bobtail44

Hello Bobtail, Thank you for your frank opinion. The original price is 5500$, when I asked if 4500$ is possible, the seller accepted my offer. So I don't know if it really cost that or it may costs less, since the seller accpeted my offer without negociating. However, I cannot find on any site which offer interesting Nihonto under 3000$. Maybe I haven't search enough. There are sure some very nice 1600-1800 Nihonto which are made by top notch smith and which have the sharpest cutting performance. They were also owned by famous Daimyo like 丰臣秀吉，福岛正则...However, when I look at the price, they are often priced 2-4 millions yen +, maybe even more, and that is totally out of my budget. Moreoever, what I am looking for is a not very ancient Nihonto which is still capable of excellent cutting performance. I am not a collectionner(at least not now), I probably don't need some art piece which has a great value but which may not be able to cut anymore and which needs to be conserved eternally as an art piece. I need something functionnal, but not made by modern steel such as l6 w2 etc...I need some functionnal Traditionnal Tamahagane made Nihonto. That's it. Honestly, I don't know about the true value of this nihonto. I just like the measurements, plus I know the smith. The edge seems to be in mint condition and doesn't have any hagire. The price seems to be resaonnalbe for me for a Nihonto. It comes in full koshirae. That is why I purchased it. But Thank you for your advice Bob, I plan to visit Japan late this year to issue this nihonto to NBHTK so that they can rate this ninhonto. Sounds good, I think that you have exactly what you need if that is your thought process. I was just throwing some ideas around because I wasn't sure if you had purchased it yet. Based on your complete explanation it was a good choice Trent S

When I follow the link to the site the sword is listed in the previously sold area.. not the 'bargain section', so I think he did purchase it. I bought from this seller before as well, the menuki arrived three days after I purchased, so I don't think you have anything to worry about and he sends email updates as the order status changes. I suppose some people don't like shinsakuto because it has no "samurai history" but I don't think the resale would be 'half' as $4500 is quite average for a decent shinsakuto and at 70.6cm it's again a fairly average length as an iai blade, so there is a market either way. The blade activity looks nice and seems to be in good polish. I'd say a good purchase, however if you did want something older or your tastes change as there is more good literature on older blades compared to new ones, then I'd say $4500 is a bit much - but if it was me and I was into collecting Seki smiths I'd be happy with the purchase! Congrats thats really strange, its coming up in the bargain section for me and it still is now I just double checked. I mean I didn't even know they had a bargain section until I looked where it was. the internets confuse me Trent S

Correct me if I am wrong but I think he is asking SHOULD he buy it based on the web page description. To be honest if you consider $4500 as a lot of money then id say no. This suggests that you won't buy many nihonto at that price. Since you have gone to the trouble to ask such an in depth question ill be as honest about my opinion as I can. The sword is very expensive for what it is, which is a modern sword. It was never carried into a war or by a samurai. Its value will be approximately half of what you have paid if you try and re sell it. There are very good reasons why it is in the bargain section of the website. You can buy far older blades with history behind them for $1000+. You can buy excellent blades for $2500 and up you just need to shop around. I am referring to katana size and up,wakizashis are considerably cheaper. If you are worried about functionality buy a bainite blade made of high quality steel to your specifications it will be cheaper. If you want artwork with resale value buy 1800's or earlier. This work has its place and if you have looked at many older nihonto but you like it the best then id say buy it. To me though nothing stands out enough to spend $4500 on it. I suggest looking around at alot more swords like other have. http://www.aoijapan.com/japanesesword/katana have a look here, better swords at better prices imo tbh though I prefer riskier deals myself I buy, sell and trade swords purely for fun, not for a source of income. Trent S

http://www.waarmsandarmour.com/events 6th and 7th September Hi people, Just wondering who is going from Western Australia/Australia. I will have a table there for fun to sell/trade because I enjoyed it so much last year. I think that it is the closest thing that we have to a sword show :D Trent Spencer

I do something similar but interest in person is hard to find . I'll even find swords at cost sometimes after a bit of a chat. Most people around my age (25) aren't interested in something that they don't have the funds to own, but a lot of older people are from what Ive heard on here. Sellers like the one mentioned should be held accountable so that they lose business and give up or at least learn some life lessons. What state are you in? Trent S

