Alex A

In my humble experience Dan, when looking for answers and finding answers that are "too complicated" just to find an answer, sounds kind of an overly desperate quest for validation. Maybe time throw in the towel

Spent a bit of time on this the other day and was leaning towards Ko Aoe, maybe later. Though then read somewhere that horimono were pretty rare with this school, which kind of put me off. Anyways, thats where i was at.

Stephen, did consider that, good point. Dan. They are cast and were sat in an outdoor brick toilet at the bottom of my Grand folks garden for many years. They saw many variations in temp and conditions, as old tsuba do. Funnily enough, bumped into a video on youtube about how Japanese houses don't have central heating, apart from one small part of Japan. The guy was saying the houses in old times were murder in winter to keep warm. So if you have old iron like tsuba knocking about, you have to think about what they might of been through. Personally, i think your overthinking it.

Would suggest water has got into pores, corroded, frozen, expanded and pushed an hole in the surface. Like when your shocks on your car always brake in winter. Its what iron does.

Reminds me of a a 1920s dumbbell i have. No outer construction coating method as far as im aware, just one of those things.

That's the best piece of advice anyone can get here

This has been an interesting thread, seeing examples. To some maybe just another "Daisho" thread. We all have our own perspective, personally gained some clarity on the subject and at the same time asked myself a lot of questions. Seeing swords from 1985 with Hozen was somewhat a surprise. Left asking myself about how many papered "Edo" koshirae are actually from the "Edo"?. There really is no certain way of knowing without some kind of provenance. People are interested in "Daisho" nowadays, obviously by such discussions. Assume people were interested after the Edo period, 1880, 1900, 1940, 1960 etc etc. So without provenance then i think its fair to say that a papered koshirae doesn't necessarily mean it is an old antique Edo assembly. You can look for clues, as discussed already, stuff like tsuka and saya that appear to have no age. I guess you need to take a real close look, whether been restored, whatever. Then you take a closer look at the swords. The pair Guido own being as close to the real deal as your ever going to find. When you think about it, it wouldn't be difficult in this day and age for someone with access to a lot of paired Daisho fittings to put something together. Wouldn't be difficult to find two swords, lets say a Tadayoshi Katana and wakizashi of similar type. Not something i would take on as know what a pain in the ass finding the right tsuba with the correct fit can be, let alone finding two tsuba to fit two swords well. On top of that all the costs for other fittings and assembly. Personally, now don't see anything wrong with this, would see it as legit as buying a papered Daisho that has no provenance, so long as its done well with good fittings. Also wondering why we don't see so many with provenance. Occasionally come across Brit antique weapons of the same era with some kind of family provenance. One of the reasons that springs to mind is that dealers simply split them up to increase profit. Anyways, been interesting and finally got my head around what i would be willing to live with and be clearer on how to question what is out there in the future.

I guess flash saya like that may not have appealed to your everyday Samurai. Had to make an edit above, reading more into the papers. Its a punched dot date top left.

Stumbled across this fine set, very nice koshirae which is papered with NBTHK Blades are also papered, though not on the same paper. There is a different hamon on each blade. Two ana on the Wakizashi which i find interesting. Daimyou daishō by Moritsugu | Mandarin Mansion

Lots of people here talk the talk, just nice to see someone walk the walk. Also extremely kind of them to share their collection from time to time. As said, some folks here moan that all we see is junk and there is never ever any good stuff. Well, there you are, good stuff. People should be able to present quality items here without a running commentary that ruins it. To me, just comes across as envy and i wish they would just shut up and go and read a book or something.

Il be honest, not really looked at blades and assume gimei without looking further. Even so, still a fair deal. For a display daisho, swords have to be of no importance, otherwise price goes sky high. Swords are adequate for purpose, for me.

