JH Lee

Thomas, thank you so much for that illustration. It definitely helps a lot. As always, I'm blown away by the amount of knowledge on this forum!

Thank you for those pictures, Robert! I think I have a much better understanding of what to look for now. Chris, would a oil-quenched mill steel showato by the 23rd Kanefusa be of any higher quality or durability than other similarly oil-quenched showato made by less well-known smiths? How would such a blade compare against, say, a Nagamitsu? I know that the former is not gendaito/nihonto and therefore of little interest as an object of art (only as militaria)... Having satisfied my curiosity about Kanefusa/Kenbo-midare, I'm now trying to get a better sense of how to think about relative qualities across blades from this era, and whether even a non-traditional blade by the 23rd Kanefusa would be worth adding to my collection. From what I've read on Rich Stein's site, he seems to have been pretty accomplished. And I am still kicking myself for having missed out at the last second on the Nagamitsu you had on eBay....

Thank you, Chris and Jussi. I definitely see what you mean in those photos by the rounded peaks. But I guess I'm not yet seeing how the roundness of those peaks are so distinct that I would be able to recognize it (without the mei) and think to myself "Ah ha! That must be from such-and-such school/influence." More study/practice is needed I guess... Any more photos would be most appreciated. Also, speaking of this school-- From what I've gathered, there's somewhat of a "gap" in the lineage from the origins... which was then revived/reclaimed by a biological descendant of the family as the 23rd Kanefusa, who was a prolific (and well regarded) Showa smith. Since then, the line has resumed(?) with the 24th, 25th, and now 26th Kanefusa smiths. I am wondering how faithfully/accurately was the style and technique transmitted and resumed by the 23rd Kanefusa? http://www.nipponto.com/Sword/detailkanefusa.html

I'm trying to find representative photo(s) of the "Kanefusa midare" style hamon. I have seen various photos on-line, with the description that it was a unique style/innovation at the time that distinguished that school. However, I am having a difficult time understanding the "essence" of the pattern, because there seems to be little consistency (to my untrained eyes) across the photos that I have seen so far. Thank you in advance for any help in furthering my understanding.

Thank you so much, Gabriel! So, in short, there is nothing unusual or deficient about my sword just because its sakihaba is ~1.95cm.... Good to know.

Yes, I am sure I meant sakihaba.... Gabriel, the average across 600 daito-- was that among very old antiques? I ask because many antiques may have been so polished over time that they have lost their original appearance/dimensions; which would then skew the average figures....

So, I have a Koa Isshin Mantetsu katana, which is my first from this period in history. Since it is a relatively recent sword, and moreover made during wartime, I thought that it would appear quite robust and healthy. And from what I have read, these swords are most well known for their non-traditional engineering and cutting ability. Yet the sakihaba is only ~1.95cm. Given its current condition, I do not believe that the blade has ever been repolished, and the suguha hamon is uniform through to the kissaki. Everything looks fine... only the tip is much smaller than I thought it would be. On average, I have seen that well-preserved antique and also gendai/shinsakuto have sakihaba of around 2.4cm+. Yet every Koa Isshin I have seen on-line (including my own) have sakihaba of only around 2cm or slightly less. The Ohmura article makes mention of another Koa Isshin being mistaken for a Tadayoshi of Hizen.... and some Tadayoshi I have seen on the internet have also had ~2cm sakihaba. Is it at all unusual for a Japanese sword to have ~2cm sakihaba on katana-length blades? That is, not worn/tired antiques but such relatively narrow sakihaba as new blade, by design? Were there period of Japanese sword making or "school" where such narrower profile blade was the norm? Thank you all in advance for the opportunity for further learning.

Whatever else may be said about the sale, the only thing I find really disturbing about all this is the vindictive hysterics and foot-stomping temper tantrum going on throughout the thread. The point has been made several times over... and could/should have been made in a much more calm, mature, and informative manner. What exactly are we belaboring at this point and toward what ends?

