Davis

Hi Jean I've gone back and had another look and given it some more thought. The archer on the tsuba and piece of bone are both striking the same pose. Elements of dress are similar and the same weapons are carried. The archer on the bone is shown hunting in a forest during a thunderstorm. The archer on the tsuba is shown beneath falling cherry blossom. I still think the "bone" archer is Japanese but I could be wrong - I often am. Ian Bottomley has tremendous knowledge and experience of all types of arms and armour, perhaps he would be so kind as to give his opinion. Mick

Jean Follow Henk-Jan's link, Gorgeous Items At Bonhams - Lot 101 shows a tsuba with a similiar depiction to the one on my bone segment. Mick

Jean It's got me thinking! Mick

Steve, as Peter said "an interesting and even expert assessment". I enjoyed reading your most comprehensive reply - it addressed the main points and gave a plausible explanation. Thanks very much. Jussi, I can't provide pictures at the moment but will try to do so in due course. The blade is of large proportions and very nicely mounted. As you said a "fun puzzle". Steve thinks the sword is more important than the inscription - I fully agree with that statement and acquired it on that basis. Thomas, a glimmer of hope, thanks. Mick

Good Morning All I would welcome opinions on this mei, which might read as "Oite Efu saku kore Hamada Masayuki - Oite Senju Futatsu .. Do Kore". It does not seem apparent who actually performed this test. Could it have been the smith himself. Any biographical information on this smith would also be appreciated. Thanks Mick

Peter has handled thousands of swords, in your neck of the woods too. Mick

The Shinoda Ujifusa sword I referred to before was catalogued by Bonhams as shinshinto. It had a very short heavy blade with a very long nakago. Although it had shinobi-ana it wasn't utilized. It was in civilian mounts with a leather combat cover, there was no provision for a sarute. The mei read something like "A Takayama sword forged by Shinoda Ujifusa". It also had a dedication to Jimmu. I have seen several of these Takayama swords with shinobi-ana that weren't utilized and had no apparent purpose. Guido I don't know the answer to your question. Coming to this board after 50 years of collecting Japanese swords has made me realise that I know very little about them. What I do have though is a passion for history. The "tank incident" involved the loss of British lives and that of the Japanese Officer. Given time I will obtain the full story together with the names of the men involved. They deserve to be remembered. Mick

Hi Guido If there was a scale for weapons used in WW2 that rated each type for its efficiency and killing potential, the atomic bomb would probably score highest and at the other end of that scale the humble sidearm, pistol etc., would score lowest. Edged weapons would hardly register. Most references state the Japanese sword used in WW2 was purely ceremonial. My late father in law was a Burma veteran, one of my uncles was with the Green Howards. They both introduced me to some of their old comrades. Many times I have been given first hand accounts of the Japanese sword used against them in battle. Their use made very little difference to the outcome of battles and they were not effective as the wielder of such was the most likely to get shot first. However, many were used in close combat. " In The Trade of War" Captain James R. Allan of the Green Howards, on page 172, gives an account of how he was attacked by a Japanese Officer, who had jumped from a tree onto his back. A fight to the death ensued. As he was being hacked with the samurai sword he managed to pull out his kukri and sever his opponents neck. Captain Allan survived but spent six months in hospital encased in plaster. He kept the sword and it's now in the care of a fellow collector. A regimental museum has a sword on display that was used in a deadly attack on a British tank. The experiences of George MacDonald Fraser and Freddie Spencer Chapman are also well worth a read. Mick

Years ago I had a gendaito by Shinoda Ujifusa with this feature. Unfortunately I no longer have it. When I get the time I'll go through my things to find if I've kept any details. It was a very unusual sword. There are many fully documented accounts of Japanese soldiers attacking and killing British and Allied soldiers with their swords in close combat. Also a few of Allied troops using Japanese captured swords to kill Japanese. Mick

This advertisement appeared in a mass circulation daily newspaper today - the Daily Mail.

Rick Some adopt that principle and it can work but it won't exclude the wealthy buyer, who on a whim can buy and then discard anything they choose, without any appreciation for what they have acquired. Very interesting Mark. Nothing is forever and everything on earth has an expiry date. Yes, at some stage we will no longer care but while we still can, we do. Sometimes, I have stared at paintings in a gallery and wondered, for how long, something so fragile can exist, before it too succumbs to the ravages of time. Decay, fire, warfare or thrown away with the rubbish. Dark thoughts? Perhaps. Many swords I have encountered have been damaged or neglected in some way. Most of which has happened, probably over the last 70-100 years. Every so often though a treasure emerges from somewhere and presents itself in perfect condition, apart maybe from some surface dirt and grime, which is itself a form of patination. How could it have survived, intact and undamaged for so long? Generation upon generation of careful custodians, identities unknown. Mick

