to perform under harsh conditions, variable weather/temperatures and less than ideal maintenance. Besides, by the time Yamada Asaemon put the list together in the early 1800's, Japan had been at peace for 200+ years and swords were more symbolic than practical weapons of war. Smiths had essentially forgotten how to make blades like those from the times of the Sengoku Jidai and before... that's why we distinguish between Koto and Shinto Nihonto, after all. Not saying it's totally useless information (just like car tests/reviews), it's not the "be all, end all" to determine which swords are "best". It's still cool to have a sword from a smith that was rated Saijo o wazamono and it certainly vastly increases a blade's value in today's market.

I see the list of Wazamono as the Edo era equivalent of all those "top 10 guns" or "Best cars of the year" type things you see in magazines or online today. Chopping corpses to figure out which sword cuts best is not particularly scientific so it probably isn't the best way to judge which swords are actually best. Don't forget brand name "panache" was a big thing for swordsmen back then too...

I'm pretty quiet but I still read the forums often, always lurking and learning. Thanks for sharing and happy new years to you all!

The Japanese had accounted for every last nuance of their swords long before any westerner had even seen one (and far better than could be done in any other language), so it only makes sense to use Japanese terminology. Besides, it's part of the fun! I keep a copy of Markus Sesko's encyclopedia of Nihonto terms handy on my phone... as I continue to learn and refer to it less often, sword descriptions look less like gobblygook and more like a simple but elegant system to describe a blade in extreme detail that would take 5 times more effort and space to accomplish purely in English.

I have a shinto blade that has been thinned down along the entire mune side of the blade (including the nakago), I wonder if it was a common-ish modification at some point, maybe to make the blade lighter and faster?

I think the distinction of "art sword" vs utilitarian sword is just semantics. The finest art swords in the world have likely (and still could) cut exceedingly well and who knows how many millions of cheap blades (of Japanese make or not) are on display as objets d'art in museums, businesses and teenager's bedrooms around the world. So since today's swords really only have a legitimate purpose as display pieces (apart from occasional kata practice/competition for some) I suppose it's not a question of whether a sword is art or not, but whether it's good or bad art.

Ouch... makes me appreciate living in a desert a little more.

I know it's an art sword when the Kami in it "speaks" to me and convinces me of how important it is. Too bad I'm so damn gullible! Seriously though, it's the same for me as any object of fine art... I'm impressed by something that took great skill, time and technical knowledge to produce, something with history (recorded or implied) and that hard to define gut feeling I get when beholding something special.

Not a Katateuchi, it would have to be of Muromachi era vintage (1460-1530-ish) and with a 1-handed tang to count as one. Wrong shape too.

Thanks Uwe! Maybe do both? I've already got a couple of guesses.

After "consulting the tomes" I'm placing my bet on Yasumitsu (Muromachi Oei-Bizen) Second guess Morimitsu.

Very interesting discussion! The way I see it, there are two constants in the universe. One is death, the other is that men WILL geek out over their instruments of death. Westerners have been fascinated by Japanese swords at least since the 1500s and the Asians have been for far longer. I don't see that changing anytime soon...and If anything, popular Japanese culture/history has never been more familiar to non-Japanese people, especially the younger generations growing up on a steady diet of Anime and Japanese themed video games. Try asking a group of American kids if they've heard the name Nobunaga or Miyamoto Musashi before... you might be surprised by how much Japanese history they've accidentally filled their heads with! Anyway, I don't see Nihonto ever becoming uninteresting to the masses or becoming undesirable and/or not collectable, no matter how the political winds blow. Now the Nihonto market has been quite the volatile one over the centuries so raw values will change but no one will ever be giving them away for free. That said, being a fairly new convert to Nihonto from the "reproduction world" myself makes it easy to see why there are few newcomers who stick around for the long haul... this is a pretty damn tough hobby! There is a steep learning curve, the high cost of truly good, papered blades and a glut of less than great swords along with a dearth of outright fakes on the market to be swindled by and have your enthusiasm snuffed out. I think there is also a false belief among the uninitiated that Japanese swords are great investment purchases, like gold bars or even some other fine art pieces. Americans especially go ga-ga over things that are hundreds of years old; I suppose it's because we rarely see truly old stuff over here so it's easy to tempt us newbies with an "amazing" 500 year old rusty steel bar that may or may not have been a katana at one time. So in the end, if you can't cut things in half with your Nihonto, need the equivalent of a PHD in study effort to really understand the nuances of 1000 years of Japanese sword history and the high cost of entry for swords that may or may not hold their value over your lifetime, is it any wonder there aren't potential new students lined out the door to join in the fun? That's OK though... less competition means I have at least a chance to keep scratching this weird Nihonto itch that just won't go away.

I think I can make out "Fujiwara" at least on the mei; doesn't help much as it was a common honorary title that is often seen on Shinto era katanas...

You'd think AOI would say something about a flaw as bad as that; doesn't re-tempering destroy the value? Perhaps getting that big (孫六) on the origami was all they felt they needed to make $$$.

Could be worse... right? After all, I could be fascinated by Touken Ranbu instead. But yes, I have been collecting pics and trying to understand the differences between the Kanemoto generations...

It's really more about curiosity than trying to prove that particular sword one way or another. We all know "digital shinsa" is iffy at best in most cases. I would like to get that blade polished and papered but my son is having medical issues and we're short on cash so it will probably have to wait a couple more years. Anyway, during the course of my information hunt for that blade I kept hearing (and seeing) Magoroku did a wide variety of hamon patterns apart from the artistic irregular sanbonsugi he's famous for, including regular sanbonsugi. There's a papered Magoroku tanto up for sale on AOI with regular sanbonsugi: https://www.aoijapan.com/tanto-kanemoto-magoroku This one also seems similar in pattern and quite regular: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17513/lot/3157/ There's also one that looks very regular in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Lords-Samurai-Legacy-Daimyo-Family/dp/0939117479but the picture is not large and detailed enough to get much from it. Just wondering if there are any more out there, or if maybe the pic in post #1 was an example of one.