Caleb Mok

either 沵 or 沶 for the 4th character?

first character seems to be 东...

If i may chime in...a few years ago the options for this type of blade...pattern-welded WITHOUT a hardened edge was actually common enough to...well, at least get it from Cheness and/or its distributors. I'm pretty sure it didn't sell well otherwise 1) it'd still be in stock everywhere 2) i'd see lots of raves reviews and 3)i'd actually want one myself. In terms of quality China-to is concerned (again, apples and oranges. Apples are NOT oranges...but there are both great and terrible oranges and apples) i'm pretty sure Swordbuyersguide.com was and still is the place to go. Hanwei continues to try to acquire brands as they did, which included Kaneie...which for a short-lived time(?) almost as short-lived as the Soshu, produced some great works...and then Hanwei acquired them and those great works are no more, and Hanwei and SBG and EVERYONE probably continues to struggle with the same issues that everyone faces in that market... Sorry, i digress. My point is, IMHO from my limited following the china-to market, if you wanted to trace the "lineage" of this artifact, not difficult to do; it's is NOT a Marquis Yi or a Pre-whatever period hi-quality Kaneie that has both pattern welding AND differentially hardened edge which are much, much more rare and difficult to acquire, than the much more common and economically successful mono-steel diff hardened with real hamon, and, for a very short while, pattern-welded no-hamon no-hard-edge. The way the copper is stamped too is a dead giveaway that it is mass-produced. SO NOW THAT WE ALL ALREADY OBVIOUSLY KNOW IT'S CHINA-TO WHAT IS YOUR POINT CALEB? Just wanted to say two things: 1) Thank goodness it's still extremely difficult to import fakes INTO Japan and then export them. My aunt who ran a small clothing business here in HK said that among the many things we have to deal with in order for her business to survive competition with ourselves i.e. the mainland Chinese...is the fact that we'd make a whole bunch of clothes, ship them to South Korea, hire a *GENUINE* Korean guy to sell them at a legit location in Korea and claim that they are ~genuinely made in South Korea~ and therefore costs a lot more--implying better-than-China quality (which, if you think about it, is a stupid idea in its own right)--and make a whole bunch of profits from--you guessed it--Mainland Chinese tourists. The fakers have infiltrated the US too, so perhaps we can tell our friends new to collecting, who may be shopping on Ebay: "Just because an item does NOT come out of China, doesn't mean it's genuine...better yet, make sure the item is from Japan *WITH* THE DOROKUSHO ***AND*** THE LISTING SAYS IT'LL TAKE WEEKS to get the sword cleared with the police." Better yet, just tell them "It took Caleb 6 years, $10000+ USD on non-papered, unpolished swords and a lot of regret to finally learn that he should have saved it for ONE SINGLE JUYO (or two) for his one lifetime and a lot of books instead" 2) IMHO it is not a "good" fake if you consider how ridiculously easy it is to reveal a fake and its implication on profit. Theoretically the fakers ~can~ fake tamahagane and make a high-quality sword out of that AND give it a polish that shows the hada/hamon...but wouldn't that instantly skyrocket the price? Even the ~$2000 USD Marquis Yi does NOT have a full polish...i think the full-polish Kaneie are $3000 USD but because it is mono-steel jihada i.e. jihada caused by alloy banding/thermal cycling of a monosteel rather than folding, its aesthetic appeal is IMHO less than bottom-tier Shinshinto/typical Showa-to with clear jihada...and some poor guy spent ALL that time polishing it without acids. I mean, if i were faking a sword, i may as well sell it as a legit repro: i'm sure i'd get more money than trying to sell it as some shady rip-off on Ebay. The sword here is CHEAP to manufacture (despite ALL that time spent on the signature LOL): Just stack a whole bunch of 1060/1095/(and 1080 too?) weld them together, shape them into a sword pretty much it......***AND IT REALLY SHOWS!!!!!!*** So even *IF* it is a genuine Nihonto, why would i want to buy that? And if it is something more, wouldn't it be more expensive anyway? It doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense... But whereas i might (?) be able to deliver my pitch to some...guy, on how faking a bunch of tsuba/tosogu ~might~ somehow result in a big wad of ca$h, it's still pretty safe (?) to presume it will continue to be pretty hard to fake genuine, polished, non-fire destroyed Nihonto? Please just save money for a Juyo instead. Caleb DEEEAD GIVEAWAY! DEEEAD GIVEAWAY! (Oh if there is a god then may God bless Schmoyoho...)