Some years ago I donated a couple of items to a museum. They never did appear on display and were probably stored away and forgotten. The museum eventually closed. I would never donate to a museum again. In the UK, the Museums Association recently conducted a survey of museums. It revealed that 1 in 10 are considering selling off items from their collections. Also 53% of museums responding to the survey reported cuts to full time staff. Almost a third (32%) reported an increase in the number of volunteers and interns. 36% said the number of school visits had decreased. The pace of selling off artifacts has also speeded up. Northampton Museum sold off a 2400BC Sekhemka Egyptian statue for over £14 million. Croydon Council disposed of 24 Chinese ceramics for over £8 million. A number of other museums are lining up to do likewise. Some with very good Japanese collections. Getting back to the original post - we will of course, all make our own minds up on what we intend to do. A good inventory, photos, descriptions, contact addresses etc., will all no doubt help. Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this interesting subject. Mick

Marius I hadn't realised that Chris had covered this before. Thanks. Peter I agree with every point. I might also add that a museum repository will tell you more about that museum than it's public display ever will. Scholarship has waned............ I remember the first keeper/curator I met during the 1960's. It was at a London museum and I had taken along a sword seeking information. It was early morning and I hadn't made an appointment. An elderly gent greeted me like a long lost friend, he was at least fifty years older than me. Full of enthusiasm and free with his knowledge, we spent the entire day together touring the building. Very enjoyable. My most recent encounter was with a young woman giving a talk on the "Edo Period". She held handwritten notes and read straight from them without looking up. We were then showed a shingunto which she told us was typical of the swords worn by samurai at that time..... With regards to disposal. Auctions are an option but the right auctioneer, right sale and timing are crucial. Some examples of past sales:- The first example was a sale held many years ago and from memory the vendor was alive at the time. He was a WW2 veteran, collector and author. His collection was split between two auctioneers, one in London and the other in Sussex. The best of the collection - ancestral blades in military mounts went to London and the remainder, gendaitos etc., went to the specialist in Sussex. Nice catalogues, good lot descriptions and well advertised in advance etc., This collection sold well. The second example was a collection held in more recent times. This sale took place a considerable time after the owners death, the 30 plus swords had been in storage many years before coming to market. They were good swords but in poor condition. The lot description for each was virtually identical and incorrect. The sale was poorly advertised. This collection was given away. Final example was not a collection but a single sword that appeared in a general sale. Described as a " Japanese Officers sword est £150 - £200". No doubt consigned by an elderly veteran or his relatives. What the auctioneer failed to mention was that the blade was 600 years old and was very well preserved. Fortunately it was spotted and a good price had to be paid for it. A dealer later had it on offer for just under £5,000. Mick

Ian It was the Museum of Childhood in London's East End that inspired me to collect. Despite the name it housed a magnificent collection of Japanese swords and fittings - nicely displayed. Hundreds of tsuba were contained in cabinets that had pull out drawers for closer inspection. Around that time I used to write to Basil Robinson asking for his help in reading signatures. He usually replied with a beautifully handwritten note with the calligraphy highlighted in red ink. Museums were a joy in those days. Your valuable insight into the workings of the RA is very reassuring. This should be the gold standard other museums aspire to. Your witty description of the museum that replaced it's ethnographic collection with looms and spindles I feel, is the standard though these days. I once offered the Imperial War Museum a small collection of rare items - they were not interested. This lead me to read up on the acquisition/disposal of collections by museums. As you say very bureaucratic. You also mention the financial restraints local authorities and museums face. This has lead in some museums to staff cuts and reduced opening times to the public. I have also heard whispers of some museums wishing to sell off parts of their collections. This has happened in the past. Do you remember, many years ago The Tower of London selling off a huge stock of ex East India Company muskets/pistols? I know also that the trustees sold off a considerable number of swords from the Bower's collection at Chiddingstone. I vaguely remember something similar at Warwick castle? I think that last year Thomas Del Mar also sold arms and armour from an institution in the U.S.A. I don't have the references in front of me but I will try to find them. Ian, thanks for your comments. Brian A very practical solution. I like the idea that the price we pay is really the "rental fee". Thanks Mick