No problem its for everyone's benefit that I posted it On a more positive note I am buying a katana from Ed at Yakiba and he seems very professional and straight forward. Many people are very honest. Trent Spencer

For all those interested it is this one that I posted about before when I viewed it. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18971 He has been well informed by me that it has a cracked and welded nakago and big openings in the blade. Still looking like a good package ps. The koshire wasn't made for the blade either imo T Spencer

Yes but he lies in all of his descriptions and emails. The sword he is selling now ive had in my hands and ive sent back. He knows its got flaws. I just pass on information id have liked to read before I made my purchase. Claiming that you have a war veteran father who died and left you all of his swords and talking about how devastated you are is outrageous behavior. Trent S

I bought two, he sent them both and I sent one back because it had forging flaws when he said it was perfect. Someone else bought it since then, now either they sent it back as well or the sale fell through. Its the one hes selling now, its being sold for the third time. He has a probable gimei sadamune hes trying to pass off as real as well. This is his link have a look it from ebay or online id seen it before http://s854.photobucket.com/user/Bassy5 ... t=3&page=1 T Spencer

I suggest that nobody buy swords off this seller: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese-WW2 ... 27e808bbd6 His story about inheriting swords from his dead father to pay for his children's education is pure fiction. He is also knowingly selling gimei swords and saying that he has had them confirmed real. I have traced where he has got his swords from and are in contact with the sellers who sold him swords and can confirm his address in Australia. I find it sad that a follow collector needs to go to such lengths to push a sale. His emails to me really played the dead war veteran card well to close the sale of a gimei sword that he said he had another collector confirm as real. He is also the one who sold the SA sword which is gimei and obviously not read out in a will and found under the floorboards as he claimed. Anyway just felt like sharing some facts. T Spencer

Hi peluche399, When it starts getting messy is when you are comparing $3-5000 to $20,000 dollar (roughly) blades. It seems to be a very grey market. I have bought wakizashis that "sell" for $9000 from one dealer but they are $2600 from another. Both are signed by the same generation of smith and are papered with similar hamon, grain etc. Prices often seem to come down to how trusted the dealer is and their reputation more than the actual workmanship in front of the buyer. This scenario applies to new buyers but also educated ones who aren't risk takers. I have personally watched mumei katana which have nics and forging flaws sold for double their normal value just because they were sold through a well known dealer. When the buyer tries to resell the sword after a few people have pointed out the flaws they can't achieve half the original price. I find that some $5000 blades will have better construction all round but might not be signed or might be signed by a smith that isn't as well known. People seem to rather a ''brand name" ie smith mei in weaker workmanship than a better made mumei blade. The brand gives them a piece of mind when they don't really understand why they bought what they bought. I think that many aspects of a nihonto purchasers decision making process is based on opinion. I have a nihonto signed by Sukemune who isnt well known at all as far as I can tell and it cost me 800 dollars. I am yet to see a sword under $25,000 that I would trade it for. The hamon changes shape completely three different ways as you rotate the blade in the sunlight. To me that is artwork and not easily replicated and only cost 800 dollars. As far as functionality, some argue that a large bright waving temper line creates a weaker sword that is more likely to break than a straight thinner one. Obviously a large bright temper line on a mumei blade will command a higher price than a straight bright temper line on the same blade. So sometimes pure functionality isn't often one of the main factors driving price. Generally you can sum up value of a blade by these things: How much damage does it have? How many forging flaws? How tight is the grain? How well is it polished? How many times has it been polished/how tired is it? Does it have a horimono that is well carved or a crap one used to cover flaws? Is it rusted anywhere? Is it polished/shaped properly to maintain correct intended geometry? Has it been reshaped? Has it been burned/heated after temper? Who signed it? Is it signed? Is the signature authentic? How old is it? Was it cut down? Has the metal been crystallized on the temper line? How bright and vivid is the hamon? What shape is the hamon? Is it bent? Has it been repaired? Does it have a cutting test(s)? Is random kanji carved into the nakago detailing something? Is it soshu school? If it has recent NBTHK papers it is worth more in general. If it has recent NTHK papers It is worth slightly more depending on the paper. Are the papers real? What level are the papers? How old are the papers? The longer it is the more its worth. Im sure ive missed something as I typed this quite fast. These are general factors that will drive up the price in an auction scenario. Other factors like shape, time period, geometry, length, curve, specific hamon types, kissaki (some kissaki that are longer fetch a higher price), nakago shape or any other variation of original creative construction all come down to opinion of an individual and don't influence price across the board and heavily as the listed factors. Cheers, Trent S

