Marius

Sorry about that, I have confused two simple things. Apologies. I have edited my post accordingly. What I wanted to say, was that one would not expect a yaki otoshi on a shortened sword. Hence my suspicion it has been retempered. A wide yakiba (tempered part of the edge) in connection with a worn hamachi is an additional indication of a possible saiha (retempered blade).

Jason, Well done with your sale As to this wakizashi - what strikes me is the unusually wavy hamon and broad yakiba, the fact that despite the sword having been shortened, the hamon starts above the hamachi (yaki otoshi) Also, the condition of the nakago is not good (I cannot see yasurime, the patina looks dry). Difficult to judge from photographs, but maybe this blade has been retempered (saiha).

OK, to make a point: I believe that kagamishi tsuba were the work of mirror makers. There must have been several styles in mirrors, ranging from the austere and simple to the very ornate and precise. I have attach three pictures: two kagami and a kagamishi tsuba from Sasano's book. Look at them and compare them.

Yes, this is called suriage (to shorten) or o-suriage (to greatly shorten) and its the purpose was to reduce the length of a blade. Shortening was always done from the nakago side as the removal of the boshi (tempered point) would render the sword unusable (exception: Satsuma-suriage). An interesting article on suriage is posted in the "Articles" section of this Forum, here is the link to the PDF file: http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/articles/Suriage.pdf In a nutshell shortening was done in these cases (but of course not exclusively): 1. When a long sword (e.g. a tachi) was to be converted into a katana 2. When someone wanted to have a wakizashi made from a katana (or naginata) 3. When a sword has developed hagire (crack trough the tempered edge) and was long enough to be shortened 4. When a sword was too long for the new owner

Dear All, I am looking for any sources on kagamishi tsuba and mirror makers. I would love to study the problem of a relation between the tsuba and the mirrors. Many scholars think that kagamishi tsuba have not necessarily been made by mirror makers... It is a valid point if you compare some high-end Momoyama mirrors with their rich, detailed and very crisp ornamentation with the simple (yet tasteful) ornaments on most kagamishi tsuba... Quote from Boris Markhasin's intersting article: "One aspect of the kagami-shi designation that continues to puzzle me, is the fact that the level of artistic detail and technical complexity represented in kagami-shi tsuba is consistently at a much lower level than that represented by contemporaneous bronze mirrors. Perhaps we have once again been led onto the wrong path by empirical observations? Perhaps the kagami-shi tsuba would be better classified as tachi kanagu- shi tsuba created utilizing techniques derived from the practice of mirror making. Thus leaving the designation of kagami-shi for the craftsmen that produced only mirrors such as the one pictured below." Here is the link to the article (PDF file): http://www.shibuiswords.com/kokinko.pdf BTW, if someone has the English language pamphlet to Sasano's booklet "Kagamishi tsuba", I would love to buy it. I have bought only the book, with no translation...

It is a cast copy - a mold has been produced using a real tsuba. Not sure it is modern, as the quality is poor. Here is an interesting discussion about cast tsuba: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7588&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=cast+tsuba+modern

I would rather say it is warabi (bracken). Other info on this tsuba: 1. it is regrettably stripped of patina, possibly over-cleaned by some zealous amateur (it could be repatinated, but only by a specialist) 2. it seems to be late Edo work, possibly Owari 3. it is a small tsuba (for a wakizashi or tanto)

Ford, John, Interesting discussion, thanks for that As this is highly interesting for me (given my penchant for irogane ko-tsuba) I am delighted to have started the thread :D

Sorry for a stupid mistake I have meant shinchu and NOT shibuichi, of course. I will adjust my previous posts to avoid confusing readers of this thread. Apologies

Good, that means that we one be reasonably sure in the case of some tsuba made of copper (I would say suaka). But where is the cut-off for our assessment? It is very tricky indeed. Yamagane will patinate to some very dark colour, I was told, is that true? Patina on suaka will look differently... Here is a picture of yet another tsuba - no nakago ana scratches to confirm that it is copper, but that is what I (hopefully reasonably) assume... When I look at old soft metal tsuba I find it very tricky to asses what it is made of mostly when it has dark patina. Old shinchu does not patinate so easily, I was told, and retains its golden colour, which is said to be especially rich if the shinchu was imported from China.

Ford, as said before, I agree with your opinion. However, I suppose that even without scientific equipment (without wanting to be absolutely precise), one can make an assessment, well, an approximation in some cases. Some of my tsuba must have been mounted until quite recently, and the metal has been exposed in some parts of the nakago ana. I think that if I can see shiny copper, I can reasonably assume that the tsuba is made of copper? I am talking about the tsuba here (picture attached). Obviously, I a not going to scratch the inside of the nakago ana of my tsuba just to "see" what metal it is made of. Most of my tsuba have the old patina inside all ana... BTW, having had a second (and third) look at the tsuba which began this thread I can accept almost any possibilty - yamagane, bronze, brass...

