Alex A

You could pull many examples up but i wont, as folks are trying to sell them. Just don't feel like anything special any more.

History, Evolution and Meaning of NBTHK Japanese sword papers (nihontocraft.com) AUTHENTIC & BEAUTIFUL Japanese SWORDS AND FITTINGS (touken-matsumoto.jp)

I will add link in other thread

Hi Michael, The issue for me is the number blades i see with TH that are plain average blades by average smiths. You only need to look around the Japanese dealer sites. As mentioned in the other thread, Shinshinto waks by average smiths, don't see why Hozen was not enough for such a sword. Looked at Aoi a while ago and nearly all the waks were TH. Several or more years ago you would see them as the minority.

A few folks mentioned they have noticed TH standards recently Anyone have any thoughts on the subject ?

Its a pity no one has started a topic regarding folks thoughts on the subject. I'm not talking about the sword above as not really looked at it When you start seeing average Shinshinto waks by average smiths with TH you got toi start thinking what's going on ? In fact, il start a topic rather than carry on here

Totally agree, feels like someone moved the goal post.

I prefer yours, I would get niggled by that exuberant Naginata. Nice though.

Very nice Colin. Seldom see good Samurai sculptures. Remember looking years ago and the internet was full of cheap resin sculptures. Did you find it in the UK?

If you want a cheap daisho for display then these are fine, you wont look at the blades and think wow though. As you might if you put all that money into a wak by a good smith. Horses for courses. Ps, with the daisho. Inspect images and ask about any flaws (disclosed and possible undisclosed) that may be too bad to live with.

Thanks Peter!

Aye, he brought a lot to the forum, going to miss that a lot. A real gent, always friendly.

Shocked to hear. Never really talked swords with him, just knew him as one of the guys He will be missed by many, very sad.

The Naotane gets me curious, one that would be good to see Thanks

Was looking for cannons but then started looking at Bronze stuff Get why folks like them.

Another good site, a few on here. Large one with Ivory, says exempt I don't know much about the rules, antique should be ok??, dunno "Please note: Registered as exempt under the Ivory Act 2018 REF: EKK34L2T" https://www.sellinga...ist-genryusai-seiya/

One here, all bronze, don't mention who made it. Can find some good antiques in here, for anyone interested. https://www.antiques...gers_c1880/as755a199

Agree, splitting hairs.

Michael, well aware about how some mei were preserved, quite a rarity really. Again, lets think about the majority. You don't see them too often, take a look around all the dealer sites. As for the mei and it still being an opinion. Your not seeing the wood for the trees, so to speak. First look at the blade characteristics (kantei), then the mei. Folks can reasonably attribute a blade without a mei to a school by judging the blade characteristics, the mei then backs it up. Who signed the sword is irrelevant as we will never know for sure unless we were stood there at the time, we know about Dai mei etc. We do have examples of mei to compare with but still you will see discrepancies for reasons we may never know. The FACT is they are period signed (name) with ware matching that of the rest of the nakago. More often than not we can confirm mei. Other times (as mentioned) you will see NBTHK give allowances. Its not a "one size fits all". Its not just fake mei either, folks fake cutting test inscriptions, the NBTHK will not award Hozen if they suspect a sword has a fake cutting test, even if the mei appears genuine. You look at a sword, mei, if it all adds up............ then it all adds up. By the way, there could be many folks involved in a swords creation. Take mass produced blades of the Sengoku as an example. The reason we so many Sukesada with dodgy looking mei, but still with Hozen. Deliberate forgeries of the Late Edo. An experienced collector or enthusiast will detect something that don't quite add up. That could be anything from the colour of the steel, the nakago ana and on to the condition and patina of the nakago and so on etc etc. Ps, a mei added after suriage. Well, its a mei added after suriage so would be in the wrong place and stick out like a sore thumb, you would only have to look at the sugata.

On the point of "gimei being a part of a blades history" Well, suppose it is. The problem i have and wished id made it more clear earlier in the thread and it seems to have gone unmentioned. If "HISTORY" is so "IMPORTANT" to some folks then why the hell would you buy a sword without an original mei?. Think about how much HISTORY is lost with gimei or mumei. and just becomes OPINION. Yes, for a lot of swords we can get reasonably accurate opinions but they will always be opinions. Then we have the oddballs, oddballs that even have different organisations giving different opinions. With a mei, bang, there it is. Smith/line of smiths Time they worked. Not, "attributed to whatever" Now you have some REAL HISTORY added to the sword. They signed it for Gods sake! There are reasons why folks would buy a gimei sword and i get that. Colin mentions old koshirae, well even id be tempted as it adds a lot, other than just the sword. I would love to see a gimei blade so spectacular that it prevents me buying a genuine signed blade of matching quality, as there are many out there. Ps, Well aware there are some fantastic and very old blades out there where the mei was lost to suriage (well, we don't actually know whether a sword was signed or not as its cut down lol). Im not dismissing such blades here, im purely talking blades that could or should have an original mei.

Hi Paz, Buying swords at shows i find really difficult. You never quite know what's going to turn up. You might see a signed Koto Mino tanto which is relatively straightforward to work out but then on the other hand come across an Hizen wakizashi by a well known smith which appears ok but making a call on the spot i find impossible, especially if it seems pricy. Then a case of taking pictures of the mei and going home to do your homework. Kind of annoying for the seller. It never quite works out. Back when i was first interested in swords then maybe gimei would not have been so much as an issue. Over the last few years ive become a bit of a minimalist regarding collecting. In the sense i don't want to accumulate anything of no meaning or anything outside of my collecting standards . Would end up selling eventually, so what's the point. Looking over some Japanese sites. I notice that gimei swords where the work is good and the mei in the ball park seem to sell fast. Often wondered whether these get snapped up by sellers wanting to sell them as Shoshin. If someone's knowledgeable enough to spot a diamond in the rough, even with a gimei then it depends how deep their pockets are. Personally,, too many hassles ahead for me in that respect. As i said earlier. Must have been a lot easier selling gimei to tourists at the end of the Edo period than it is today. Only ever bought one blade at a show, gimei in fact. Only bought it because it was very cheap A tourist piece http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/kuwana.html

Aye, in that situation you have to assume its gimei Even if the mei was a good match, perhaps some faker did a good job.

Id start with the blade itself, hamon, hada etc etc

No option for 15 times a day

Well, as for NBTHK being "all sacred", would you buy an expensive sword without papers ? I mentioned mei variance in my last post and don't need to read the article. Lots written on why mei can be so different and don't have the time or inclination to start digging it up. Made points about the "majority" but seems you didn't read that either. Like others here, seen so many "is this real?" threads where folk get told no, gimei. Basic kantei, blade first, too much emphasis on mei, especially FAKE mei. We are looking at this from two different angles, that's all. Anyways, made points, now better do some work lol