It is also very unlikely that someone would later add a signature to a post WW2 sword, generally speaking imo it just wouldn't be worth it. I actually have an early muromachi wakizashi that a fake signature was added to later and it is obvious in hand that the mei isn't as old as the original blade. The mei is still very old just not as old. Someone has just tried to increase its value, probably to present as a gift. It did happen at times, just not in this example. T Spencer

I know nothing about subtle gunto koshire variations, so im guessing its pretty common to have custom fittings made then for each blade? Trent Spencer

Here are some photos Trent Spencer

I have a custom koshire like that where all the numbers match on the parts and it was custom made for an old family blade. It apparently had a yellow and red tassle on it which was sold separately to someone interested in it before I acquired it. It has 3 dents which look repairable and minor paint loss. I have no idea about the value of the koshire I only know about the katana inside. I was wondering approximately what a koshire like that or this one would be worth or what anyone has paid for one. It is part of me doing my insurance upgrade for all of my additional swords as well as if I ever sell or trade it. Trent Spencer

Your comment made me laugh a lot really good +1 :D Trent Spencer

Trent, I must have missed something, as I haven't seen you asking a single question in this thread. But you make statements with great confidence... It was on another thread when you suggested that I was off topic and rolled your eyes. I may have been but I don't think that is was going to detract from the conversation. Trent Spencer

The positives are that at least if you pay for the sword, each time you look at it you will know that you learned and did the right thing. Id never suggest what you should do though unless asked, im just seeing the positives if it were me There seems physically to be a lot to learn from that blade as well. Trent Spencer

Marius, If my perception of the value of swords was meaningless, then after three years interest in the hobby I wouldn't be sitting here looking at a 12 nihonto. Four of which are nbthk papered (two katanas and two wakizashis) and they rest which are very beautiful pieces which have never been sent for shinsa. I started with a $1100 dollar investment (%40 of which I borrowed) in the hobby of nihonto and militaria and now I have all of that which I paid for using my observations and opinion of what has value though buying and selling. I have never pretended to be a scholar or professor but I am just offering my opinions in conversation so that I can better enjoy my hobby and get to know others here. Nobody I know in person has a remote interest in it. Aside from nihonto, I race dirt bikes, hunt, 4WD, wake board, travel, real estate etc so I am very busy and can't always allocate as much time as id like to educate myself on the finer points of antique sword forging. Also I have just turned 25 so luckily I have many more years ahead of me to enjoy what im doing. Trent Spencer Ps. I also appreciate it that when I ask questions which I consider are good ones that people either kindly answer or don't respond, instead of actively brushing them off you should let people reply instead of suggesting deletion of a thread after you have commented thank you

Ebay as well as private sales I've seen them go for between 3-4k for thr cheapest. Not justa one off either. Trent Spencer

Smart move, about the tachi, you would seriously be better off buying something cheaper of quality or saving up. There are a lot of people looking for the same thing that you are and they are very efficient. A good cheap tachi is about 4k starting price. A good cheap wakizashi you can get for 1200 and up. Trent Spencer

I hope not because the blade is rubbish :/ $150 was a good price. What you are saying unfortunately seems closer to the truth though. Trent Spencer

Good deal 150 dollars isnt bad for a piece of history. Trent Spencer

At 3000 dollars its pretty safe from modern samurai in his shop id say id save your money and preserve a wakizashi in good condition instead. The blister is a forging flaw so it isn't that fantastic, but that is just my opinion. If it didn't have the forging flaws and the horimono it might be a different story. Trent Spencer

Around 3000 usd for that? The seller is dreaming. The blister really puts me off and I wouldn't be surprised if a further polish revealed more flaws. Definitely one to stay away from. Trent Spencer