When i was in first year Architecture we were taught to differentiate between the "formal" and "contextual" attributes of a work e.g., from a formalist point of view: a certain handkerchief was "made of x-amount of woven cotton and dyed with a fabric dye of x composition, usually circulated for a few dollars"; from a contextual point of view: "if the handkerchief was certified used by Justin Bieber then it is very valuable"... IF you are interested in the FORMAL attributes of Nihonto, you might want to be familiar with these ~colors~. I am very noob so the following is probably very wrong...but i've read enough info re the subject to know that the following is not available on the net and it ~is~ actually important so take it or leave it. Now, the six colors: 1) WHITE: weld gaps. When you glue two boards together, you don't need 100% of the surfaces glued for them to stay sticking...layers of steel prior to welding can be covered with oxides...when they are squish-welded together, some of those oxides are trapped between the layers. They are then (probably) evenly distributed throughout the "seam" via squishing, and then reacts with the carbon in the steel boards or ash slurry to form carbon monoxide such that at these seams the gas enters the more-or-less liquid steel as bubbles so you'd get a ~spongy*~ but thoroughly stuck together weld--rather than a weld of solid, bubble-less stuff, but also having many tiny rocks i.e. FeO inclusions that that are not stuck together with the steel (i.e. you cannot weld metal to a glass; only metals to metals, glasses to glasses) The layers of these spongy, less-dense welded-steel are often very thin/non-existent in better work, so these weld gaps often do not form solid bands like damascus steel, but they will look like short strokes, swirls, even dots, or are just not there because of zero "spongyness" *It has been said that only molecules small enough e.g. C, N, H can fit inside the voids in the BCC/FCC iron matrix...but that clearly ignores the fact that atomic radii is not the same as atomic size...sources quote C and CO as having atomic radii of .92 and 1.16 angstroms resp. At welding temps the voids probably enlarge...how else do you explain basically perfect welds with no oxides without vacuum/inert gas environment? 2) LIGHT GREY: Soft pearlite. Probably 3) DARK GREY: Soft bainite. Probably (if you actually heated home-made knife with hamon just to see what happens to the hamon, you'd know it disappears, but if you go over it with hazuya, the ji will still frost more than the ha as it did before. So the description of "tempered martensite" of bainite fits the description well) 4) BLACK: Hard martensite per "Craft of Japanse Sword etc." Note: if a traditional i.e. not-modern sashikomi style polish is available for viewing, ALL of the Ha should in fact be this color i.e. much darker and reflective than the Ji...unless 50 years go by...... 5) IRIDESCENT i.e. invisble: shiny martensite disco balls surrounded by not-shiny pearlite, like metallic paint. Like how nacre is shiny because of structural interference and you can't really polish it to "flatten" its microscopic structure into a singular, non-iridescent color, the IRIDESCENT stuff in the hamon, utsuri*, yubashiri, matsukawa hada, jifu(?) etc. will only be visible when viewed at a certain angle with directional, specular lighting. It is literally invisible unless directly illuminated at an angle; if you can see it, it's NOT iridescent (in an evenly lit "omni" light without generating any kind of "glare"). *yes i realise it was proven by some Japanse guy that the hamon and utsuri is not the same substance...both are nonetheless iridescent though. 6) frosted light grey: in Hadori and Modern-Sashikomi style polishing, the ha gets special treatment and is deliberately given more treatment aimed at making it more matte and light. If this lightening effect extends from the ha, into the hamon, and then into the ji...this portion of the ji will look much whiter than EVERYTHING ELSE. Had this lightening effect been not used i.e. traditional sashikomi, "frosted light grey" would have been the same as either LIGHT GREY or DARK GREY; if there are WHITE streaks *inside* the "frosted light grey", then this specific WHITE is indeed, when compared to the whole, the whitest thing. It is extremely important to remember--because i swear so many people i know in real life but not on the web have made this mistake--that the "white pattern" that is whiter than everything else is NOT the hamon; the very border BETWEEN the "frosted light grey" and the "frosted dark grey" is the habuchi/nioi-guchi: what's "under" it i.e. extending from the habuchi towards the ha-saki terminus, is the actual hamon of nie/nioi and it is normally invisible. (sorry for reiterating the obvious to many of you) 7) frosted dark grey: what should have been BLACK, but appearing less so because it is superficially lightened. Note: if the same stone goes over both hard and soft steel, the soft stuff is always lighter and more matte than the hard. In either the The-New-Generation-of-something-of-Japanese-Smiths-yadda-yadda or Modern-something-yadda-yadda (i call