Dave R

There is a fair bit of discussion about factory made blades, while doing some research I came across a 1946 video of the making of presentation sword in England. I think it is of relevance.

The more 'Gunto I see, the more variations!

You also get completely smooth fittings, associated with late period swords in leather and wood "field scabbards".

From what I have seen, the two are not mutually exclusive, some of the swords made in China for the IJA were vehicle spring steel, and some Seki blades were Rail track, (and damn good blades they are as well). Ohmura and others have words to say on the subject.

Many years ago i dismounted a tanto to find the nakago was shimmed out with what looked like a wood shaving with Japanese writing on it. Nowadays I suspect it was in fact a dried bamboo leaf, which elsewhere on this forum was suggested as the traditional material for this role.... Readily available from your local Chinese provisions store.

As I wrote, all but one are of western blade production. Relevant though when you consider industrial production of NCO type 32 gunto for example. I suspect that as the war progressed industrial units were devoted more to the production of guns and aeroplanes and such, and that is why there were bottlenecks in sword production. Personally I believe that the hand production of Gunto was less to do with tradition and more to do with best use of available resources. A rifle, bayonet or aero-engine was more in demand than a sword.

There is a discussion on this forum about this very style. I started it with the intention of finding if they can be defined more precisely, and it does go some way to doing so. Many members here consider "low class" fittings and blades to be a waste of time so you will not find a lot more about them. Ironically the link above wiil take you back to this forum if you follow the quote back to it's origin. Below is the link to the longer thread here........ http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/12723-okashi-to-rebellion-swords/?hl=okashi

Bump, because I am wondering if anyone has further ideas. I now have a Shinto blade that fits this nicely and I am wondering what would be the best direction to go with the rest of the mounts.

I am familiar with the Mantetsu pics, I linked rather than shared the pics because of copyright issues.

Ohmura San has some pictures on his site of the Mantetsu Factory, though I think you have to go onto the Japanese language side to see them all. http://ohmura-study.net/900.html. I have some pics of Western sword and bayonet production at the beginning of the 20th century. There is a bit of a contrast, a lot more "plant" in the Western factory. The one pic (second?) is one of the few of wartime Japanese sword production, note the lack of machinery.

I wonder if it spent part of it's life as a Naval dirk?

There are some long conversations on this site about cleaning and maintenance, and no wonder with the money a polish costs. Look them up, and come to your own conclusions. I will point out though that they are used in Japan, and sometimes the Togishi recommend them.

A very nice piece indeed, what length is the blade?

Something that I have seen several examples of,... Nihonto Wakizashi in Shin Gunto mounts. Not just the wood and leather field Saya variants aka "crew gunto", but the full size metal Saya and full size Tsuka with a clip . Sometimes very professional expedients are used to make the pieces fit, and on high quality pieces with a known history, and so not some makeshift engaged in for quick sale of bits. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this was done, other than a shortage of blades during the latter part of the War. There are several examples of this in this very section of NMB and good swords they are as well, so I do not see them as "shotgun" pieces in the pejorative sense of the word.

How well do the pieces fit? Any rattle or give in them?

Lots of flags and bells here.

You might find this link of interest.... http://samuraisword.com/nihonto_c/SOLD/Navy_Kanemichi/index.htm

Bear in mind that the Militaria Guys are for the most part perfectly happy with oil quenched blades, It's the Nihonto collectors for whom it is an anathema.

Did they mean the blade only? We are all familiar with old blades in Gunto mounts. Otherwise just a confusion between Meiji and Showa. Lets face it, most of the World has no idea as to reign names in Japan.

My theory is that with the massive and unforeseen expansion of the IJA due to the "Great East Asia War" the demand for officers swords outran production, to the extent that some carried any decent blade they could get their hands on. Another factor is that if you are not a trained swordsman a shorter blade is more manageable. Contemporary photo's show quite a few shorter blades carried by officers, and NCO's. I have an album of photo's downloaded from the internet and Japanese officers seem to have carried allsorts.

Follow up on some of the threads discussing rarity and production numbers, including origins of the "Type 3" Shin Gunto. You have a lot of reading in front of you, Military mounted Wakizashi were not the norm, but still not rare. Reasons for this being as varied as (lack of) availability of new blades, preference for what was a secondary weapon, and convenience in confined spaces. Everyone has their own pet theory, including me.

I have just checked the blade I have, and which sparked off my enquiry.... it is katana mei.

A question regarding storage and display of Shin-gunto. Do they go edge up like a Katana or edge down like a Tachi? I think that when you have the formal mounts with the full Ashi, edge down is fairly obviously the choice, but what if it is in field mounts, a leather covered wooden Saya with one understated suspension ring. Same question as to it's orientation within the Bukuro. I know there is a specific stand for traditional Tachi, but I have doubts as to the relevance of such with 70 year old Gunto mounts. Dave

Are you putting those bits up for sale?

I have been tempted by blades on Ebay, but not succumbed. In the end I will not part with over a certain amount of money unless I have had the item in my hand, or know the seller personally. I have bought WW2 Gunto koshirae and other small fittings direct from Japan, with mixed results but never spent so much money as to really regret it when it did not work out. Dave