pascal

Bonjour Jean glad to see you around... Of course I will share things, otherwise I would not be here....ne ? As I said all my papers and notes are in my suitcase which Air France has not yet delivered.... Regarding the Dai Tokugawa Exhibition ...I found that the blades were badly lit...which obliges the connoissseur to bend quite low, or even nearly kneel on the floor to be able to scrutinize the details.... I wonder if this was intended by the National Museum Organiers, to see the amateurs bend or kneel in front of such treasures.... because they are truely treasures no doubt about that...I did not buy the all-Japanese catalogue : too heavy in my suitcase... which eventuelly I did not get...lol I do not remember which exhibition (maybe the small Shrine exhibition in Nara ?) there were even some late Heian blades.... This was my first trip to Japan.... and I deeply think that this was a much greater investment for me in Japanese knowledge than purchasing a blade (for a same price).... I would strongly recommend anyone who has not been there, to definitely go and visit, and feel the whiff of ancient temples and castles where these pieces of arts were built for their beauty...and for killing ... in a word : "I shall return".... Have a nice day Pascal

Paul it was great to see you in Tokyo. Regarding the Tokugawa exhibition it is very crowded with possible long lines. The exhibition is definitely worth a visit ! I went there one hour before closing time and waited only 10mn outside. Inside it was quite crowded though. I may mention as well the exhibition in Nara which started last week, near the botanical Garden : not much but : some swords (some being National Treasures), but not many, and some armors. I cannot set my hands on the leaflet as Air France lost my luggage ! And photos were fobiden.... Sorry. best regards to all

I could not concur more with what was said... I do not want to be over pessimistic.... but one has to know the risks and rewards before doing anything...especially if you value your blade..... here in France I have seen a very nice blade ruined because in the course of straightening, two hagire appeared...too bad... just because what has been said : the hamon is very stiff and tends to break and canot bend as easily as the other parts...which is the very purpose of the weapon...ne ?.... Now this is a very nice blade for iaido .... so take a minimum caution before doing anything.... My one EurosCent worth from experience.... Ganbatte kudasai ! Pascal

Sorry I was away for few days.... yes Darcy you are right I think : I have another older shirasaya with a sayagaki made at the beginning of 20th century it seems. So it is likely that Tanobe Sensei , just by reading the other sayagaki, put in his own sayagaki some of the history... So he quite rightly put that he "saw" (i reconized the kanji 見(る)　for "mi"ru) and not what he feels, nor what he estimates.... If I can I will make some photos of the other one.... very different writing... and maybe some old kanjis which are barely used in present times.... I haven't looked at it since I received it from Japan.... :? Hope you are well....and , indeed, many thanks for both of you for your insights and time.... Best regards. Pascal

Darcy, Sorry for the side ways quality of the photos... I tried to do my best... And Koichi san and you, many thanks for the time you devoted in solving my little problem.... I will work on this now.... Actually when I bought this blade, it was accompanied by another sayagaki, and I knew this other one had to do with histoy, and was dated early 20th century. But I did not make photos of this other one.... maybe this would enlighten your views ? have a very nice day, and again, Domo arigatou gozaimasu... Pascal

Sumimasen..... here are the pics... I am not an expert obviously.... So I will try again..... Sorry for the quality...I am not an expert at shooting photos either.... Mon cher Jean.... I did not mention anything about the blade because I wanted to keep it somewhat discreet waiting for answers on the sayagaki.... Have a very nice day.... Mata kondo.... a bientot Jean Amitiés..soshite....domo arigatou Pascal

Good morning list.... Minna san Konnichiwa.... I have been away a long time, although my interest has not vanished.... great to be back ! I recently bought a blade from Japan ; upon the advice of my good friend Jean , here in Paris, I had Tanobe Sensei write a Sayagaki.... I am learning Japanese, but it is already difficult with everyday conversation and reading...but these kanjis...give my western neurones some headache sometimes.... sumimasen... ちょっと おうえん ください .... Can anyone give me the signification on those 3 photos ? I have other photos, and more precise too... but I tried to reduce the size...sorry if I failed. Please inform me if I did something wrong... have a very nice day... Domo arigatou Gozaimasu... Pascal PS : I am in Japan for the first time in late October- early nov (Tokyo, kamakura, Kyoto, Nara, Osaka) .. I'd be delighted to receive off list suggestions...

