Derek79

Curtis, Same here, although I believe the habaki on mine is silver foiled/plated brass. It has almost a complete reverse image "smashing" on it compared to the one here. I haven't been able to get the habaki off of mine either, leaving that for a professional when I get it in for a polish. Haven't had it for shinsa yet, and unfortunately won't be able to make the West Coast one this August... Ruben pictures can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13534 and here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13312

Nice, I'm sitting on a possible Kanesada/Terukane wakizashi myself. The fittings look pretty nice, something I wish mine had. I've been learning a lot about nihonto in the past 8 months or so, but I find it pretty cool that the habaki of this piece and mine are so similar, I wish I could compare all the fittings...and compare stories.

Haven't fallen off the wagon. Been on here a lot lately just don't have any meaningful amateurish comments to add in other threads. Had a falling out with some of the family who wanted to file suit for possession of the sword solely because of the mei and saw a single piece by Terukane signed as Echigo no kami Kanesada appraised at 5million yen online...ugh...couple month long argument backed up with quite a bit of the advice from you guys here. No love lost in the long run anyway... Found out a bit more of my Grandfather's history. Apparently he was also part of the initial occupation force in Japan after the Pacific war. This would probably explain the non-military saya that the piece is in. Right now it stays in my humidity controlled fire-rated gun safe and I do a cleaning with dehydrated alcohol and a light run of mineral oil once a month on the blade. Has cleaned up very nicely, I'm just now worried about some of the blemishes. A couple of them may possibly be hagire but look to only be surface level to my extremely untrained eye (just comparing to other surface level metal blemishes I've come across in other hobbies including cars and firearms, probably doesn't compare but I've been able to identify fatal metallurgical flaws in the bores of several extremely high priced firearms that rendered them basically scrap metal unless one has sentimental value for them.) Will be calling Jimmy Hayashi tomorrow about getting on his list, and just see if he has a couple minutes for some questions.

A Chicago event would be awesome. I'm in San Antonio but would probably swing by Nebraska, pick up the old man and make a pops and son trip. We'd love to submit the family heirloom for shinsa in person.

Thanks Veli. For some reason I've been having a hard time with the search function on the forums. Most likely user error.

Direct or difuse lighting from an incandescent? I kept getting glare and reflection trying that way, the best results I got were outside on a sunny day in the shade.

And a few more that turned out ok. It seems that all the photos of the blade that show the hamon the best are of the same side. I don't know if it was my lighting or what, but the other side either reflected light too much or turned out of focus.

Alright, lets see if I can't get some of these pictures loaded. Unfortunately I'm having a hard time getting the hamon to show in pictures. It is much more pronounced now that I've cleaned it, but I've been trying different lighting and having a hard time with reflections off of the blade itself. :? edit: There are scratches on the surface of the blade that look to be attempts to remove blemishes. These were not visible until I cleaned the blade. They WERE NOT ME haha.

It is a good looking piece, gimei or not. As I am still learning, and there is so much to learn, is it common for the boshi to be so drastically different. It almost looks forge welded on. Granted I have zero experience, it just looks...odd...to me. I also spent the last 30 minutes looking at the different periods and schools and, wow, I have a hard time differentiating. Definitely so much to learn.

Alright so I tried both methods. It's still stuck on there. And upon closer inspection the habaki looks to be silver plated or foiled brass...there is some of the green brass corrosion on the nakago side of the habaki. It may just get left on for the pro's to remove when I get to the polishing stage eventually. I spent a good hour cleaning the sword. WOW. Only I forgot my camera charger and it's dead so I can't get pictures up right now. It is a whole world of difference with just a gentle cleaning and a light wipe of oil on the blade. There are still some spots where that green crud (I'm assuming old machine oil or gun oil or something) is still caked on. I just refuse to go at it with anything more than a light touch. maybe I'm just approaching it a bit too cautiously, but I'd rather not ruin this.

