loui

Hi Kevin, without even seeing a picture it is impossible for me to say for sure, but when you mentioned the hada that is what came to mind. I had received an old blade, it was in a very old polish and it was a high quality polish with perfect foundation, the temper was executed very well and was professionally done. This blade was sunobe! The tell tale sign is a hada that looks "sparkly" for lack of a better term, it looks like a very tight hada but in fact there is no hada. There was a Military smith or General who thought this was a quick and efficient way to make swords for war, it was during the late 1800's iirc. I'll have to look up the info in my journals - but someone else probably has the info. Louis

The "nashiji" hada might be an effect of the construction - maybe it is sunobe to: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sunobe.html Regards, Louis

Hmmmm, i think you are wrong:) LOL. OK all done!

I can't find that smilie of the dead horse being beaten, can someone please add it to my post. Would be nice to move on from the artifact vs. art opinion, I think we get your position on it Chris:) Cheers. Louis

If you keep them in safes you can always go to an electronics/computer store and ask for the large bags of desiccant - throw them in your safes and it will help. You can dry them out (desiccant) in the oven when the wife isn't home as well. Humidity of 20-30 percent is dry enough, any dryer and things will start to dry out. Louis

Estcrh, bargain!

Is there a list of the blades that were tested and failed by hagire, just curious? The amount of blades that were actually tested was very small and limited in comparison to the number of blades that have been made over the last 1000 years, yes there was a cross section if you will of blades by various smiths used for the cutting but it is limited. Also to judge a blade with hagire outside of a "testing" environment as being poor workmanship would be erroneous as we don't know what it really went through. That is my main point, but - a blade that comes out of the water trough with a hagire - that is definitely a poorly made sword, without question I suspect. This could probably keep going round and round Just my opinions of course.

Hi Brian, does it look like that on the other side?

Hmm, sorry not buying that argument, kind of like the test for witches in Salem, tie a rock to their feet and bind them, if they float they are a witch, if they sink they aren't. All depends on what they are cutting and all circumstances are different, health of the blade, what it is cutting, temperature, etc etc etc. By your theory the only truly well forged blades would be the ones that were tested and survived.

Some might argue that a hagire is the ultimate in poor workmanship.... If made during forging the blade yes, but a hagire can be created by trauma. EDIT - oops, didn't see your post veli.

interesting post, it should be nice to see some opinions and examples of flaws and fatal flaws. One thing I find is that much of the intolerance is Western, not trying to be controversial but some opinions on this matter are often adopted from the opinion of another, so potentially it becomes a group opinion and not a personal opinion. I used to dislike many flaws and hagire, the eye opener for me was seeing a Kanabo blade with hagire (ok, two strikes against it already right) but this one was removed from a shrine iirc and was polished, it had 8-12 hagire and remaining rust depressions from deep pitting. This blade was in the shrine for a reason, obviously it had seen a terrific battle, one that probably didn't create all those hagire in one strike but after many many serious strikes. So, although the blade had all those hagire it never cracked in half, I am sure that after the battle the samurai looked at that blade, prayed to it, and ordered another Kanabo blade. Hagire - fatal? not that day. Cause the blade to crack in half in battle? Opinions change after more knowledge and understanding is obtained, I don't mind hagire so much any more after seeing that. I have the blade pictured below, came from a collection in Japan after the collector passed away many years ago. After his death the blade was stored in a place where water dripped down the shirasaya and collected in the saya, anyway the owner let it go cheap so I bought it knowing the "issues". The issues were rust, gimei, one hagire and some severe blistering. But, prior to the water damage the owner had it completely restored, new silver habaki, professional polish (gimei left as it was) and new shirasaya, to this collector the blade was not junk, it was worthy of an expensive restoration. The issues were not forging related, they were caused by a major trauma, this blade was bent probably to about 45 degrees, this caused the hagire and the massive blistering/delamination. I love this blade, it has a story behind it and the forging is very beautiful and I'll polish it soon. I also think there are differences between flaws that occur from forging and those that occur from use. For the purists this blade no matter how beautiful is junk to them, that is ok by me. Here are the pics:

Good call Steve, hope it turns out for you! Louis

I'm pretty sure Bob would make the proper recommendation as I said. There is a papering/polishing/submit/resubmit/repolish vortex, best to go the right way the first time.

