Ken-Hawaii

Thanks, John; no huge rush on the scan. Guess there's a wee bit of difference between your home & mine - ice isn't much of a problem in Hawaii...! And we go swimming right across the street in the Pacific on Christmas & New Year, too. :D Have you found any meteorites on the snow & ice fields like they do in the Antarctic? Thanks for Howard's e-mail, Stephen. I had already asked him if he has any info, but haven't heard back as yet. I just heard back from a friend who owns Arizona Skies Meteorites (http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com - check out his Nihonto!!), & he told me that he had a customer from Japan who bought over 20 kilograms of Chinga iron meteorites a year or so ago. When John asked why he was buying so many, he was told that the buyer was having a custom sword made. I'm checking into that, but it does show that somebody else is interested in meteoritic swords.

John, I would be very interested to read that monograph on the Chinese sword. It would get me at least one step closer to finding Nihonto with meteoric content. I'm planning to write a paper to present at one of our Japanese Sword Society meetings when I've gathered enough useful content. Thanks in advance. Kaien, I've worked with metallurgy as an engineer for over 40 years, & am quite familiar with meteorites, as well. My wife & I have over a dozen in our collection, including one 24-pounder, & I've gone so far as to run analyses of just what elements are present. In short, my iron meteorites average between 92-97% iron, 2-5% nickel, & a bunch of other trace elements like iridium, chromium, selenium, & carbon. None of these elements would cause any problem in sword forging, & in fact would likely make the blade a whole lot harder & more durable than those made purely from black-sand tamahagane. As meteorites fall everywhere on earth - I've found them with my metal detector in the deserts of Arizona & Wyoming, a small hilltop just outside San Antonio, & in several places in California - I'm fairly certain that there are at least a few Japanese swordsmiths who came upon them in the course of business or trade. As they were metal experts, I see no reason why they wouldn't at least attempt to use meteorites to make special Nihonto for Daimyo or local lords. There is no chemical change to meteorites as or after they hit the earth, by the way, other than oxidation (i.e., rusting). There is usually about 1/4-inch of ablated (melted) material from atmospheric friction (think of it as really-accelerated rusting :D ), but the chemical composition stays the same. What does change is the crystalline structure of the metallic content, but that shouldn't make any real difference in sword forging. As far as exorbitant costs, I disagree. The purity of the iron in meteorites would make the smith's job a lot easier than starting with iron filings from a stream-bed, & it is very likely that the smith would become known for his superior blades. That would bring welcome attention from local lords & Daimyo, especially back in the Heian & Koto periods. I think the problem lies in how the smiths would identify such Nihonto, because there is no easy way to explain how the "iron rock fell from the sky," assuming that anyone even saw it fall. Like John, I've seen a lot of blades from Indonesia & India that claim to be made from meteoritic material, but I have no way to check their validity; telling a meteoric blade from one made via the Damascus/pattern-welding process is beyond me! I've read estimates of 37-78 thousand TONS of material of all sizes hitting the earth each year, so there's likely no huge problem in finding significant quantities, except for the fact that they can be found literally anywhere. It turns out that Antarctica is one of the best locations, as dark meteorites show up really well on ice & snow. But Japan & Okinawa certainly have their shares. Anyway, back to the estimated cost to create such a blade, I find it hard to think that a swordsmith would put such a high value on a meteorite that he wouldn't be willing to create a masterpiece blade that would be "affordable." What else could he do with it??

Thanks for some very interesting leads. I figure that if Koto smiths had to resort to black sand (iron filings) to make their tamahagane, using a meteorite would be a pretty natural thing. It probably would have led to some quasi-religious mummery associated with the blade, but have found very little to support that theory. I know the Chinese were using lodestone (magnetite) several thousand years ago for compasses, & as that's also a chunk of iron, I wonder if anyone has seen or heard of this usage.

Sure wish I could read that link document, Kenkaku, but it's a start to my research. Arigato!

As someone who does practice tameshigiri with some regularity - at least when I can afford to ship in tatami omote - let me add my two cents to this discussion. From a practical cutting standpoint, this blade would certainly cut tatami, which is the equivalent of flesh (rather than bone) with no problem at all. I would advise against using it to cut bamboo - the bone equivalent - but would use it if I had nothing else, & didn't much care whether the blade survived. And even if it did break, I could still use it to cut as a kodachi. A weapon is a weapon. Would it be my first choice? Hell, no! But as I've cut even with an iaito (dulled zinc-beryllium blade), the ha on this blade looks intact enough to do some damage. If you've watched Kurosawa's classic movie Seven Samurai, you might have noted that the ronin lined up a bunch of katana & tachi & stuck them in the dirt, fully expecting that the cheap blades would break when they cut in battle. This would be one of those blades.

Aloha, all: I've been off the forum for a few months due to family issues, but had an interesting discussion at yesterday's Japanese Sword Society meeting. We were talking about how modern swords just don't have at all the same surface structure & appearance as do the Nihonto of the Muromachi & earlier eras, & it was brought up that swordsmiths 'way back then created their tamahagane from meteorites as well as black sand. I haven't been able to find any information on whether meteorites played any part in Nihonto construction, but I'm betting that someone on this forum has heard or read something. Related to that is the question of whether a high-nickel & -chromium source like meteoritic steel would have a big effect on the appearance of Nihonto. Any comments or ideas?