It seems like this section of NMB has a great deal of valuable information to identify the "bad guys"-- the forgers, liars, thieves, and generic miscreants, etc. If it is OK with the admin and do not violate any of the forum rules, could we please also have a sticky-ed list of the established "Good Guys"? Perhaps links to the pages of the tosho in Japan would be great too. Please only mention those persons/dealers with whom you have personally had fair/honest and reliable transactions. For example, I have purchased a kozuka and some menuki and a fuchi-kashira set from Aoi-Art in the past. I would consider it a valuable public service to newbies like me who need help avoiding rip off's, scams, etc. by going directly to the trustworthy sources. Locations would be great too. Obviously, this wouldn't be fool proof, and people must still do their own homework. But I thought it may be a good starting place for getting a sense of the overall landscape of what is available and from whom. So, I would like to kick off this list by saying that I have purchased from them and would likely do so again someday. http://www.aoijapan.com/ ("Aoi-Art"; located in Japan)

Thank you for all of your insights and feedback, everyone. I am really humbled by the level of knowledge that some of you have achieved-- while still considering yourselves mere beginners. Ordinarily, I might cynically assume that such is mere pretense/faux humility; but having gotten a glimpse of just what is actually involved... I realize that they could be regarded as understatements. I hope to one day meet some of you at a sword show.

Wasn't sure if this belonged in the Izakaya lounge-- But the question is Nihonto related. How long did it take for you to become a reasonably proficient/knowledgeable collector? Yes... I realize that "proficient" and "knowledgeable" are subjective, relative terms, and probably the time frame depends on other variables like interest, opportunity, natural talent, and personal dedication. Still, I would appreciate very much hearing from your personal experiences. The reason I am asking is because I find myself utterly overwhelmed and, frankly, severely discouraged by the mountains of information ahead of me. I could imagine this being an academic field in its own right, with the terminal degree being a PhD, with MA-level specialties for every aspect of the sword and koshirae. I thought I was finally getting a handle on just being able to name the different hamon types at a glance, and distinguishing nie from nioi, appreciating utsuri, etc.... but then, I couldn't even visually identify what sunagashi or kinsuji was and was ready to give up on a sword because I thought they meant a terrible flaw. Who knows? Maybe what I thought was utsuri was actually evidence of poor quenching or over-hardening. And today, I realized that just understanding menuki... all the different schools, styles, makers throughout history.... not to mention evaluating their current condition and distinguishing modern/artificial from authentic/"natural" patination on kodogu.... Maybe I should just leave this expertise to the experts. I think I'm a reasonably intelligent fellow. But I already have a day job (which I'm proud to say I am very good at)... not sure if I could ever develop the level of knowledge that seasoned collectors and dealers on NMB have, unless I could invest huge amount of time and effort to learning. And so, I am hoping to get a sense of the scale of that time/effort required. Moderator, please feel free to relocate this thread if it doesn't belong here.

Sorry if people are tired of hearing about the antics that can happen on eBay. Seems like it's not really news around here. Anyway, this seller "changning34815" in Tibet/China (that alone has warning bells going off) is selling things that look like it was directly copy-pasted from "showa22" stuff. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-WWll-N ... 1337395811 Recent negative feedback on Apr 25, 2014 (all caps not mine): "I BOUGHT THE SWORD THEN HE SAID HE CANT GET IT THROUGH CUSTOMS! LIAR" I don't understand why people are bidding on these... or if that can be faked as well. Is that what's called "shill bidding"? From what I could tell, Showa22 doesn't have a good reputation either. I wonder if it's karma... or the two sellers are related somehow...

You are all (or as we say in the US/Midwest; "Y'all are") too awesome for words.

Thank you so much everyone! Once again, I find myself indebted to your greater knowledge and expertise! Like a first-year psych student who self-diagnoses (incorrectly) with all of the terrible mental illnesses he is studying, I guess I got carried away with unnecessary concern after being able to correctly identify a spot or two of kitae-kizu (and I know I got that one right! alright! go me!).... and mistakenly thought that the sunagashi and kinsuji were also in the same vein of flaws! I had just never seen anything like this before. But now I realize, that this is part of the difference in learning from actually seeing blades in person (with all of your guidance) vs. only browsing pictures on the internet... I need to order the proper tsuka removing tool before I could tell you the maker for certain. Well, more like take a picture and then ask you guys what the nakago says. While I am just a beginner in the study of nihonto, I am definitely not foolish enough to *force* the tsuka off (or start whacking at it with a hammer or something crazy). Maybe I am being overly cautious, but better safe than sorry I always say!

