kissakai

Thank you Lorenzo for the tsuba information It was on hold which I am hoping is held for me on your recommendation I would have also liked the other dragon tsuba but it had already gone Grev UK

Sorry Brian I forgot to resize it - Doh Grev UK

Hi David Yours is similar to mine which I had listed as Tosho and pre 1800 and I like mine as well Size = 83 x 83 x 3.2mm Grev UK

Brian Makes you wonder if some people made loads of different blanks which were then sold off to the true craftmen Mauro Your collection as mine may be quite presentative of a lot of collections - this is why I like this message board as the tsuba doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to recieve some brilliant advice. Years ago in Britain the superb and intricate funiture was superseded by the more rustic type (tastes change). I imagine a history with my tsuba, mounted and used and therefore basic and functional. I have one with no decoration, is convex and feels like a worn peeble in my hand - magic Grev UK

I was beginning to wonder if anyone would reply, was it because they have no merit I put them on to ask if they were copies and I know that they are of low quality When dealing with these lower grade tsuba this is possibly the only place I can get some answers because they are not good enough to be listed anywhere else So thanks David and Geraint for your comments - most appreciated and I've added a little more info No 3 - I was told this may be fungus as the tree is clearly dead and may represent life rising from the dead No 9 - I've shown the original image below My comments are: May be a blank ready for carving or the desire to leave it just as an outline The second image shows the finished tsuba and I've carefully looked at the outlined and they are virtually identical - wish I had the finished item Thanks again for your comments Grev UK

Looking at NMB tsuba threads and was surprised how may copies/fakes are around so I looked again at my tsuba to see which gave me doubts of their authenticity. I have provided small images of any dodgy ones so the learned can point out the impostors and the genuine. I can provide more pictures including angle views for any tsuba that are on the borderline. I’ve decided to concentrate on the more basic (hopefully) genuine tsuba as there is no real mileage in producing copies. The last image is one I like very much so please don’t say it’s a copy but if you must then go ahead. To me this is honest no frills tsuba possibly by Kunisaku who may be an armourer and made around 1600 – 1700. The shape is a closed fist (kobushi gata). It took me ages to find these details out but that is their attraction None of these tsuba owes me very much so there is no need to temper your views. I hope I haven’t asked too much but with such excellent input it is hard not to use these resources Grev UK

When I was googling tsuba I came across the first image and description but I can't find it know I should have been more careful with the reference as I can't refer back to it! I do know the description goes with the image but I will be more careful next time I'll keep looking to see if I can find it again The only reply agreed with me about the school so that was reassuring but I was still interested on how similar they are and any further comments Grev UK

Hi David Is this beter? Grev UK

Whilst browsing the internet I saw the this tsuba from one of Jim Gilberts pages Described as: Kyo sukashi, from the late Muromachi period, size 74 x 74 x 4mm Iron, polished - Maru gata - Kaku mimi ko niku The design is of a stone garden path, a cart wheel on that path or of back-to-back no theatre fans. This shows the typical homogenous Kyo iron with a surface that appears to have been ground and polished to a smooth and regular finish. The rim shows subtle tekkotsu. This is ex Sasano collection and published in his study group journal. A slightly larger but otherwise identical example appears in the Kurokawa Institute of Ancient Cultures catalogue. It may be the dai to this sho. This my Tsuba I described it as: Heianjyo school, dated around 1800. Checkerboard (Ichimatsu) with inlayed keyfret design design Size 78 x 77 x 3.5mm Am I right with my description. Could it have been a later modification? Or more importantly - What have I got? Grev UK

Thanks Curran It was just the other 'points' that threw me Grev UK

Can anyone help with the name of this form? The closest I can find is Shippo but it I'm not sure Any other information would help such as a date/school but with such a basic tsuba I know this is a tall order assuming that it is not a repro It is made of copper and the size is 68 x 68 x 4mm Grev UK

Thanks for everones help which I found for my first post very informative and was amazed how many posts it has generated I wonder what you will make of my next question! Grev UK

Brian When I did a sumary you said I was jumping to the wrong conclusions and best wait until there was a more rounded opinion Are we at a stage where some sort of suming up can be made? Christian - thanks for the images which I found to very useful Grev UK

