Alex A

A few things I find interesting about these tsuba. Lack of Hitsu-ana............ suggests older pieces Patina/remnant lacquer...............reminds me of older pieces. Diameter.............again, reminds me of older pieces. Thickness.............older pieces again. Sukashi, appear to be not of the time period = ? (Ko-Tosho with sukashi added later?) or (simply later Tosho tsuba?). leaves me wondering, interesting though.

Well Sergie, I don't mind making an idiot out of myself (usually gets folk with more knowledge on board) Heres my initial thoughts (just thoughts). Both tsuba look genuine and quite old, like the tsuba that Dirk presented, they have remnant lacquer and show oxidation. As for the rudder design. Not something I would expect to see on a "KO" Tosho tsuba and I would be wary of it being described as "KO", although maybe the tsuba is "KO", but the design added later ? As for the dragonfly. You see dragonfly on Tosho tsuba like this, but do you ever see ones as elaborate on "KO" Tosho ?. Something you would need to research. I prefer the dragonfly tsuba. As said, just my initial thoughts. I think both are genuine tsuba, but will they paper to "KO" Tosho?. Its times like this I really become a fan of Hozen certificates. Look forward to an education maybe. Cheers, interesting thread.

Its when I see headlines like this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/01/new-years-eve-murders-four-young-men-stabbed-death-london/ Then read about a "knife amnesty", then talk of getting to the route of the problem......................... just talk. Does my head in. Another topic, I suppose, but I do worry about how much I invest in swords, with the way things seem to be are heading.

The remnant lacquer + oxidation = a bit of reassurance as to age. Lets face it, Hozen helps too.

Its standard procedure for folk new to swords, the reason I move everything out of the way if friends come around. I remember doing it myself when I first started collecting and a gent saying "glad that's not my sword", live and learn. No doubt Mike will put him right. Who knows, if Ricks into swords, might be reading this

Cringed a bit when Rick took the sword out of the saya.

Hi Sergie, I know the tsuba I presented was not Tosho, I was referring to when the design was used. I hadn't seen this design on earlier tsuba before, but then found an example in Sasano,s.

Whats he saying exactly with regards not matching the description?

2.3mm thickness for an Edo Tosho revival piece did struck me as being unusual. Most ive seen are over 3mm. Out of curiosity, anyone seen "authentic" Edo Tosho at this thickness before ? I suppose sometimes you need to look that little bit harder, interesting.

Just noticed an interesting site with a tsuba with a very similar butterfly design, says 17th century http://varshavskycollection.com/kamakura-bori-tsuba/ Edit to add, also just noticed another very similar design butterfly on page 21 of Sasanos Masterpieces Described as ko-tosho, late 15th centry, he states the design was modified over the years. I think if you sent it to shinsa, it would come back Tosho, not Ko-Tosho.

Sorry Brian/gents, was in a giddy mood earler

Very interesting collecting scene Chris, i particuluarly like the cocoanuts

Hi Darcy, good to hear from you. I think you were quoting me with "someone should tell Tsuruta San". I actually said to Jean "have you mentioned it to Aoi". Simply to get a straight answer as to why the blade dont match the papers.

Hi Luis, believe me, when it comes to parting with hard earned cash..............I'm WARY Bare in mind that none of us doing this exercise were actually buying, makes hell of a difference to how you look at swords. Aoi,s consigner info -3. In order to make a payment to consignor from us immediately after the item has been sold, we cannot accept cancellation on items indicated as ‘consignment sale’ for any reason They don't give refunds..........usually. In their defence, they recently refunded me for a sword I was not happy with, that was on consignment. Paid with credit card, wonder if that helped...........dunno.

Ye, cheers Darcy Aye consigned items, be more wary in future..........thanks!

Well, thanks for bringing it to our attention Its a shocker that one.

Have you mentioned it to Aoi Jean?

I looked at it Luis, but ending way past my bed time, the lure of a good nights sleep seemed to outweigh it.

Aoi guarantee Hozen, whilst the sword is already with Aoi, shinsa is not expensive. Maybe someone just looking for a Ryo wazamono smith example, a draw for some. It was almost a katana in length, which I think is also a draw for folk on a budget shopping in the wak range. Not a great example, but overall, I think someone did ok. As for polish, not everyones bothered about a "minty" example, and perhaps they know someone who don't charge an arm and a leg, should they wish to do so.

Cheers Bazza, picked one up from Amazon, 694 ages, £15............only browsed through it for now, but a good buy.

Cheers Uwe, these are always good fun and educational. This is the example I saw. https://www.aoijapan.com/katanaawataguchi-oumi-kami-tadatsuna2nd-generation The choji/suguha, nakago condition had me looking at late Bizen, but unfortunately, not Tadatsuna (learning curve), id noticed the Suguha start on Yokoyama before now. Thanks.

^

Turned out well Chris, I now see why folk go for these blades, might have the next one I see That's if I ever get my hands on one of those ******* Slough books!!!

Easy?, aye, if you have one Don't look here if your doing quiz.

Hi Luis, Machi-Okuri is a type of suriage (shortening of the blade) http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/suriage.html Its difficult looking at blades and judging them from photos, but this is just a thought I got whilst taking a look at the nakago. First I thought it could be Machi-okuri, by imagining the habaki in the correct place with regards the bo-hi, two mekugi ana backs this idea up, you see it a lot on Sue Bizen katate-uchigatana. With machi-okuri though, I was thinking the nakago would also be longer than it appears to be. Looking further, when you do this though, it appears the 2nd mekugi-ana is too near the tsuba, so, I was thinking "MAYBE" it was a proper suriage job OR after a bit more thought, had maybe Aikuchi fittings in the past. As I said though, a pain doing it from photos, but I get the impression the nakago has been messed with.