Alex A

I know nothing about them but im convinced, be interesting to see what others say. That hole looks punched. Dont feel like modern junk.

You would be surprised Dee, not all high end sword buyers are interested in learning much more than the name and date of the swordsmith. An expedition into knowledge was never on the horizon, just ownership. I guess that goes with a lot of sword buyers, not just high end.

Some good points Kirill.

Your obviously Rays friend, Brano. I can respect that. Maybe you sell him swords, dunno. Educated people can have educated discussions but they don't seem to have many at all. There is AMPLE OPPORTUNITY for higher quality sword discussion here but the space seems rarely taken up? Its like the folks that should be doing that kind of discussion prefer getting involved in discussions about lower tier swords, its strange. Maybe it makes for an easier life, dunno. By the way, i am not resorting to personal attacks. I am stating FACTS about why this thread has ended up the way it has ended up. If Rayan had more tact and wasn't his usual self, as he has been in the past. This would have been a peaceful thread. Id be more worried about losing new members to the forum and old ones that support it more than the usual suspect that has caused **** for years.

Some perspective for those that think the sun shines out of Rays ass, the penny dropped for me a while ago when i recognised a pattern. Pretty sure he used to be known here as "Kawa". I could be wrong but doubt it. Same old nonsense, had Kawa on ignore for years but couldn't help notice the same kind of disturbance Has anyone noticed the personal attacks he has been doing recently with Colin?, to which Colin has been the perfect gent and handled it more calmly than most would. Same years ago, seen it all before. If im correct then Kawa/Rayhan is the part of the reason some really knowledgeable people have been put off from returning here. Brian running the forum, i could understand why it makes sense to want to have folks with deep pockets hanging around, offering trinkets or whatever. That's great for the forum but not great for the others that have to put up with his overbearing personality. As said in this thread, people collect a wide range of varying quality swords. Jeez, ive been through everything on this journey. From Nanbokucho Nobukuni to Enomoto Sadayoshi and back round and a round through Yokoyama and Hizen and back down to Dotanuki and beyond. Some of the lesser regarded sword schools have been some of the best to own, for certain reasons. The Dotanuki, not known for their artistic merit, the sword i owned wasn't an arty farty sword but everyone loved it. It weighed a ton, a real clunker and i wish i still owned it, the NBTHK thought it worthy of Tokubetsu Hozen. That's the sword i sold to Guido, he was happy to own it. I own very good quality swords with TH and not so good quality without papers. One of my favourite swords is a Koto Mino tanto that is said to bring luck and i think it does, my son will get that. It has chips that i chose to leave as that's how i think it should stay. There is just something about it, i was meant to own it. The polish is perfect. I'm not really interested in Juyo swords for a few reasons. They are too expensive and i find great swords for a lot less, i dont need to chase those papers though at a push i could of done years ago. Though would that of made me happy?........... NO. We all know that buying stuff you cant afford leads to misery. Point being, no one needs to hear LOUD OVERBEARING ADVICE on what to buy, let folks ********enjoy their sword ownership in peace without the need to make them comply. People can be honest here, with some tact and sensitivity to how deep other folks pockets may be. PS FORGOT TO SAY. There is NOTHING at all to stop folks discussing high quality swords here. Various comments here like "there's not enough high quality sword conversation" or whatever. I don't get it, maybe start a topic, just an idea. Or is more fun to pester the bottom feeders with elitists ideology???????

I can see genuine antique swords becoming more expensive here, Mark. With hassles due to shipping and imports. You guys are very lucky.

Its just swords Rayhan, more to life than getting worked up over things you cant change. You have to accept that we are all different. To be honest, was more on your wavelength, from memory, but you are driving me the opposite way. You are having the opposite effect. There is a lesson to be learned. People need to find their own way, with a little bit of a nudge, not a kick up the ass.

I missed this post Colin, very much agree and that was my thoughts. Folks are attracted to Horimono, its clearly better than i thought.