Geraint Opposite side

Old Tsuba help Hi I've found quite a lot of info that has helped me with some of my tsuba One of mine is an enigma as I've found nothing like it. Maybe just something of low interest but I'd love to find out something about it. Size 60 x 54 x4mm Synopsis A very low end tsuba made recently (made for western tourists?) more likely a modern fake. I would say low end for export piece like circa the Meiji Period. Inlays very poorly done. Tsuba is NOT bad and Not an "tourist production" How on earth can you attribute this doodle to Nishigaki? That's embarrassing. This one screams Chinese fake or Japanese amateur "doodler" to me. An especially close picture to the your one is here. I think we are getting closer Some of you are clearly going blind. There is not a single feature of this tsuba that is even remotely well done. I would concede that this was by a total amateur My first response was "wow, a Chinese copy or some such" and my gut feeling is still the same. What Christian has quoted so far looks quite reasonable I would not really "hunt" for this spoken Tsuba as, it’s obviously sub in many aspects... Now that I did my homework, I can say that this certainly is not a tourist item. No tourist could have ever chosen that out of the widely available hamamono, for sure. Please.... It's incredible to me we are even discussing about this paperweight. If you look at them (pasted images) you can see a "similarity" in the fact that the iron is beaten and has a design overlaid in copper or brass (like yours) For me the pic tsubas appear quite crude and unremarkable, but as it is part of a learned discussion of Higo artists by Japanese scholars it must be of artistic/historical significance in Japan. I say it also is not to my taste, but I do think now it is possibly above a modern Chinese fake. It appears to be chiselled in high relief and has soft metal overlays which do not usually appear on Chinese junk copies My first look was in reading TB 17-Page 22/mentioned there is one scholar who once studied under Nishigaki Kanshiro...which finally lead us to Higo. Grev asked the members to help him "find out something about it". Since then it has been classified as modern Japanese, a fake, reproduction, Meiji, tourist production, hamamono etc and now we have also had a valuation. Your tsuba appears to be cast. The two open areas in the right side of the seppa dai have no rational use. It is also interesting to note that there is no evidence of seppa zuri, wear marks caused by the seppa against the seppadai. The patina is grayish and blotchy and the overall colour of the metal is gray. This is not in line with forged tsuba and their patinas. The carving is shallow and rounded which I believe equates to not being carved at all but cast and finished. the gold iroe is thin and runs over onto the mimi in one area, although the use of two different colours of gold at least was thoughtful. Keep items such as this, and keep at this hobby. Read online, get together with collectors, attend shows. Every few months, take out your old item, and see how you view it. That's great advice One thing that struck me about this tsuba is the lines. All the curves are hesitant and jagged. Nothing flowing. Note the lines within the flowers. This isn't any "wabi" or "sabi" or artistic freedom. It is hesitation and lack of skill. Cut by an amateurs who doesn't know how to use the chisel yet. The cutting around the subjects to give them some form of depth is just badly done. As Pete noted. My conclusion Poor quality (amateur/not decided) and made of poor iron. The only image from Ito Mitsuru san's book on Hikozo and Shimizu that had some common points but I concede this image was of much better quality. They observations that helped me were the grey colour (not good), no seppa marks and a good learning exercise. If it was decided not to pursue this discussion there wouldn’t have been over 50 posts! So apart from obvious fakes/repro’s all tsuba are worth a second look. I still like this tsuba, my first of a collection of just over 30 tsuba. I’m sure my next request for help with another tsuba (better quality) will not spark as much discussion Many thanks to all contributors Grev UK

Hello George I have looked at your previous post but do not see any images, would you let me know where they are? The only image apart from mine is from Christian I did not expect any glowing remarks just advice, so the 'paperweight' comment I believe was a bit low and did nothing to answer my request Far better to refer to a paperweight then back up the statement Grev UK

Brian/Christian If you wish you can close this discussion. It has helped although an image or article showing something similar was ideally what I was looking for. My view is that I am not ashamed of this tsuba, it has some detail looks used and feels nice. It was my first tsuba and my collection but as may be apparent I know so little so this message board is of vital interest to me and hope it use it in the future but feel I already used my ‘allowance’ with my first submission. I thought I would add an enlargement of the back of the tsuba Thanks again for every ones comments Grev UK

Hello Brian I hadn't checked but have now and it is magnetic, it als has a 'ring' when tapped I can understand your point when the grey colour was mentioned in a previous message so this check was a good idea Grev UK

Hello George In your reply you said you have posted the pictures from his article can you tell me where I can view these? Thanks for your unbiased reply and I look forward to any more input Grev UK

I didn't wish to cause a stir but those who are passionate will speak out and this is the only way to get an objective view and provided it didn't degenerate is a good thing I do not have a load of reference books so this is way I posed my question to ask ask where I could look There has only been one relpy with a image, so thanks for that Can any other contributers give me any links/images that would help with my original request Grev UK

Thanks for all your help As this was my first use this forum I was unsure of any protocols If it is a fake/modern reproduction then is is why I couldn't find anything like it I've had it for about 15 years but can not remember where it came from but I did think it had a little age to it Grev (the UK)

Hi I've found quite a lot of info that has helped me with some of my tsuba One of mine is an emigma as I've found nothing like it. Maybe just something of low interest but I'd love to find out something about it Size 60 x 54 x4mm