Alex A

Whats he saying exactly with regards not matching the description?

2.3mm thickness for an Edo Tosho revival piece did struck me as being unusual. Most ive seen are over 3mm. Out of curiosity, anyone seen "authentic" Edo Tosho at this thickness before ? I suppose sometimes you need to look that little bit harder, interesting.

Just noticed an interesting site with a tsuba with a very similar butterfly design, says 17th century http://varshavskycollection.com/kamakura-bori-tsuba/ Edit to add, also just noticed another very similar design butterfly on page 21 of Sasanos Masterpieces Described as ko-tosho, late 15th centry, he states the design was modified over the years. I think if you sent it to shinsa, it would come back Tosho, not Ko-Tosho.

Sorry Brian/gents, was in a giddy mood earler

Very interesting collecting scene Chris, i particuluarly like the cocoanuts

Hi Darcy, good to hear from you. I think you were quoting me with "someone should tell Tsuruta San". I actually said to Jean "have you mentioned it to Aoi". Simply to get a straight answer as to why the blade dont match the papers.

Hi Luis, believe me, when it comes to parting with hard earned cash..............I'm WARY Bare in mind that none of us doing this exercise were actually buying, makes hell of a difference to how you look at swords. Aoi,s consigner info -3. In order to make a payment to consignor from us immediately after the item has been sold, we cannot accept cancellation on items indicated as ‘consignment sale’ for any reason They don't give refunds..........usually. In their defence, they recently refunded me for a sword I was not happy with, that was on consignment. Paid with credit card, wonder if that helped...........dunno.

Ye, cheers Darcy Aye consigned items, be more wary in future..........thanks!

Well, thanks for bringing it to our attention Its a shocker that one.

Have you mentioned it to Aoi Jean?

I looked at it Luis, but ending way past my bed time, the lure of a good nights sleep seemed to outweigh it.

Aoi guarantee Hozen, whilst the sword is already with Aoi, shinsa is not expensive. Maybe someone just looking for a Ryo wazamono smith example, a draw for some. It was almost a katana in length, which I think is also a draw for folk on a budget shopping in the wak range. Not a great example, but overall, I think someone did ok. As for polish, not everyones bothered about a "minty" example, and perhaps they know someone who don't charge an arm and a leg, should they wish to do so.

Cheers Bazza, picked one up from Amazon, 694 ages, £15............only browsed through it for now, but a good buy.

Cheers Uwe, these are always good fun and educational. This is the example I saw. https://www.aoijapan.com/katanaawataguchi-oumi-kami-tadatsuna2nd-generation The choji/suguha, nakago condition had me looking at late Bizen, but unfortunately, not Tadatsuna (learning curve), id noticed the Suguha start on Yokoyama before now. Thanks.

^

Turned out well Chris, I now see why folk go for these blades, might have the next one I see That's if I ever get my hands on one of those ******* Slough books!!!

Easy?, aye, if you have one Don't look here if your doing quiz.

Hi Luis, Machi-Okuri is a type of suriage (shortening of the blade) http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/suriage.html Its difficult looking at blades and judging them from photos, but this is just a thought I got whilst taking a look at the nakago. First I thought it could be Machi-okuri, by imagining the habaki in the correct place with regards the bo-hi, two mekugi ana backs this idea up, you see it a lot on Sue Bizen katate-uchigatana. With machi-okuri though, I was thinking the nakago would also be longer than it appears to be. Looking further, when you do this though, it appears the 2nd mekugi-ana is too near the tsuba, so, I was thinking "MAYBE" it was a proper suriage job OR after a bit more thought, had maybe Aikuchi fittings in the past. As I said though, a pain doing it from photos, but I get the impression the nakago has been messed with.

Tadatsuna2 Ps, not a copycat

That's what I thought Peter, Mino. Shortened.

Hi Martin, it was on a Japanese site back around last August, didn't last long before it sold. He had a lot to live up to by way of his father, a good sword though, in ko chogi-midare. Ive had a quick look, not there, but there are a few other examples.

Sometimes they can make sense, an example. I recently came across a papered ubu mumei Shinshinto Naokatsu 2nd katana, the work was just like Naokatsu 1st. Signed papered Naokatsu 1st katana = £6500 ++ If I remember correctly, the unsigned Naokatsu 2nd, I could have got for £2800, if id have had spare cash at that time I would have bought it. All about the money, sometimes need to make exceptions. Good signed Koto are out of my league financially, I am now looking at Shinshinto and even Shinsakuto, so much more info. Something about a date on a sword, adds something special, always been partial to decent signed and dated Sue Bizen in the past. As for Ubu mumei, lots of theories, my latest of which is that some are not signed, simply because they didn't need to be, simples. Two man job, busy forge, can see it being a proper chore.

I stumbled across some pics I saved from the NMB a good while ago, I cant see the OP,s tsuba being sat on any of them, too nice, but who knows. I cant seem to find the thread where these pics came from, but here they are anyway. If I remember correctly they came by way of Eric T, not sure which book it is though.

Looks an interesting book, so ordered myself one, cheers for that Peter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kendo-Culture-Sword-Alexander-Bennett/dp/0520284372

I like Peters idea on a change in the way a tsuba is mounted, must explain a few with this odd shape. Interesting thread.