Think two swords like that deserve a nice Japanese stand. Don't have be old and megabucks, see them on Fleebay at reasonable prices, oldish wood stands. Ps, for someone just wanting a display without wanting to spend a fortune, then i guess the Daisho i linked could suffice. Also, never going to know when those two swords were put together for sure. May have been late Edo, may have been together in other koshirae previously. I guess one would need to take a real close look for further clues. Evaluate all the fittings and fit and wear. Says in "old polish", just noticed that.

Dan, whats "bottle type" ? New to me that one. Edit, see what you mean now, like old milk bottles.

Ps Adam, like your Daisho, don't like the stand lol (only joking)

Found this one. Think its in with a chance of actually being a legit old daisho. The saya appear Edo. The blades are actually quite similar in style with similar hamon, as though someone preferred that feature. All ana in the tsuba have been filled in, apart from the one needed for tha Kozuka. In other words, dont appear to be any old cobbled tsuba thrown together. Thinking tsuka is orginal with re-wrapped ito. There is a reference to at least they were together in 1958. This Handachi style also became fashionable around the end of the Edo period, so maybe. Japanese sword Touken Komachi, Daisho, Koshirae Katana : signed as Bishu Osafune Iesuke, Wakizashi : Mumei

To be honest. If i do have swords worthy of presentation here, couldn't be doing with the likes of folks that don't collect swords, but books commenting. You know the type, just nothing better do in life than rain on the parade, sad individuals,. We can all make are own minds up about what we like and don't like, a bit like when you walk around a museum or exhibition. I don't need a running commentary from folks i have no respect for and consider what they say wrong in many circumstances, just want to look at more swords, if that's ok, thank you very much. sir, Some of us just want to see swords, good swords, papered swords by good smiths, without interference, Not a lot to ask for. How's about a "post your sword thread"?, no comments Collecting swords is an individual and personal quest, that's all there is to it. Lack of comment may encourage many collectors to participate, we will see more swords.

Would imagine its some kind of cast metal, the easier to cast the better. Just speculating but would guess its not magnetic.

Hope I'm not like Jacques lol Dont get me wrong, i like it. Just the blade, in the images cant really see anything other than grey metal, kind of lifeless metal.

The actual blade though?, I can only assume that its not a real forged blade with horimono at that size. That thought, rains on the parade. Surprised you guys getting so worked up over something in a picture. Couldn't help but think that if in hand may be disappointed. Just a thought. It is made in China after all.

Personally, to encourage more of the same, Would have it purely non comment, then hopefully we would see more swords. Just an idea, As cant be doing with the BS Sword, description, papers, end of.

If it don't sell soon Kirk i promise i will buy it back. From memory, the theme was something like cross bars. Ok, condition aint great but its like 500 years old. Il tell you what i was looking for when i bought this tsuba. Old and large, i wanted a tsuba like what you see on the sword in the movie the Seven Samurai, to me that's what it is, plain and simple. Something authentic of the era. For a tsuba in great condition of that size and age then you could double plus the price. In the ana, you can see the folded steel.

Hi Lewis, It highlights the problems mentioned above. As in documentation, wear etc. Looks like something put together in recent years. Not that there is anything wrong with that for display, just has no old history/provenance. Did see a daisho a few years ago that i thought could be legit, worn ito etc though the swords were crap. Must be remembered that finding a good fitting antique tsuba for a sword can be difficult, finding Daisho tsuba that will fit 2 swords could be a complete pain in the ass. If assessing an old "daisho" for originality, would look to the tsuba ana/fit to see if they had been messed with recently. Just an investigation thought.

So glad Gary has posted his collection, not just now but over recent years. Great swords which have not gone unnoticed. Cheers for that, appreciated.

Exactly. Some people moan there is not enough "high class" swords, and when they do they have put up with this **** Explains why we don't see more.

Typical nonsense. FFS It is what it is, stop making it about your opinion, as always. Attention seeking at its best. Grow up, Ps, if your a physicist I'm an Astro nought No one with such intelligence would argue over trivial BS the way you do