Adrian

And they named you their spokesperson, right? :lol: Jeez... Your involvement in this being zero so far and the order placed in this post barely covering the obvious and useless personal attack. As stated in my previous post, I only post here when I see that nothing moved for a few months (usually 3 or so) . The motivation for doing so being that I strongly believe that the window of opportunity for going trough with this project isn't going to remain open forever. If you bothered to actually read at least the recent posts, you would have noticed that the result of my "bickering" is that Brian posted the part about the ROTW members being put off by high shipping costs. Then Grey came with the brilliant idea of a flat shipping fee for every copy. So now we have moved forward an inch or two. Then Stephen volunteered to be the shipping hub for the US orders, so we moved forward another bit. All we lack at this point are one (or even better, a few) well known and respected volunteers for receiving the Paypal payments. We have 2 orders for 10 copies each (John and Barry), 2 orders for 5 copies each (Mark V. and Jussi) and 6 orders for 3 copies, only these total 48 copies. TBH I think that all these orders will be paid for. Then we have 9 orders for two copies each and 29 orders for one copy each in the poll (totaling another 47 copies) plus a few orders for 1-2 copies in various posts, like yours. In total, we have over 100 confirmed orders. Not all will be paid for, of course, but I expect the rate to be quite high. As I said before, I'd rather try and fail when the ONLY risk involved is some hassle with Paypal refunds, then do nothing and let the project die, while waiting for another 50 orders to magically appear out of nowhere. Besides, there's another factor that needs to be accounted for: announcing on the board that payments for 80 copies have already been collected will most likely result in a few other people joining in (this always happens when this kind of project actually starts rolling and people see the ship leaving the shore, so to speak). All things considered, I really don't understand why some people see this as an opportunity for a flame war, instead of seeing it as an opportunity to do something positive and help the project...

Kevin, Would the packages shipped from UK to other countries within the EU (you mentioned Italy and the Czech Republic) have to clear the customs? I thought that under the EU laws these should be treated as domestic shipments (as in no custom taxes and no VAT).

I really hope I'm transparent because I don't see what's to be hidden here :lol: I proposed to do all the project with money from my own pocket to put an end to all this "good ole boy" attitude. Then you said I was going to print more copies (and pocket the difference), when we struggle to get 150 orders :lol: . And when I pointed this out you closed the topic for a few months. As for "real offer" vs Eastern European printers, you obviously don't know how many of the books sold in Western Europe are printed in Eastern Europe these days. Again, please understand that I have nothing against you and IF YOU FOLLOW TROUGH I'm very happy that you took over (you really got A LOT of work off my shoulders). But do follow trough, don't just present a perfect offer and then bury the project under a mountain of silence.

Well, I do care if this happens or not And I didn't said that Brian attacked me or the project, he's just being a bit over-pesimistic about certain details that need to be worked out, in a moment when he's the one who should be pushing the project forward. P.S. He did expressed (a few good months ago) some suspicions that were completely misplaced and even a bit illogical (given the exact circumstances), but that's already in the past and also completely irrelevant for the current state of the project (since he took over the project after finding an awesome offer from a US based printer). That's a possibility, of course, but keep in mind that ve have in the poll one vote for 10+copies (John Stuart) and Barry also changed his pre-oder to 10 copies in a post. If Brian didn't changed Barry's vote in the poll to better keep track of the pre-orders (Barry initially voted 2 copies if memory serves) that's already 20 copies with 2 payments. And personally I think that most if not all of those who voted 3 copies and more will follow trough. So about 80 payments may very well be enough. In the end, that's a choice which heavily depends on personality: some people -me included- would rather try and risk to fail (particularly when the all the "risk" involved is just some hassle about refunding a few paypal payments), while other people would rather not try at all until 101% sure that everything is lined up - therefore risking to just bury the whole thing. Brian made it sound like refunding 100 paypal payments was some titanic task. I say it's at worst a two afternoon's work for a single person, if all the payments (done correctly, paypal fees included in the total amount) include a clear message which states the purpose of the payment and the number of copies ordered. If split between 4 volunteers, as I suggested, it's something easy compared to what you volunteered for. (being the shipping hub for the US orders)

Are you somehow implying that people who volunteer for far bigger tasks (then collecting a few payments for a non-profit project) don't have a life? Seriously now, this sort of negativism isn't going to get us anywhere. We could even split this task between a few volunteers, so no one gets overwhelmed. Someone to gather payments from Canada, someone to gather payments from the USA, someone for the EU and someone for the ROTW. There are enough people on this board who are known in this community for decades and are above any suspicion, if 4 of them would be willing to make the effort of collecting about 20-25 payments each we could get past this problem ( tbh I doubt there will be more then 80 payments for 150 copies, considering the poll and the added orders trough the topic). As long as we keep being positive about it and keep looking for good solutions, this will happen. If we start looking for reasons why this is difficult and may not happen, then yes, the chances decrease rapidly...

Send him a message and ask if it would be possible to collect the item locally

Stephen volunteered for a time consuming and backbreaking job. And generally speaking the whole project was based from the start on a lot of volunteer work, even if you thought otherwise. So I don't see why we should dismiss so quickly the idea that someone could volunteer to be the "middle man".

Brian, don't you think that this decision should be made by the volunteer? (if anyone well known and respected by the community comes forward, of course) If no one volunteers for being the middle man (so to speak), then yes, we will have to go trough Indiegogo or any similar company.

Brian, Indiegogo would charge 4% plus 3% for credit card processing and in our case we would pay this money for nothing. Since we are already using this forum as a platform to raise the $ required for the project. What we need is one reputable person (preferably US based, to avoid excessive paypal fees) who would collect the money and then pay the printer. If the required amount is not raised, he will simply refund those who already sent the money. I don't see how this could be more simple.