them the blue and red one because they recycle much of the info for each book) A polisher was interviewed and said many new collectors like a "rough" hada because it seems interesting, but is devoid of nie and poorly welded. I would interpret that it has a lot of WHITE. On the other hand, he said Kokuho-level koto have tight welds making them look like Shinsakuto. So "workmanship" would see to suggest ~as little 1)WHITE as possible~ while simultaneously being ~as much 4)BLACK and 5)IRIDESCENT as possible. Norishige was hailed for having so much iridescence everywhere that it is difficult to differentiate exactly where ji ends and ha starts; profuse ji-nie is usually celebrated, and whatever forms they take--streaks, dots, LARGE dots, large DARK dots, dots with iridescence surrounding it/etc--it seems the more the better. A "clear" jihada probably means a good contrast between 2) and 3), because shingane in my viewing experience is always either 2) or 3) but not both. It is a good thing to note that "Rai Hada", though bad, will ~still~ be of higher quality i.e. probably having better 2)'s and 3)'s than shingane. Utsuri is celebrated: they take form as a large masses of iridescence above the hamon, and can be judged as ~how~ strongly iridescent. Like the hamon, which, generally speaking, should also be as bright as possible based on scientific principles (i'm not going to go into it) but complexity is also at play: things like juko-choji, consistent and long sanjoba's, koshiba and jifu/kage/etc. utsuri is hailed as difficult and being able to master controlling it is evidence that...the rest of the not-so-smart can't so haha-i-am-better-than-you! and therefore those who can are better just because...withOUT compromising functionality e.g. kikusui hamon is not universally praised, but it definitely is more "complex". In all these examples, superior "craftsmanship" can be explained in formalist, it's-either-there-or-not, terms...... Insofar that a "functional metal artwork" actually CAN fulfill its intended function without breaking, we are NOT really interested in its utilitarian cheapness/greatness, but rather, its aesthetic/artistic cheapness/greatness i.e. we collect weapons that are also art, not just weapons...made-in-China swords, among others, are little-if-anything-recognised-by-a-significant-$market$ more than mere weapons. Even though it was said that the Soshu swords were compared to the atomic bomb in that they suddenly appeared and quickly outclassed everything else...it is difficult, if not impossible, to test the "deadliness" of a "generic-Amakuni" vs "generic-Akihiro tachi" vs a "generic-sanbonsugi tachi" because, simply, ~nobody does that~. Well, doesn't help that Akihiro tachi doesn't exist (?) either. (I'm pretty sure Amakuni doesn't...if it does, then i'm pretty sure the Kusanagi doesn't. If EVEN *IT* does, then i'm pretty sure Susanoo's sword doesn't exist...unless you have the Mangekyo Sharingan) It is VERY important IMHO that anyone wanting to pursue Nihonto as a hobby/study to remember that Nihonto is primarily a CONTEXTUAL art; furthermore, IMHO it is very important that anyone wanting to pursue human existence as a deliberate activity to remember that living is primarily CONTEXTUAL. Similar to racism, where peoples are deemed trash--without evening looking at them--simply because they are contextually Asian/Black/White/etc, (alphabetical order) in Nihonto there are things like "a polish by a non-traditionally trained polish is ALWAYS detrimental"--you don't even need to look at it...to discuss the formalistic, so-called "merits" i.e. the lack of, of such a polish because it's like apples and oranges: you may have the best orange in the world, but we want apples. From time to time one will read, "In respect to the brightness of hamon, Nagamitsu is equal to Mitsutada. But in the clearness of the Ji, Mitsutada is superior". For most of us, IMHO it's intuitive that a bright hamon looks better than a weak one; when i saw one to which my reaction was, "Holy cow i can see it all the way from here!" It was a humbling experience that filled me with a very enjoyable sense of gratefulness. But that may ~not~ be your experience. Well if not, then i think you're screwed. Because it seems to me that's what many of us seem to be after. So to answer the question "if I were to compare a Muramasa vs an exemplar juyo sword", IMHO the answer is simply "what would the NBTHK say?" If one's kantei scores are SO HIGH and one's knowledge so comprehensive and one's library so full of books re. crucial info that many of us will never, EVAR get access to, such that one can confidently say "if i were a NBTHK judge i would say it is..." and if the Toko Taikan never, ever gets amended ever again, it is really only then that IMHO any meaningful answers re craftsmanship can be disseminated. Until one is EXTREMELY knowledgable, IMHO one just simply ~cannot~ engage Nihonto from the purely formalist angle of "craftsmanship" although i totally see why one would want to. Just my opinion; yes i know that because i am a noob the above is bound to be flat out incorrect. You can correct me, but i will never respond! -Caleb