I will give these a try. Would soaking the area in a break free oil be the best way? I don't want to end up oiling up the nakago...or does that not matter, you just don't "clean" it up?

Continuing the journey here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13534

Alright, so my adventure into nihonto began (can one say re-began?) here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13312 First of all I'm hoping that this is in the correct place. I have the wakizashi in hand now. Pictures will be coming later as I just spent 14 hours in a car with my 7 and 3 year old today (this was after 34 hours over 3 days with them about a week and a half ago). So I do apologize for typo's and running of the keyboard. Since I've already gotten so much help from this community and have been spending as much time as I can learning about nihonto, I'd like to put a long term "journal" so to speak of my process in this thread. 1. To share. and 2. for any input, as really, I don't feel like I know a thing about this. My first step tonight is to polish off a bottle of jack daniels and take the polishing attachment on the dremel to the blade. I kid haha. sorry probably in poor taste :lol: Really the plan is in the next couple days to get some plain, zero anything added, tissues, dehydrated alcohol and mineral oil and give the blade a nice light cleaning/oiling as outlined elsewhere on these boards. I will then post some more pictures in better lighting, and if that light cleaning takes the green what-ever-crud is on the blade off to show the state of the metal/blade better. A couple of questions/requests 1. feel free to go "wait moron don't do that" I'll be checking on here daily before doing anything with the piece. 2. any additional advice beyond what was already put in the other thread 3. correct any of my terminology/spellings/assumptions (please, I always learn better when corrected ) 4. share in the process...it doesn't seem to be a "hobby" that one can truly enjoy alone, and without the help here, this wakizashi would probably have sat in my father's basement until he passed and I got it and then started researching it again. Finally, I know pictures of the nakago with the habaki removed were requested...I couldn't get the habaki off and as of right now absolutely refuse to use anything other than the two fingers I can while supporting the piece with my other hand. is there a trick to it? I want to say the habaki is silver.

I think the mail in option is great. As I said, I'd love to attend, but if that wasn't possible being able to get something mailed in and put through shinsa would be fantastic.

Chris, I would be interested in either. An in person shinsa, maybe with a show would be great I'd like to meet some other collectors face to face as I've always found that sometimes the best knowledge comes from anecdotal conversation, especially since I've been at this for...oh a week now. Either way, I am planning on trying to get a window placed on the piece that I have and would like to submit it for shinsa to see if it's worth a full polish on.

Alright so I think this will be my last update here, as I really need to focus on moving my family from Seattle to San Antonio in about a week. Just to let you guys know here is what I am doing (throwing this out there so that the true collectors aren't biting their nails wondering if a novice like me is going to completely FUBAR the whole shebang.) Thanks for all the info on shirasaya from Lee, Grey and Franco (specifically to you guys, and again, HUGE thanks again to everyone else). When I check out the sword sometime in August I may go with modifying the current saya as outlined by Grey above. If (in my extremely limited experience) I am not comfortable doing that I will do a wrapped paper shirasaya in order to protect the blade from the elements. I guess I didn't think it all the way through, and didn't realize that those out there that make saya/shirasaya etc are artists in themselves and it would be a waste of time/money to get that done twice for the same sword. so I will do that, get in touch with a polisher to see if they can assess the sword and place a window on the blade and then worry about shinsa. once all that is done I'll go forward with the full polish as due to the state of the tip it will probably require a good foundation polish (and I will be going back and researching all of this, I'm kind of regurgitating advice right now )