I think some folks have lost touch with reality, hence head in the clouds. If id have been at an arms fair and seen the blade in hand and thought there was a chance of it taking a polish, id have been straight to the bank for what was paid. I cannot judge that blade from those images, whether it would polish. I dont know what school the blade is. I mentioned Dotanuki, partly because ive seen a lot of their swords with some rough hada, loose grain whatever. We dont know what it is. In the UK, you cannot buy a genuine UNPOLISHED Antique "Samurai Katana" for less than £2000, seriously. I think I'm being optimistic with that price. Do the maths. If the blade could polish, even with some issues it would still demand reasonable money here. I dont actually think the dragon horimono is that bad, seen a lot worse. With the bo-hi and in polish i think it would find a new home. Also Rahan, no, its not ripping off unsuspecting newbies, thats how much swords cost here, even low end swords, take a look. Check out the lanes armoury here and their prices, they definitely don't send their swords to Japan for top notch polish. Its ignorant comparing what goes into preparation for those blades compared your average humble sword here. I am always reluctant to use the term "junk". Any antique sword in the form it should be in is not junk. Junk for me is the broken sword, the stuff we see here over the years that have been reshaped far beyond its original form, you know what i mean. No good can come of forcing ones opinion on others, you just push folks away and piss them off at the same time. If Rayhan had been more tactful then perhaps i wouldn't be here wasting my time again I guess it would be easy to wind anyone up in this game over many swords, including some of their Juyo purchases. Colin had it right in his last post and put it better than i have. For me, this blade was in with a fighting chance of being something that someone would be happy to own and thats all there was to it. Cleaned up saya, a real antique Samurai sword with a chance of nailing the school. The wiser people here that specifically concentrate on high end swords tend to stay out of such topics and i kind of respect that. An analogy could be someone always flying business class then suddenly having to jump in a Congo airways Cessna and boring all the other passengers to death with complaining, like a spoilt brat. Also one more thing. Most of us here know what good swords are, its pretty condescending to keep having to listen to the same old burb. Its nothing new and we have heard it all before. Change the record.

Brano, im not doing a kantei on what is available and didnt mean for it to sound like ive come to any conclusions. My point was and always has been that this blade needs more scrutiny than folks pulling up tape measures and stuff. This site is actually for the preservation of ALL Japanese swords, i will do what i can to support that. Only Joking here Brian, but was surprised at the love emoji at the remark above when its your site (meant as a laugh) Im in the camp that if you dont know for sure, then you dont know for sure. Amazed how folks can eliminate a sword so rashly. Online Kantei by horimono and a few other bits and bobs The experts have spoken, God help us.

Really cant be assed getting back into this but a bit taken back by that. Usually, would agree. Though this for me is not a clear cut case, the sword is out of polish. Personally, i cant dismiss something as junk when i don't know what it is. Not judging a sword on Horimono that appear to be done later. For all we know it could be a shortened Dotanuki or similar school, should it go in the trash?. Check the prices stuff like that sells for now. As far as i can tell, no one has been PRAISED or promised the world. Thats all i want to add.

Its not like its going to break in half but its really undesirable, probably fatal to your wallet only

That would put me off. Its not unusual to see flaws, open grain whatever in nakago, but that looks a step too far. Re-sale could be an issue.

You just confirm my thoughts. I dont see anything you highlight where i can say yay or nay as to whether it can be polished For two reasons, im looking at images and im not a polisher with it in hand. As said previously, you could try doing a search. Seen one or two swords over the years that look unsalvageable but ended up polished ok. Its an antique and as much as you think its junk, i always look at them with some respect and wonder what is best for the sword, that's not my decision here. You do realise some folks would happily own the sword, as is. Now i really am done with this thread. Wish Eric the best with with it.

Why would i pay to have someone else's sword polished, such a stupid statement! This is nonsense, you are comparing this sword with Juyo swords? Ive had enough of your elitist **** now Rayhan, this is all ridiculous, troll like egotistical BS As said a number of times now, IM NOT JUDGING AN OUT OF POLISH BLADE from PICTURES and for God knows how many times said it needs to be seen in hand to confirm whether it deserves a polish or not. I said that because like a few others, think it deserves a bit more scrutiny than what we can give it here. And something you don't know, i presume. I know how much Eric paid for this sword, very little in fact and "IF" a polisher says its worth restoring and "IF" he can get it done for a reasonable price then i actually feel he could make a profit when its time to sell. Though many "IFS"!!!. At the price he paid most here would have bought it. Sure if he did NOTHING he could make a profit. Folks are always interested in horimono, even if not executed to an high standard. For many they add interest though its not for everyone. Nakago could be re-patinated, Shirasaya repaired/cleaned up. Hes not a child, so stop treating him like one. Now ive had enough of dealing with your over inflated ego to last me a lifetime, you need to get your head out of the clouds. Feels like an exercise in "blowing ones own trumpet", so to speak. As said, really impressed at how you judge out of polished blades from poor images, amazing. The END.