Adrian

I tried to search this section for topics about books, but unfortunatelly the forum software considers the word "books" to be too common and won't perform the search. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

My first contact with nihonto came in 1992 while I was having a long conversation with a few other art collectors in a small antique shop owned by a friendly chap who didn't minded us hanging out in his place during the evenings. Suddenly, a guy came in carrying something long wrapped in a leather cover. He opened the cover and pulled out a nice looking katana in koshirae. He showed it to the owner of the shop, who was generally clueless about weapons (his expertise domains being paintings and old furniture) and who offered him next to nothing without even looking at the blade. ( I think he just didn't wanted anything to do with it). The guy made a face that said everything and started putting the katana back in the cover. Then the owner of the shop asked us if we have any interest in this item. One older guy, who knew a few thing about ancient weapons (and who was also known as being a really sharp bargain hunter) looked carefully at the blade and offered the guy 200$. Obviously the guy knew it was worth more, so he started again to pack it. At this point I asked to see it. Was pretty much clueless about nihonto at that time but the katana really screamed quality and I already had the older guy's offer in mind (from what I knew about him it ment that the sword was worth at least 800$ on a fast sale). So I asked the guy how much he wanted for the katana and he said with a rather faint voice 500$. Which clearly ment that I could have it for 300, maximum 350$. I had the money in my pocket and was getting ready to offer 300 when I realised that, up to the point, I looked only at the sword but barelly gave a look to the seller. So I started to look and I realised he was one of those people who by no means could have inherited this item. On top of that, he was practically unable to look me in the eyes (keep in mind that I was fresh out the University at the time, while this guy was well in his 30's) . So, acting on impulse, I just handed him back the sword saying it was too much. Obviously, I had regrets for about 10 years. After all weird things happen and sometimes idiots find treasures in granma's attic. At a point I even bought (cheap) a WWII naval Japanese sword, even if I totally knew it wasn't nihonto, just to take the damn "missed opportunity" out of my mind. Then, I met the Japanese ambassador in my country at a reception and, while talking about his experience in the country, he told me that 10 years ago, while he was a recently appointed attache, he had a daishō stolen from his rented appartment by someone who climbed the first floor balcony. While I never saw the wakizashi, the timing made me pretty sure that I took the right decision back in the day. This incident somehow put me off for a while, but then, with the rise of the Internet market, I realised that it was possible to purchase nihonto in a legally safe manner. I started reading a bit about the subject, but didn't really picked it up until last year.

I understand your point. Was just trying to get an early warning (so to speak) to avoid running into a possible dead end while being involved into negociations for a purchase. Thanks anyway.

Thank you Chris. Can you elaborate a bit about the "more difficult" dealing with NBTHK?

I realise that the blade is important, not the paper. However, given the costs involved in obtaining such papers and the increase in the commercial value of the sword, I don't think that forged NBTHK or NTHK don't appear every now and then. Looking at the various types of NBTHK papers, I think it's clear that this is also a concern for the organisation, sice more recent papers have some aditional safety elements. This being said, what are the "tells" of the obvious fakes? Would the two organisations mentioned above respond in a timely manner if someone was to send and inquiry about a certain paper? Thanks in advance for the informations .

Thank you Brian.

Thank you, that's a very interesting material. Someone needs to theach pe people at archive.org what a pdf is

So basically some smiths bothered to leave some space where they knew that the mekugi ana would be drilled, while others didn't?

So, after all, is a mei that "avoids" the mekugi-ana a gimei or not? Or what are the exceptions? Inquiring minds need to know .

Thank you Jean, I got it.

Jean, I think this is an auction.

The saya is visible in the 6th, the 8th, the 9th and the 12th photo, but all the photos are of very poor quality, either the seller has no experience with Nihonto, as he claims, or he just made some crappy photos on purpose, to let the potential victims build up their hopes.

The only thing that comes to mind is that the katana "might have" some potential that requires a much better inspection and that a few guys are willing to overbid just for the chance to check it out (and then 99% return to the seller).

How can someone bid 2500+ $ based on these photos? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samurai-Sword-1 ... 3f21af79b1 No papers, polish gone, no signature, very simple saya in bad condition, nothing to write home about the tsuka either. Is the tsuba worth 2500$ or am I missing something really important about the katana itself? Considering the fact that the seller is offering 14 days money back guarantee maybe someone (actually some people) is/are willing to play a free lottery?

Maybe they did some fracking in the area and he drinked the water I was just having massive fun by browsing ebay swords up to a very unreasonable hour, but didn't got to this one yet

Denis, don't worry, I'm not going away. I merely asked for the topic to be closed for the reason already mentioned. I'm not the over-sensitive type but I don't want to wind people up without gaining anything in the process. That's all.

Denis, what makes you think that I don't know the basic Japanese vocabulary relevant for Nihonto? It's not that hard to learn 100 words when you already speak two foreign languages. Having the reflex to use them in a casual conversation is a different thing. It appears to me that my optimistic atitude raised a lot of negativism and maybe at this point it's better that this topic is closed. Again a deep thank you to all those who contributed in a positive manner. D'accord

It's like you read my mind Any volunteers?