Thank you for your positive replies. Peter, "collections are numerous as clouds....." Sums it up perfectly. Ken, my late father had a collection of boxing memorabilia. My younger brother was a boxer but wasn't interested in it, neither was I. I inherited it anyway. knowing what it had meant to him I spent a year breaking it up. I carefully selected various items and passed them to his old friends and associates. The rest I trickled through auction. Hopefully, all his treasures are now safe and appreciated. Unfortunately, no member of my family is remotely interested in Japanese swords Regarding keeping regular up to date values. We know what we paid, we might think we "know" what our treasures are worth and we "know" that there is someone out there eager to buy. That's the easy bit. It's another thing in reality. So how can we expect our family or executors to handle things better than we can? Steve, you mention museums! Grey and Brian have answered as I would have. I've seen inside the storerooms of some museums. Water damage, rust, swords forcefully jammed into wrong saya etc., etc. Some museums have had dedicated, professional staff with an absolute passion for the subject. Names like the late Commander Newman and Basil Robinson and in more recent times Victor Harris and Ian Bottomley, spring to mind. People move on though. Continuing expertise cannot always be guaranteed. Regarding "Museum Collapse Syndrome" - it's already with us. I know one museum albeit small and specialised that was closed for financial reasons but in reality the reason was political correctness. I've also seen auctions where museums have consigned arms and armour following a clearout. The reason usually given is that money has to be raised for building maintenance or some trendy new project. The other Peter, reducing a collection to a few choice items, I believe, is the way to go and taking on the disposal of the rest ourselves. The burden shouldn't fall to others. They just won't have the enthusiasm. Mick

I have observed over the last few years the increasing frequency of Japanese collections coming onto the market - mainly at auction. No doubt in many cases this is due to the death of the former owners. Viewing these collections can be very interesting and can give clues to the tastes, knowledge and pocket of the collector. The size of these collections can vary from a handful of pieces to many hundreds of items. Conditions can range from the badly distressed and almost beyond redemption to pristine verging on the immaculate. Quality/condition usually achieves a high price but generally most things sell well below what they are worth and probably what was originally paid. It also seems the larger the collection on offer the lower the prices realised. Auction houses, certainly here in the UK, vary considerably. Some are well run, with efficient and pleasant staff, research their consignments, provide good catalogue descriptions and supply excellent pictures. Some don't! So the older collector, as the years advance, should maybe start to think about the disposal of his collection. Should it be cherished to the end and then left to others ( not qualified/interested ) to carry out your wishes. Or, while you still have the mental/physical capacity and perhaps some knowledge of the market, start to break it up yourself? We are the present custodians and should endeavour to pass on our "treasures", intact, into the safe hands of the next generation but what's the best way? Any thoughts? Mick

Ian, Completely agree with you - you raised some very good points. I do think though, that this will be put to parliament sooner rather than later. There are too many high profile public figures who wish to court popularity. They are on record as saying that they wish that our major collections of ivory should be destroyed. New trendy thinking? Recently Helen Ghosh, Director of the National Trust said that their properties have too much "stuff" in them. Her solution, pack it all away and just have a few exhibits on display. You can imagine the future, say at Snowshill Manor. A collector makes the journey there to view the Japanese Arms and Armour and is disappointed to find almost empty rooms. Instead on display is perhaps a single vase to stare at but you would have a bean bag to sit on! Mick

Some politicians did receive a good kicking. However, the Conservatives are now the Government and have pledged to ban the sale of ivory. They also intend to campaign for a complete international ban. Mick

Good evening all Here in the UK, the Conservative Party has pledged in it's manifesto that they will ban all sales of ivory. It has since been confirmed by Conservative Central Office that the ban would be total and include antique items predating 1947. When this eventually happens, what will become of antiques made from ivory or including ivory? Will they cease to have a value or will their blackmarket value skyrocket? Source - Antiques Trade Gazette 27th April 2015. Mick

I don't know what happened there, I'll try again.

Not so commonly found are those made from stag antler. This one is from a collection formed pre WW1. Quite heavy too. Mick

I bought this 7cm x 3cm section of bone at an antique fair. I asked a Chinese couple (antique dealers) browsing at the same stall whether it could be Chinese. The answer was no. The picture is not very good, the detail is much better viewed in hand. My opinion is that this is Japanese. Mick

Some thoughts on the original question. The appearance of a fire damaged tsuba might depend on a number of varying factors. Was the tsuba placed in a fire intentionally under controlled conditions? Was it involved in a fire accidentally? What was the duration/intensity and maximum temperatures reached? Where was the tsuba located within the fire and how was it positioned? How do different metals behave in a fire, what are their expansion rates/melting points? Did the tsuba anneal slowly or was it quenched rapidly? Was there corrosion/rust present before the involvement with fire? Was it allowed to rust after the fire? Was it re-patinated? What were the mediums used? Was re-patination done well/badly? Etc., etc., Re sekigane. Omote side, it has more exposed surface area and seems to stand proud - so easily buffed. Ura - less surface area and appears recessed - difficult to buff - patination or discolouration remains. Sometimes it's seems clear cut, sometimes not. Mick

I also picked up on the points made by Brian and Pete. My initial thoughts were rust+oil+buffing. Are there any hairline cracks in the iron adjacent to the copper? Mick

Whereabouts unknown. Authenticity? It would have been acquired at a time of great upheaval in Japan and anything is possible...Liverpool, in the past was a great place to collect swords. A large port, large number of very wealthy Victorian collectors whose collections were disposed of locally when they died...... Mick