hello... How are you Darcy.... ? I do not have good eyes, nor good neurons I think... It would help with a translation of all these interesting caracters ... En effet, I have a sayagaki, on which I will try some working, although it will be cumbersome I know.... but maybe get back here to bother you for some help...if I may... best to you all

Cher Jean....dear John, the reverse as well..... and I do hope so...... lol A bientot

I concur with Jean in what he wrote....However I have a sukesada blade with such a pristine tang, and with only one mekugiana.... and dated 1581....Hence my suggestion of a possible sue Bizen (i.e. late koto) blade in my previsous post. I have yet to comare the meis. As for signature, I am sure that Darcy B. will not resent me in throwing what he wrote about Bischu and other Osafune Sukesada Bizen smiths. It is rather long for a post, but I think it is interesting, as it should apply to others meis, than only sukesada.... here it is straight from the horese's mouth (and again, thanks Darcy) : 1. Longer signatures which include personal names generally indicate higher quality blades made for a specific order. 2. The use of Bishu rather than Bizen is supposed to indicate a lower quality (bundle sword/mass produced) 3. There was something somewhere about the positioning of the "ju" character before or after Osafune, but I cant remember it or find the reference, someone else may be able to help on that one As said above these are general points and there are always exceptions : beautiful swords exist with signatures beginning Bishu and some average looking ones with full signatures. As always look at the blade and work before the signature and try to judge it on what you see there. As said often on this Board : sword quality does confirm the signature. There is an example of a Bishu Osafune Sukesada that is Juyo, proving the point. In general, the Sue Bizen smiths did use a scheme with their signatures that provides a rule of thumb to judge the intended market of their swords. 1. Sukesada / Bishu Osafune Sukesada, you will see this on the lowest class of blade. The Juyo above is Hikobeinojo Sukesada who was the earliest of the great Sukesada smiths and he may have been following through on the older period signing style. Not clear. Generally considered mass produced, but there seems to be a lot of variation between really weak stuff and things that will be very nice and what you would expect would be Tokubetsu Hozon... and of course the one Juyo. Very hard to tell, take it on a case by case basis but know it is generally a negative indicator. 2. Bizen no Kuni Ju Osafune Sukesada... middle class blade. 3. Bizen no Kuni Ju Osafune John Sukesada... in this case, John is signing his personal name, expending special effort and time and attributing it as his personal work in this really big workshop of Sukesada smiths. This indicates a special-made order for a client and is always high class work. 4. Bizen no Kuni Ju Osafune John Sukesada Made For Bob... same as above, but they've added the client's name and this is considered the highest form they did. When you scan through the Juyo index, you will see that there are a fair number of daitos signed (2), but I think no tantos. All the tantos from Yosozaemon Sukesada are signed (3). The trick with Osafune is that pre-Sue Bizen the smiths signed "Bizen Osafune Ju Whomever" if they used this pattern, and in Sue Bizen they move the Ju up so it is "Bizen Ju Osafune Whomever." People faking Yosozaemonnojo, Genbeinojo and Hikobeinojo often missed this detail and flipped it around into the "correct" spot which is "wrong" for the Sue Bizen smiths. In the Shinto period the smiths refered to "correct" form but this should be checked. The way the Sue Bizen guys say it, is like they have adopted Osafune into their name. Osafune Sukesada, living in Bizen, rather than Sukesada, living in Osafune town, Bizen province. end of quote. Hope this is of interest and help you out.... Pascal

There were at time several smiths who signed sukesada during Bizen times...i.e before the big flloding at the end of 16th century..... so, apart the famous ones (Yosozaemon for example) it is difficult to precisely trace them...... Yours could be koto...I do not know..... In adition, in order to check the mei, would you have a close up on the signature ? And the global photo of the blade and hamon + jigane could help in tracing things... As for the aoi mon.I am puzzled... just my two cents ideas. Pascal