Oh wait, maybe one more http://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/648.html

This one is good too, but it is Nanbo/Muro...easier recognised ayasugi http://isejinguu.gambler55.com/wp/?p=59711 This one much better because the signature is so similar to the one on sho-shin http://toyuukai.com/2015/10/%E5%A4%AA%E5%88%80%E5%AE%9D%E5%AF%BF/ And finally, i am getting really quite desperate with this one http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tcOht3uI48kJ:aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/o73213118/+&cd=4&hl=zh-TW&ct=clnk&gl=tw

I think (?) this one counts, late Kama/early Nanbo, but with Mokume hada... http://www.taiseido.biz/cn11/cn22/pg553.html And if you search just 寳壽 綾杉 i.e .houju ayasugi, you get this among others: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/obugyo-sama/e/73bc15a991a6e15379c3250eb0b88dd4 hope that helps -Caleb

Just got back into trying to monitor Ebay trends and IMHO within the arena of no paper/polish/shirasaya showa-or-later with some kind of a fitting...lots are being bidded for $600 USD or more. Just so we're on the same page here: a sword with some ~mystery factor~ could potentially fetch shinto/shinshinto or maybe even koto prices i.e. much higher than $400, and once upon a time highly-likely shinto's were in my experience frequently sold within the $600 USD mark, with the implication that swords without any mystery factor i.e. *confirmed* showa/gunto were considerably less...in one case $250. Those days are years behind us...but that does sort of mean your purchase can be deemed quite "good" when compared with the bids that people with no stars are bidding nowadays on Ebay for gunto in general. I'm not trying to diss the people starting out, but seriously, it's hard not to note people with many stars have "activity with this seller" being like 5% or less whereas people without is like 25% or even 50%... well, if they throw everything into one or two baskets, they'll get ~something~ i guess... For fun, you could throw it on Ebay and have a "Buy it Now" price for $2000 USD and see what offers you get...just make sure you block out places "like" China and others. (i am Chinese and therefore i am certified not racist in saying this ~_~ )...or even better, put it to FS here and you might be surprised what you'll be offered. In short, i think you got a good deal, and if you don't have huge sentimental attachments to it you should sell it ASAP before the market re-adjusts itself. Ebay is FLOODED with crap right now IMHO with no shortage of people buying them so the thing to hope for is that this will drive up the price for everything, not just for the crap. Helps too that at least Canada and Japan are kinda out of the buying picture right now because of their weak dollars: in addition to the $1000 gunto's that are being sold on Ebay right now, some $2000 or $3000 purchases ~would~ have put a "roof" as to how much someone "should" pay for a gunto and therefore conclude that your item "shouldn't" be worth more than $400. But, especially with the weak yen, on Ebay at least IMHO, that "roof" is gone and people are going nuts for everything (?) ~ $1500 and under IMHO so you might want to take advantage of that asap right now. When the market, at least for the Ebay market, has more variety again and $3000 purchases are common again people might "rationalise" and pay less for gunto IMHO...but until then, IMHO sky's definitely the limit for anything the first-time buyer is willing to bid

I've tried pine, didn't like it for too soft. I spend all that time getting the fit and snug with the habaki perfect...only for it to loosen so quickly. And then there's susceptibility to warp. Granted, katana-sized magnolia from Namikawa heibei is often twisted and requires winding sticks to correct etc...but if even fairly straight grained stuff that i'd presume be air dried for longer periods than other, more regular (?) stuff gets twisted, how much more the other stuff. Per usual, their katana-sized stuff is "out of stock" and i don't know how easy it is to get some despite the fact anymore...haven't made an order for years. My main concern is your saya-nomi though. I actually bought those outrageous $150 USD saya-nomi's from Japanwoodworker.com. Aside from the minor but very obvious detail that the steel was clearly not hardened that hard, I think they were 14" long? Not long enough IMHO... made some 18" myself and they were much better. You might have to experiment with sharpening angle too...30 degrees is ideal and what IMHO you'd use if you're really good...but for yours humbly i find that 35 degrees forces you to exert more force and its ability to automatically dig itself into the wood a bit better, something that ~may~ be beneficial.