Man after my own heart haha. I doubt that the current saya does any form of protection for the blade, other than providing a modicum of protection to the cutting edge and preventing anyone from getting cut. IF this turns out to be actual Nidai Kanesada/Sakakura I won't mind getting a shirisaya done now to protect the blade until I can get at least the window placed and submitted for shinsa, and another done after a full polishing. If I'm looking at a relic that is ~350 years old, has already been in my family for 60+ years, I intend to keep it as an heirloom for the following generations (once I'm dust it's up to them really, I guess) so a couple of shirisayas done isn't that big of a deal to me (heck I even have a few firearms that have zero sentimental value of which the sales would cover the cost of a couple shirisaya). The one thing that I found interesting while researching Nidai Kanesada/Sakakura was that he was rated O-Wazamono, and even as poorly kept as this blade is, it is SHARP! (in no way am I taking my zero experience and going "IT IS A TRUE Nidai Kanesada...he made sharp blades and this blade is sharp" haha, I just found it interesting). Grey - I guess I wasn't clear. My "display" would most likely be a wall mount over my gun safe in the walk in closet. The gun safe is ~700 pounds and bolts to the slab foundation, about as wide as this sword is long and about two foot deep and 5 feet tall, so accidental bumping of the blade would be unlikely due to the massiveness of the safe and the fact that even my wife doesn't go into my closet (she has her own gun safe). However if the best bet is to wrap it and keep it in the gun safe (fire rated 60 minutes at 1200 degrees F) I'll do that.

I greatly appreciate all the advice and answers to my questions. This is a field that I really have no knowledge in, and have seen others taken advantage of by 'experts' and I feel like I was welcomed into a culture that is passionate about what they do and excited to help the newbies get a foot hold in without going over their heads. I have plenty to learn/read/get myself up to speed on so I will probably be spending more time on that. This is definitely a long term deal (I'm not even looking to have it completely done until...well I don't even know several years at least). I won't even have the sword in my possession for at least a couple months and have several people that I have been told to get a hold of regarding the process. As it stands now, yes Veli, shirisaya is definitely acceptable at this point and most likely what I will do at this point, and really I think I'd be happiest with it that way so I can focus on saving for the important stuff, like window/full polish, shinsa etc. I would probably look to get a window done on the blade and follow the boards and see if I can't get to one of the NTHK conventions...I heard there have been a few in Chicago, if there is one there, I'd probably take a week of vacation, swing through Omaha (where I grew up) grab a buddy and hit Chi-town to submit the sword for shinsa and have a mini vacation. What I'm a little hazy on is if getting a window done would be adequate or if I should get a full polish before submitting for shinsa...or if just cleaning it with dehydrated alcohol and a light oiling would be adequate. It's hard to see, but it's almost as if there is a lacquer coating on the blade itself...it has a green tint that is very very light towards the cutting edge and gets thicker/heavier as it moves to the hamon and is thickest over the shinogi and ji. Don't know if this is residue from my grandfather putting gun/some other oil on it, or a treatment to preserve the blade while it was carried? First order of business besides educating myself is to get the sword and clean/oil it as outlined in the FAQ page and also someone linked a .pdf on this thread that explained how to clean/oil as well. Once this is done I will not put it back in the saya it was found in. Would it be acceptable to display the piece as is (no fittings) on a stand until I can get it to someone to get a shirisaya made for it? The last thing I want to do is clean/oil it then have it get touched/manhandled/stuffed back in a trunk. So I'll probably step back (especially now that the initial OMG! has worn off concerning the possible potential of this piece), ping a few of you with periodic questions and get my ducks in a row. Once I have the piece I will get more/better pictures, especially of what has been requested since the postings of the originals. I will most likely put those new ones into a new thread under the nihonto specific board (linking each thread to the other so people can go back to the beginning without dumping copies of pictures onto the server) as this is kind of drifting away from the original intent of just translation and don't want to pull any focus away from others who are probably cursing me under their breath for sucking up so much of the brain power on these boards :lol: Again, thanks for the help, direction and advice so far. I've been told for years that people who collect nihonto (or art, or statuary, or heck anything older than they are...) are an elitist bunch. Gotta say so far my experience has been pleasant and very informative.