Dear Ford, thank you so much for this post. You are absolutely right - one needs an electron microprobe or a similar, advanced technology to make an assessment of the composition of an alloy. I guess we had all better describe our tsuba as "made of copper or copper-based alloy". Coming back to that tsuba - it could be made of any kind of alloy, with the exception of brass, perhaps.

Dear Christian, I agree it is not particularly good. But as far as patina is concerned... Well, I don't think those pictures do it justice. The patina is reasonably good and and there are some remnants of what seems black lacquer (could be black shoe polish, too, hahaha) :D But it has definitely not been overcleaned. What worries me, though, is an untouched nakago ana - something rather unusual for a tsuba of this age. I would rather err on the side of caution and agree with you that this might be a later Edo piece. I think Steve knows a very similar tsuba, which has been offered for sale as ko-kinko. I could try to make some better pictures in daylight (the posted ones are Grey's), but I don't know if I would not bore people here to death...

Hello there, I have a tsuba (bought from Grey) which I don't quite know what to make of. It looks like made from yamagane with quite decent patina and remnants of black lacquer (the verdigris you see in the picture has been removed with a damp cloth) It looks cast, and that is probably why the previous owner (Skip) has attributed it to kagami-shi. Dimensions are 72x70mm, thickness in the seppa-dai is 2mm, 3.5mm at the rim. Pictures are attached. Thanks for your thoughts

Piers, I have several prints of this series, but not this one, I am afraid :-) I wish, I had it. I was writing an article about Yoshitosh's Tsuki Hyakushi and its pictures of warriors for an exhibition in Torun (May 2011) - http://gomabashi.blogspot.com/2011/01/a ... tsuba.html. One of the prints shown there will be the one I have posted here - Mount Tobisu Dawn Moon. And I got interested in this 3D sashimono.

Christian, I am just trying to be a contrarian It is probably one of those later (Momoyama) kagami-shi tsuba with surface to remind rotten wood. I must admit I don't like this tsuba, although I am a great fan of kagami-shi guards. Maybe that is why I don't want it to be a mirror-maker's tsuba Henry, I agree with you. All the kantei-points are valid. Your conclusion with the deteriorated mould seems absolutely valid.

John, Amazing... After a year I have come back to this post to look for SAKAI TADATSUGU's sashimono (and I have found it). I was inspired by Yoshitoshi's Mount Tobisu moon from the TSUKI HYAKUSHI series. Actually, I wonder if Sadatsugu's sashimono could have been not a banner with a skull but a 3D skull (so to say), either a real one or made from wood? Thanks for this post and for the amazing amount of information in the artwork Any answer to the sashimono problem would be greatly appreciated. I have attached Yoshitoshi's version of it and Evalerio's artwork

OK, not that I disagree, but here is an opportunity to learn :-) The kantei points for kagami-shi, please?

Henry, I am not quite sure that this is actually a kagamishi tsuba. It looks cast, to be sure, but otherwise it is not round as the kagamishi in Sasano's booklet (one exception there is mokko, actually) and the decoration is pretty unusual. Whatever it is, it is a nice irogane ko-tsuba :D

Jason, try at the source - as Stephen said "do a search HERE" viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5505&view=next

Wrong. This post has put you in a dicussion mode Also, you have fared quite well - you got your answers, which is probably better than your post being completely ignored. Hang on to this Board, you will learn a lot. Just don't get discouraged. be prepared to move up in your acquisitions, spend much much more money on books than on swords, then, if you know what you like, get yourself a decent sword (does not have to cost a fortune) and begin the journey. Hey, my first sword was crap. The second one - I paid way to much what was low grade in crap polish. I did not learn anything. Impatience is not the best council when it comes to those multi-$$$$ items. Read a lot, refrain from buying, save up, you'll have more fun and education. That's the mantra, and it has been discussed many times here.

I have had the same impression, actually :-)

One must ask you (but please do not feel offended by these questions): why are you asking? What did you expect buying this sword? Why have you bought it in the first place? Yes, your wakizashi is probably "real" - in the sense that it is not a Chinese copy. Otherwise, not much to say about the blade - it is out of polish, with the tang covered by loose, red rust. The kissaki lacks yokote, which might mean that someone has buffed the sword in the past. Fittings: Tsuba is cast, fuchi-kashira are eaten away by rust, "menuki" is goodness knows what. Tsuka-maki is worse than bad. The whole package is not particularly interesting.

Well, you might want to read this: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/tsubacastiron.html - I find the remarks there quite good. Also, please note that the tsuba has a crack. It woud be very unlikely for a forged tsuba to have a crack in such a thick rim. Besides, really bad cast copies (I am not talking about modern cast fakes) are like pornography - hard to define, but you know what it is when you look at it Seriously - look for remains of the casting seam inside the openings.

Brian, you have become the victim of your own, high standards People have seen three or four tassel posts and they got uncomfortable :D Thanks for your focus, I am sure it is very appreciated by the Forum members. We don't have commercial spam here, we don't have off-topics too often, we don't have adolescent flame wars, somebody show me another forum with such a track record