Well if you can do research and photography as well as Darcy, then i'll be directing all my friends to not only Darcy's site from now on, but also yours and obviously with my highest praise. They may not ~buy~, but they'll probably learn...which seems to be your goal

Well, the bright side is, if Hamfish does valiantly make the decision to give this blade the treatment it deserves* , then he will be FORCED to hold onto it for a while and by then the market may increse because of the long waiting lists! -Caleb edit: if you get it done thru kunitaro-san, it ~may~ cost less than $3k and the turn around time is very quick. Still, SwordGuy's got a point though... *i don't mean that sarcastically, i think such $$$ decisions improves the collecting world as whole and should be recognised

PM sent thx (in case it as missed)

I have a better idea: i'll just go to Darcy's site! Tomonari, Mitsutada, Kanemitsu, Awataguchi, Ayanokoji, Shizu Kaneuji, Norishige, Sadamune, Yukimitsu...it's got them all!--in great magnification and resolution! All he needs now is a den Masamune! (and that Yoshimitsu tanto i was hoping to see )

Honestly i.e. without trying to hide ignorance i think it is a ~soft high grit~ stone finish. A "Nubatama 15000 grit stone" (intended for tools NOT swords) among others will make a hocho's cladding, soft steel EXTREMELY matte and white, and the hard cutting steel rather mirror-like. As high grit stones cannot effectively removing pitting, that would explain why al of it is still there. (as to why the pitting is so everywhere and uniform i don't know...i've never seen it myself but then i've never seen anything ) I was of the opinion that acid will make the ha more matte than this; please educate me if this is wrong -Caleb

Oh right, sorry, off topic. I guess the culprit here has less to do with anything other than the nugui itself and the acid. Still, what i guess i was getting at is i think it's impressive when someone deliberately ~presents~ a sword with his/her skill with subtlety as though confidently knowing "the hamon's there you only have to look...i don't care if people say 'i can't see it!' If they can't this piece is not for them." As opposed to saying 'i need to cater to my intended demographic'. -Caleb

In Art of Japanese Sword Polishing, Master Takaiwa is somehow (?!) able to turn super-rough, course/wide/deep weld-gap lines, probably god-awful hada into something that looks refined and serene. He did this in 2 stages ie in a progression, and IMHO the subtlety this *NON* black&white approach is uber sexy. But then, one cannot generalise...i guess that's again why only traditionally trained polishers (who knows kantei) can do traditionally trained work -Caleb

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Koto-Shinto-Wakizashi-Nihinto-Japanese-Sword-/171980560755?hash=item280ad71973:g:rwAAAOSw~bFWI8sH Personally never seen a sashikomi with such dark ji and such white ha. Common? Traditionally trained work? Photography? Thanks, Caleb

Anyone else think the hi in the tang of #4 (presumably O-suriage because 3 out of 4 isn't bad) is not koshi-sori enough to be kamakura?

I will change my prediction then: no koto, all shinto and after... Even a meiji-to, heck, even a showa-to!

(Please forgive the GNNARRRRR! my ignorance may give) 4 is the only pre-Muro Koto; all others are shinto or later because of funbari. I think "the one exception not O-suriage" is either 1 or 2...it may be a "trick" i.e. ~not O-suriage, but suriage~. If the exception really is either 1 or 2, i'd have to go with 2 because the kissaki has less fukura, and the funbari is slightly less (though still very noticeable) in which case it is mid-Muro or late-Muro because i don't know why it looks a little saki-sori to me... And 2 can't possibly be a real O-suriage Nanbokucho simply because they do not exist/are very rare i.e. i'm purposely being an idiot and i'm ~feeeeel'n lucky~ -Caleb EDIT: nevermind, 1 is ubu, 2 is O-suriage mid/late Muro