Ah... so it's not necessarily a bad thing then? If so, that's a relief! Although... that boundary effect isn't so pronounced on the other side of the blade. Maybe it's due to the poor state of polish? Or did things not get... um... sandwiched(?) in lamination properly? I'd love to tell you the maker... but the tsuka seems really stubbornly attached to the nakago. It'll take a lot more courage and skill before I can ease it off... somehow... especially without damaging the wooden core. Then, I can take a picture of the nakago. In the meantime, I just really want to get better at identifying things in nihonto visually. Thank goodness for this board! Like with anything, I think it'll take a lot of practice. It almost feels like I'm a child, learning to read for the first time. :D

OK, let's try this again. Is this weird to anyone else but me? Why is... what... what am I seeing here?? To anyone wondering, the blade in this thread is not the tachi with horimono (my other thread). That one is really growing on me. What a gorgeous blade she is... ware and all...

I apologize... but I think I am creating more confusion with my poor photography skills/inexperience taking pictures of nihonto. To take pictures like some people... like Darcy Brockbank, one realizes it is an art in itself. Anyway, I think it is necessary for me to try to take and upload better photos. Again, I apologize for being skeptical (especially for a newbie), but my "gut" keeps telling me that these things I am seeing cannot possibly be desirable in a nihonto..... I will do my best to take better photos soon. In the meantime, thank you to those who have already replied!

And I obviously don't have the right technique in photographing these swords. :/ Here is another. Is this just a harmless kitae-ware? Or is it something more "fatal"? How can I tell the difference?

In an effort to better understand how to view "activity" in the steel... I must your opinions ask about the following attachments. What exactly is happening? Somehow, the fact that the yakiba/hamon coincide so precisely with the fold in the steel, and only at this particular point in the sword, makes me think that it wasn't deliberate? Was this a mistake during quenching/tempering? Please correct me if I'm completely and utterly off the mark. I am here to learn. Thank you.

Clearly, I got stuck at #1. But I shall endeavor to do #2 ~ #4 in the future. Still, all things considered, I think this is quite a beautiful blade with a lot of presence and character. After I "ooh" and "ahh" at it some more, show it around to some friends at the local university who can help tutor me in some of the finer points of sword appreciation... it'll find its way to the classifieds here, where I hope to get at least some of my money back (don't worry, I know I won't get the full $5K by far). And next time, I'll definitely seek a lot of feedback here before I buy.

It wasn't through eBay.... Just a private transaction between individuals, so no return policy. But I'm a firm believer in "caveat emptor." If there are unsatisfactory elements to the blade, it is my own fault for not asking for more detailed photographs. All things considered... even with the oddities (horimono too far forward) and flaws (tate-ware as well as a shinogi-ware)... it really is quite a spectacular blade to behold. I'd even go so far as to use the word "beautiful." But such things are in the eyes of the beholder. I think this sword has a lot of what I'd call "character." And I think it will be a good "teacher" for me about how to appreciate and handle such things in person before it finds a new home. Ironically, now I am enjoying the side without the horimono, even though that was what initially drew me to this blade. Go figure!

Well, I spent some time with it today, after removing it from the package and cleaning it. Immediately jumping out at me were two huge flaws on the side of the blade with the horimono, near the tip of the blade. For 5K, I was honestly expecting better.... Although I know some of you have spent just that much on supreme kodogu (probably a better investment). I think I just had a very expensive lesson not to get dazzled by things like horimono. Now that I've identified some of the major flaws in the blade, I am going to spend a few days trying to see the good and learn what I can before passing it on in the classifieds here (with a suitable donation, of course). So, stay tuned for that if you're interested. Clearly, I'm not going to get my investment out of it. But live and learn....

This sword FINALLY arrived!!! Whew. Patience is definitely a huge part of this particular obsession/hobby.

Incredible! I just joined this board, and I am already blown away/thoroughly humbled by the incredible knowledge and helpfulness from people. I hope one day, I will be even 10% as knowledgeable as you all. But I suppose that will not be possible as long as I cannot read/write Japanese. :?

Thank you!!!