Jacques - It will be awhile. The sword is not in my possession and had a hard time explaining over the phone the pictures needed. I will be able to get them in about a month or so and will put them up. Now that I'm over the initial excitement of the potential possibilities of this sword I will be taking my time in getting it and planning out what exactly I'm going to do with it, who to contact and line everything up. First reason is that I don't want to rush into it, second is the price attached. I may even have to give up my next rifle purchase which shocked my wife speechless when I said I'd be willing to do that, haha.

Ok. Definitely a lot of information to go through already. So potentially nidai Kanesada? Seems to be a pretty big deal, so I'll have to look into the smith some more. Already this has raised even more questions. 1) Should further discussion be carried out in the Nihonto board? 2) As I am new to this community, is there an acceptable way to get fittings done to display as is while waiting for a polish/full restoration (is it even called a restoration?) 3) Can someone point me to some good resources on the subject so I can educate myself, not complaining about NMB at all, I tend to get distracted by the shiny pictures and end up way out in left field when I was actually trying to find the pitcher's mound. 4) Is there a listing or registry of persons capable of doing a polish? 5) Same as above but for fittings (as I understand it you need the foundation polish, then fittings then the finish polish yes?) 6) Would sending the piece for shinsa be the only way to actually verify the smith? I frankly don't care about the worth of the piece, as it has a sentimental value that I can't put a price to. The initial placement of the piece at ~300 years old was enough for me to want to get it done right. Due to the history of the sword in my own family, I will be very hesitant to send it away... 7) With the amount of care needed once it is polished, I personally wouldn't have it done right now. I still have potentially 2 more moves left with the military, and that's only if I retire at the 20 year mark, and would not trust that the sword would get proper care in that situation. I also have a special needs brother who lives with my parents, and in discussions with my parents they would not feel comfortable having it displayed or even in a place where he would know about it just for his own safety. Part of the reason it was buried at the bottom of a box in the back of the den closet for the past 10 years.

Franco No I hadn't seen that. Honestly I've gotten lost in all the details on NMB. Think I need to lean back and slow down in my attempts to absorb as much as possible. Unfortunately I won't be able to take advantage of the San Fran show...I'm at the mercy of the military right now and am moving halfway across a continent in about a week. I will have to keep an eye out. I truly figured that this was either a mass produced militaria or maybe something in the time period just previous to WWII, where I would (probably be bashed here) wouldn't mind an amateur polishing the sword as it would be for aesthetics only and kept in the family. Now with the potential history behind it...that really changes things...kind of like taking a repro M1 carbine and restoring it yourself or getting your hands on an original M1 Garand and having a true gunsmith do it for you.

Veli - Thanks for the link. This is pretty amazing stuff. I didn't realize how deep all this could go in the research. I may have (to my wife's dismay) found a new looooooooong term hobby.

And finally the tip. Not the best quality but the best I can do right now. The tip is chipped and obviously the blade along the tip and a couple spots down the cutting edge are nicked. There are more photos, but really none add to what's shown. The only pictures I have of the portion above the habaki are the full lenghts, which aren't the best quality due to the flash glare. The major reason I've not been adamant in my research was I was told by an "expert" that the green tint to the blade denoted mass production and acid etching.

Here are the close ups of the tang and mei. I don't know if the quality is any better or pictures or any clearer. I'm completely new to this genre of collection. My passion has thus far lied in firearms, although this is starting to become far more fun and exciting VS tracing a simple serial number.

Grey, Thanks for the input. I'm really trying to figure out what to do with this piece. Like I said, my father thought I had it, and I've been trying to figure out what to do with it for him for awhile. While the blade isn't in perfect condition (a few nicks in the cutting edge and a chipped tip) I'd rather keep it as is and get the fittings redone. It's sharp as all get out (I remember sneaking a look at it as a kid ~12-13 yrs old and slicing my arm open, still have the scar) as is. Honestly, I don't know if I'd trust it shipped over seas if it really is this old. As I've seen on this board "no polish is better than an amateur polish." I think I'd rather get the fittings done then decide/save up for a polish.