(I am a noob) But I call shinto and not shin-shinto. IMHO quite obvious mixing of different steels. I know they do that in shinshinto too (?) but my hunch...shinto. It seems that often jihada follows this pattern: white streaks, surrounded by dark streaks, then medium background...NOT white streaks, medium background then dark streaks. During the folds the billet absorbs extra carbon from the ash, simultaneously preventing oxidation and also making steel in general more "runny" e.g. cast iron thus easier to weld. But the weld is seldom ever complete i.e. you can glue two boards together with only 50% of their surface areas glued and they will still stick together despite bending/stresses/compression etc. The incomplete welds show up as streaks and, because it has "less stuff", the polishing process turns them into valleys of matte white. Once ji-to/jizuya makes everything ELSE dark, the white streaks are more visible. Because the white streaks are surrounded by higher carbon, nie (may) form... One shinto i had, had a "layer pattern" that looks EXACTLY like this...but, in alternating bands of light and dark, there was actually dark nie between them...and some white streaks. This sword, however, i'm betting it won't even with polish. In fact I remember my friend said this is called hada-mono i.e. "damascus pattern" and is not a good thing, but that was produced during other times not Shinto. Regardless, the kissaki seems to be reshaped from chu to exaggerated (non-historical except Kiyomaro?) O-kissaki to simultaneously look cool and rare AND mask the minimal yakiba that is left at the kissaki-point terminus (sorry i know it's called something else...sorry. Had the kissaki been chu/ko, the minimalness of it would be more obvious. But by reshaping it into exaggerated O, the profile would appear ~streamlined~ "with" the boshi/hamon, and the gradation from minimal-nothingness to the rest of the blade that actually has more yakiba left...this gradation would be more gradual as there would be more nagasa to spread it. Minimal yakiba left at the point terminus, i would imagine, is something many of us see very often and is not really that shameful at all...kissaki's break. A LOT. I think it's possible that, instead of FeCl, STRAIGHT Hcl may have been used to whiten ONLY the hamon. Synthetics make a burnishing "scraping cut"; naturals make a matte "crushing" cut. The jihada was NOT properly brought out with the crushing cut to work harden the jie nie so that eventually they will resist becoming matte even with the softest stones. If etching is done at this point it would look, i'd imagine, quite ugly even despite the hada-mono construction. That, IMHO, is this polish's saving grace: if the jihada was indeed etched and i am wrong, at least it doesn't make it look even MORE like China-to (as many here noted) because you'd have etching (which makes jihada look like damascus) ON TOP of hada-mono. (!)

Ohh pls don't do it... Better stuff even on Ebay. The guaranteed-not-koto alone makes it not worthy of $350 USD in Ebay standards had not for the IMHO genuine signature...but that's IGNORING the shinae. Oddly enough, there is ~possibility~ shinae can be fixed i.e. hagire/nioi gire can NEVER be whereas with shinae there is hope. I second that nice shirasaya too..... What i'm saying is, many years ago $400 USD got me a 18" koto mumei wakizashi with choji hamon with masame hada and profuse i.e. 1.5" and longer singular lines of kinsuji on Ebay...and these deals are still there from time to time. So compared to that: What i have ($400): Pros - guaranteed no shinae - not guaranteed non-koto - poor polish drove the price down (it cost me the same for traditional polish regardless how good/bad it was then) Cons - guaranteed no signature - guaranteed no nice shirasaya - maybe non-existent jihada/ji-nie (which turned out to be really good hada) What you may have ($350) Pros - guaranteed signature - guaranteed nice shirasaya - guaranteed jihada (but IMHO poor jihada) - maybe kin-kise habaki implying sword was valued...but the rationale is lost to me. Even if for the signature it's not like the den is famously recognisable (sorry, i am completely ignorant about anything non-koto) Cons - guaranteed shinae - extremely unlike to be koto (maybe really late Muro) - good-ish polish drove the price up (it will cost you the same for traditional polish regardless how good/bad it is now) I'd strongly recommend that you be as patient as you can i.e. get more comparables -Caleb

late Showa...reminds me of a sword i had.

Sorry i edited my post instead of posting new because i didn't want my noob-ignorant posts everywhere...but i think that led to my edited comment becoming unnoticed, which though a good thing i.e. no one wants to hear a noob chime, i wanted to ask: Does the meguki-ana being drilled/lathed/ or punched into perfectly circle or ~organic~ -looking holes ~actually~ hold any weight to age? Thanks - Caleb

Based on Markus Sesko's invaluable work to which i am sure many of us are most grateful, it appears to be an early Muromachi work. I quote his website...I hope this is allowed "The late Nanbokuchô period brought a turning away from the exaggerated mid-Nanbokuchô blade shapes. That means tachi still have a rather long nagasa and a shallow toriizori but the kasane increases a bit, the blades taper again, and the tip returns to a chû-kissaki" As for anything beyond that, let's just say every time i try to give myself kantei when looking at pics of swords, i am almost always wrong. Therefore I must refer you to a much better source: http://markussesko.com/kantei/ -Caleb EDIT: oops, totally missed the moto/saki gasane. Very improbably koto then...would also explain the perfectly lathed/drilled i.e. not punched holes and the jihada that looks very, very not koto i.e. lacking nie/chikei.