Mike, if you'll change your signature to show your name, we can more easily identify you next time around.

I am wondering why you don't just submit your wakizashi to a reputable togi to see what he/she has to say about it. None of us on this forum (with notable exceptions like Keith) are completely knowledgeable about the cost/benefits of polishing, & certainly don't have your blade in hand. Please do let us know the result if you take my advice.

Andrew, are you also going to create the tsuba, fuchi-kashira, & seppa? I know that many of us would like to see what you build. And welcome aboard.

Jeremy, this is a joke, right?? Who in their right mind would use an art sword for iaido? He's spending over $5,000 for the blade, then wants to spend another $1,000 or so for koshirae & furniture, & THEN wants to go bang it around in the dojo? Somebody doesn't have all his oars in the water!!

I agree with Brian that Ed is an excellent person to deal with on Nihonto. I have purchased several from him - including my favorite Sue Bizen - & he's a great communicator.

The cost/benefit ratio is determined by more than just the dollar values of the blade & work. First, do you have the funds to pay a qualified togishi to do the job right? Second, is the blade important enough to you to spend the money? And, third, is this a blade for your personal collection (i.e., enjoyment, study, etc.), or are you planning to turn around & try to resell it for a profit? All of these factors play a part in any decision. You also mention that most of the blade is in "relatively good polish," so that can cut way down on polishing costs. But if it's an old polish, then a polish of just a few areas may result in a distinct difference in appearance. I had that happen on a tanto, & ended up going back to the togishi & having him polish the entire blade - glad it wasn't a katana!

Sashko, are you talking about something like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/Donnelly-Mosaic-Dam ... dZViewItem

Brian, I think that Ted's explanation of polishing should become a "sticky," because it has so much useful information. Great job!! Rémy, yes, there are several metallurgical techniques that could be used to search for hidden kizu, but I'm not sure exactly how we'd go about it. There are many detailed procedures to look for cracks & weak points in steel plate/pipes/etc., but how do those apply to a hand-forged blade? I've worked in the field for about 40 years, & I'd hesitate on NDT (non-destructive testing) because I'm not sure how to interpret what I see....

Agreed, Jeremy. Kinda' like asking "how high is up?" Why is the blade being polished, & to what extent?

Mikael, the dry-rod is available at http://www.dealerease.net/catalog/produ ... _id=139995 for under $30, & I highly recommend it. If it kills the humidity here in Hawaii, it's likely to work fine for you, too. I strongly recommend against rubbing alcohol on your blade!! It not only contains up to 30% water, it also attracts water from the atmosphere. If you (for some strange reason) have to use alcohol, at least use denatured to minimize the water. but unless you have gum on the blade, alcohol should be avoided. Methyl hydrate is probably methanol, which isn't much different from rubbing (isopropanol) alcohol. Enough chemical engineering! Similarly, uchiko, as I mentioned before removes small amounts of metal from your blade. Not surprising as uchiko is nothing more than finely-ground polishing stone. I don't know why you would want to remove metal from your Nihonto just to clean off oil each month...a soft clean rag works just fine unless you've let oil build up for several years. Choji oil is available from many sources, Mikael, but you can try http://www.e-bogu.com, which is where I get many of my supplies. Have fun!

Mikael, most of us use choji oil on our Nihonto, but any lightweight oil will work just fine. Don't try to remove all of the old oil with anything except a clean non-abrasive cloth . Using uchiko is often suggested, but that's a fairly strong abrasive, & it will also remove some of the metal, including your hamon. I keep my blades in a display cabinet with a dry-rod, & oil them only once a quarter or so.

Yeah, a great link, Franco. Mahalo! (Thanks!)

Scott, if you're living near a togishi (polisher), it's best to bring the blade in for him/her to evaluate. That way, you can get all the pros & cons at one sitting. Nearly all the togishi I know are more than willing to polish almost anything that's brought in (let's face it, they have a living to make, too). But there are a few notable exceptions who won't agree to polish any blade they don't deem as worthy. Mark's suggestions are well-taken, & I would add a couple more. Does the blade require any reshaping or straightening? What level of polishing does it need (shiage [final] only or a full shitaji)? And does the blade warrant waiting possibly 6-12 months to be polished? I've paid in excess of $100/inch on a blade I successfully submitted for origami.

Aloha, Mike. Good to find another meteorite hunter/collector who also collects Nihonto. Brian & Stephen, I've heard of some Koto & Shinto blades that were made using meteoritic iron. Any info on that?

If you want to save a photo with maximum compression & minimum artifacts & data-loss (not quite lossless, but very close), if you're using Photoshop 5.5 or higher, you already have the answer on your computer. Adobe stupidly doesn't mention ImageReady, which is installed automatically with Photoshop, & does an incredible job of compressing large images. I can go into more details if anyone wants to know more.

And not just eBay, either. You can find great fakes at almost any gun show, garage sale, & damn near anywhere else. Finding the real ones is the real trick!

I tried Kokuho rice, but ended up using Mochiko. There's almost nothing as glutinous - several hundred million Japanese use it for making mochi, which is about as chewy a food as you can get!

Same here, Rémy. I could live with the results, but my shirasaya certainly didn't look exactly like all my others. Probably a function of how much water gets mixed in, the drying rate, humidity, & a bunch of other factors. But at least it was inexpensive...!

Not much I could find, Murph. But there's a brief bit on him at http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Swo ... ndaito.htm