Denis, read the relevant posts on page 7 and 8, we have yet to decide if the paper is going to be 70#, 80# or 85#. That's 104g/m2 , 115g/m2 and 120g/m2, as you can see there's a 15% weight increase between the thinnest and the thickest papers considered for this project. After we decide which paper to use we can easily estimate the weight of the set, based on the number of pages (divided by 2) and the surface of a page. (adding something for the covers and binding, of course). Personally I'd go with 85# since the price difference is minimal and the increased quality would make quite a difference in the book's general feeling as a quality item.

No, it's not. Once the paper is chosen it's simple math. Nice. This partially solves one of the biggest problems. Just be aware this will be a time consuming task, plus the boxes coming from the printer will be quite heavy.

Grey, this is a brilliant idea and could really get the shipping problem out of the way. But of course we have to ask the opinion of the US based members who expressed interest in this venture. If Brian has nothing against your proposal, I guess a new topic would be the best approach. 1 copy for the flat price of 140$ shipped anywhere in the world, if the copies ordered by the US based members are at least equal in number with the copies ordered by the rotw members.

Grey must have thought I was really weird when I asked him to seal the wakizashi in a pvc pipe, then put the pipe in a suitable box and let me sort it out with local customs But the fact is that in most countries the customs officials WILL get curious when they figure out that the sharp thing they're holding is a genuine nihonto. And if you have the bad luck to have your package picked up by an idiot who wants to play Kill Bill a bit, then try the sharpness with the finger while holding the blade with the other hand and so on, you risk to receive something that has lost consistent value since it was shipped. Of course, many custom officials don't fall under this category, but there are enough who do. The only USPS package that was shipped to me from the US and got stolen (out of maybe 200 or so during the past 15 years) had high value and was shipped in late November. They knew exactly what they were doing, ripped the box in one corner, got the content, left the box there to arrive at destination with "loss of weight". The package was insured with 3rd party insurance so I got the money back after a painful fight between the seller and the insurance company, but it took a time before I had the $ back, and the item was one of a kind and intended to be a Christmas gift. Since then, I try (but not always succeed, see my previous post :lol: ) to avoid having stuff shipped to me in this period and in any case I ask the seller to put a modest value on the custom forms (30-50$ maximum) and a very unattractive description ("spare parts" and so on) . Never had any problem with the packages shipped like this, and some contained rather expensive stuff. Thieves don't open packages randomly when the warehouses are filled to the roof, they just read the custom forms and choose carefully.

Don't worry, I had a USPS priority package mailed to me (EU) from the USA on Dec 10. Went to the USPS export warehouse in 2 days, went missing for almost a month, reappeared on tracking on Jan 9 when it entered my country. Got it on 11th. So basically the huge volume of goods that goes from one continent to another during the holiday season will slow down shipping to the point where the delivery date becomes unpredictable. And that was with priority, it's obvious what happens with first class...

OK, maybe it's time for another topic, with a precise weight estimation for one set (based on the chosen paper), so all those who are interested can calculate postage using their chosen shipping method? (USPS would make perfect sense if printed in the USA, perhaps one of the flat fee boxes could be enough for a set). At the very least we could get an exact picture of the demand at this point. This doesn't require any effort but is very important - I can very well understand that you have no motivation to push forward if you don't know with a certain degree of certitude how many copies would be paid for ( before placing the order to the printer, of course). P.S. Considering the fact that this was entirely my idea, that I'm the one who proved it can be done (despite some people claiming the opposite) and that I pushed the things forwards up to the point where you found this GREAT offer for US offset print at a reasonable cost and for a very small run (that really shouldn't be missed), I don't think that you should try to patronize me with this kind of replies... I only want this project to succeed and I think it would be a great thing for this community, regardless of who started it and who completes it. Don't you agree?

I was under the impression that everyone who cast his vote here understood what are the postage costs for such a book and was willing to pay the price. Also the pre-order count was quite high, a few guys increased their order by posts on the topic and so on. Did I missed something? P.S. Sure, there's no rush on such volunteer work, but I doubt that the US printing company you found is going to maintain such a great offer indefinitely.

Brian, any news from the book printing front?

Probably the pile got higher every time he told the story, but must have been quite impressive even in reality :D

A very happy 2014! :D

Ken, I'm not talking about the Claymore but the Bidenhander, the weapon used by specialised Landsknecht soldiers as shown in the engraving from my previous post. As opposed to the Claymore, the Bidenhander was used in large scale pitched battles.

Ken, I think it's safe to assume that these long odachi were special purpose swords. I remember seeing a few days ago an engraving which showed how the European two handed sword was used against tight pike formations, the soldiers wielding them had ample space to move and retreat between swings.

*Edit admin* Enough said. This is not a courtcase where rebuttal is needed or wanted.

"Normal" odachi are clearly usable even by shorter guys like the average Japanese samurai. About Ken's affirmation, I think that if actually used in battle, these very long odachi were used for very specific purposes. Same as the German zweihänder/bidenhänder which was used by specialist Landsknecht against tight pike formations.

Thank you for the link Ken. It makes things even more interesting, since the sword we are discussing here is obviously the 4th sword on Jussi's topic. According to his identification, this is The given blade lenght is consistent with my estimation (as being longer then Grutte Pier's sword). And if the legend surrounding it is correct, it was actually used in battle (amazing feat for a Japanese XVIth century warrior, to wield a 4.5 kg blade of this length)

Ken, thanks for the answer. I added a comparison with a zweihänder sword of similar length that belonged to a known historical figure. Somehow I cannot imagine that Japanese Grutte Pier/Pier Gerlofs Donia :D And even if the sword was used only from horseback, I think it's still too heavy for being effectively used in combat by a Japanese samurai. Perhaps a ceremonial piece of some sort?