Pics only go so far, send blade to bob benson, if he recommends further action then it will get polished and then to the NBTHK. I think that is appropriate. Regards, Louis

Hi There, For the nakago what Chris mentioned for collectors it would be acceptable, I add a few procedures that polishers use (yes, practices used and shown to me by fully trained polishers) but wouldn't recommend them for a collector, and most likely the info wouldn't be passed on to most. For the blade itself it depends on what state the rust is and how bad. For some with very minor stabiiized rust I would just oil until polishing, for active rust that will concern me I remove with my stones as soon as I get the blade. Some rust will not be able to be "neutralized" by oiling or oiling and wrapping, this rust goes deep and often has a thick build up and what seems to be a patina, underneath the rust is still certainly active, it must be removed by stones. Many circumstances are different, sometimes oil will work, sometimes oil and wrapping will work, sometimes Ian's method may work (although I have no need to try it), but since every circumstance is different I cannot say how to treat your rust, at a minimum oil heavily (mineral oil is fine) until the active rust you can see is inactive and have a polisher remove it eventually. I have several pictures I will try to find when I get home of what I have done. Regards, Louis

Ah, Token Konno, he had a website and now it is not working any more. Louis

Hi Ted, that is reasonable, we can see the lacquering of ware and large blisters even today by polishers, a little unsightly but better than the alternative. Louis

In days of old when blades were mass produced, especially yari and naginata it would have been quicker to lacquer the hi, but the process is still time consuming, and although most yari and naginata are of poorer quality many fine examples of both exist - and with lacquer work. I have seen newly made yari that have lacquered grooves, more for the taste of the smith than speedy completion, with todays techniques used for polishing a groove the time difference is minimal and lacquering properly takes time and effort. Easier to lacquer the hi than polish?? Not in all circumstances. Easier to hide a flaw - yes. Yes Brian I lacquered the neck and groove - pretty tricky business. Louis

The lacquering could be several different colors, placed there by the smith in his taste, the person who ordered the sword may have wanted the lacquer as well. Some say to cover flaws but as you can see there are many flaws in swords that aren't covered so who is to say for sure. I have removed lacquer and found no flaws on naginata, yari and swords. And to qualify the above info came from a "trained" polisher in Japan. This yari has a lacquered groove and neck, neither were flawed it was just the taste of the smith probably. Scroll to the bottom to see the original lacquer. http://www.japaneseswordcollector.com/nao/nao1.html Regards. Louis

Please do not buy off ebay, if you insist then please ask someone knowledgeable before you hit the bid button. But I recommend not buying on ebay until you know what you are doing. Louis

Hi Ty, Your idea of attending the shows is very good, although you will be overwhelmed:) You will learn very much at the show, I've found the shows to be a little on the expensive side, but some "deals" can be had. As was mentioned earlier the Yen is killing us now, and shipping on top is a real bugger. There is no need to buy in Japan at this time as I am sure your needs can be met in North America. A blade in polish and papered is great for a new collector, you'll save on the restoration costs, but not having papers is not the end of the world - don't get caught up in the papering vortex if you can help it.. Like Chris said wakizashi are numerous and great deals can be had, tanto can be had as well and there are some pretty good deals on tanto. You generally pay a premium for anything over 27 inches. With Aoi you know what you are getting, most often papered, and very good to deal with. You can also try Usagiya in Japan at: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/ A very honest and knowledgeable dealer of swords both new and old. There are many snakes in the grass, educate yourself, find someone local to you who is a collector and visit often, also try joining a sword club if there is one in your area or the NCJSC at http://www.ncjsc.org/ Their beginners book is great and the newsletters are very nice. Oh, and make sure the dealer has a return policy. Good luck and I hope you find a nice blade. Louis PS. and Roy does have a good point, I have bought some very nice swords (wells, some good, bad, and ugly) locally with a well placed advertisement in the newspaper. The lessons aren't as expensive that way:)

Exactly, that's why I said "almost", I had to re-polish a blade that came back from Japan in fresh polish and new shirasaya, movement in the shirasaya caused scuffing that needed re-touching., no need to make a new shirasaya for that. There are almost always exceptions to the rule. One thing I do is ship with the blade out of the mounts, oiled, and mounted to a board to prevent issues that may occur, it also keeps the customs agents from practicing their ninja skills. Louis

Yes it will rust in a new shirasaya with fresh polish and without oil - it is raw steel and needs to be kept with a coat of oil at all times. Oil will not accumulate and contaminate if you apply and remove properly. Always keep the blade oiled please. I am not sure how an old saya will cause a freshly polished blade to rust, unless it has water in it - and most saya I have seen have never had water in them. That being said a blade sent for restoration should in most circumstances have a new shirasaya made. Splitting and cleaning a saya is not really that reliable, it will be larger allowing for more movement of the blade now (=more chance for damage), and if it's an old saya they seem to really soak up the oil and dirt, you are taking some chances. I'd almost never recommend (I said almost) splitting and re-using a saya. A freshly polished blade should always come oiled. I hope this works out better the second time around for you. Louis

Hats off to all Ford, Brian and David, well done! Nice to see representation from the west garnering excellent results! Cheers. Louis

Yes, rust can form in 24 hours - or almost immediately depending on what the blades comes in contact with. If your finger came in contact with it that could cause it. Did you clean and oil it after viewing? Can you post a picture of it? Regards, Louis