Thank you guys for all the good advice I realise that purchasing a sword and having it papered afterwise is far more expensive then buying a similar sword that already has papers. To be honest, Tony's Wakizashi made me optimistic about the chances to purchase something with decent mounts within my budget. If that one (with papers) was so hard to sell for 800 pounds, I can imagine that 1000 pounds could get me something a bit better if I have enough patience and some luck. No I'm not kidding and I don't think my english is perfect either. I also speak french to a reasonable level but lack the sword vocabulary past epee and sabre

I think that, at this point, the safest bet would be to attend a few big sword shows in Europe, where I could meet some of the experienced members of the board and have a look (under their guidance) at some swords. Unfortunatelly location combined with work and family commitments leave little room for such approach, even if I found someone willing to help at this level. With this ruled out, I must confess I definitelly don't see myself reading books for the next 10 years. However I have a good list of books (some of them already in the mail) and I will try to get in touch with the local museums and see if I can arrange to view some of the Japanese swords they might have in their collections. Probably a long shot too but I know a few people so I'll see how it goes. Again thank you all for the advice.

It's bookmarked for quite some time, a link at the bottom of the main page of the site leaded me to this forum

Thank you guys. It's not that the advice received here is different from what I was expecting in the common sense department. I fully appreciate this kind of advice, but I was hoping for a bit more then that. Some practical advice about how to spot fatal flaws that may not be obvious in a picture for example. Things like that.

Sorry you see it this way. I'm far from being all knowing (or secretly believing that I am). I was just trying to point out the fact that you were doing about coins the same mistake that you believed I was doing about Nihonto. Believe it or not, but someone who has a lot of background in antique collection is better equipped to learn the very basics then someone who is touching the first time this vast domain. I'm sure this doesn't apply to me alone and that other members could confirm this. Other then that, I thank you for the advice given, which shows a lot of common sense. Again, sorry if you were offended in any way, this was not my intention.

Thank you Adam, that's very close to what I'm hoping for. Well, unfortunatelly simply I cannot take your approach, mostly for practical reasons. However I fully understand and agree with your argument. Putting it in my words: "one may manage to buy a decent (or even a good) sword by using common sense, but that isn't going to make him a Nihonto collector." However, my personal opinion is that you're going to have better results at learning if you own something you can study. And if that "something" isn't a piece of crap, of course. I totally agree that in-depth knowledge requires many years of research. This is valid with pretty much every domain of human activity, let alone with antiquities. However I totally disagree that other areas of antique collecting will not prepare me one bit for this. I definitelly wouldn't chew up a cheap chinese copy, for example . Of course, that doesn't mean that I could tell a $100.000 high-end blade from a good condition $5000 average blade produced in the same area and age by a lesser maker, hut let's face it, my budget isn't going to put me in such dilemmas :D . To be honest I was hoping for some basic rules of thumb rather then for general, common sense advice.

Keith, your affirmation about coins is valid (to a certain degree, but I won't get into splitting straws) when it comes to modern coins. In regard to ancient coins it is simply false. Ancient coins (even if some of them produced in large numbers) were individually and manually produced using a coin die that was, in it's turn, manually engraved. Even when the same worker was using the same coin die, the result was far from being identical from piece to piece. Some are not centered, some are struck uneven and so on (yes, back in the day they used a hammer to strike the upper side of the die) . More important, coin dies, even for the same type produced in the same mint, were far from having the same quality. Usually a well-known artist would carve the first dies (used to create a small "specimen" series presented to the ruler and so on) then less skilled artists would replicate his work as long as the respective type was issued. Sometimes a ruler would not be pleased with the first dies and would bring another artist to give it a try, but the first series would survive. It goes on and on. As a result, for the same type of coin, you can have pieces that are a world apart in term of quality, even if the condition is similar. Take a close look at these two tetradrachms issued by Demetrios Poliokertes at the Amphipolis mint, probably in the same year, and you're going to understand what I mean: Being at the level where I can understand and appreciate this kind of difference, I hope you'll understand why I believe to be able to avoid really gross mistakes when it comes to Tosogu. I think I gave ample proof that I'm not approaching this as an accountant . But of course you might see it completelly different then I do. As for the chances to get everything in one package, one can only hope Correct me if I'm wrong, but avoiding fakes can be done even with 0 knowledge, only by using common sense and having good purchasing habits. For example, if you buy a sword that was advertised by a reputable seller on this forum (with all the relevant photos posted for the general public to see) the chances to end up buying a fake are slim to none. Of course this won't be a bargain, as bargains don't end up being sold to the noobest member of the forum after everyone saw the item and then the pictures, but it won't be a fake either. The truth is a tricky fellow and usually it has more then one face To keep to your doctor comparison, it's more like a brain surgeon being put in the situation to perform without any preparation some very complicated abdominal surgery. He may manage or not to do the right thing, depending on his cross-discipline training, his personal skill, his team and last but not least, his luck. Anyway, please resta asured that I don't see your comments as being negative. . You know little about me and the fact that english isn't my main language isn't going to help me project the correct image on short notice.