Luc T

The good news is, once you have a scientific proof, you know 100% sure what you have.

I once bought a kofun armor, with full description of the finding place, pictures and so on. At a certain moment, I became suspicious, the armor was almost better than the ones in the National Museum of Tokyo... Scientific examination discovered that the russet was made with a modern chemical product.... The Japanese seller with a golden reputation took it back.. me happy and I learned a lot!

there exist lab's for this: https://www.kotalla.de/?lang=en I examinate all my old stuff. The results are sometimes not really what the story behind it tells.

I never intended to call Ian a plagiazer, everybody has to rely on someones discoveries and studies. And indeed, Ian do mention them on every occasion. So I am sure that Ian respect them. I just want Ian to know that these sensei are a part of the shinsa. If this is misunderstood, my deepest apologies Ian. My point is that the shinsa takes it’s responsability not light. And that the members ( i now exclude myself). are authorities on their field. Ian deserves respect for his research, so do these Japanese sensei.

One more thing. There are two reasons to bring an item on the shinsa: The owner want to learn something about the item Or The owner want to sell the item and knows he can ask more if it is papered by the NKBKHK. The first group has no problem with an open ukebari. The second group, well it depends on the item if you know what I mean.

Ian, when a kabuto comes on the shinsa, we are not allowed to open the ukebari if it is closed. I see that most suspicious kabuto have a closed but recent ukebari. In many cases the item is not judgeable. So last year, most of these kabuto were withdrawn from the shinsa. In the case of Saotome, it is really not necessary to open the ukebari. They are easy to recognise from the outside. And that was how Orikasa sensei tested me time after time. I can tell you he sees it faster than you can count. About the ‘expertise’, i notice that your essays and lectures are very often based on several shinsa members their studies. They are stong Ian, do not underestimate them. About this particular helmet, I agree with your opinion about the school.

hi all, I see this old post now, maybe I can help and explain something. In 2017 I was invited to watch the shinsa live, and since last year I have the honour to be a NKBKHK shinsa jury member. Judging these items is not always easy, there is more info about swords available than there is about armor. And yes, also for swords, there are discussions and different opinions. Therefore, the shinsa only gives an estimated age, and a quotation about the historical value of the item. I can testify that the judging happens very seriously and based on true knowledge, provided by the leading experts in Japan. And also we are learning every day. I see a certain evolution in Japan to provide more information about the items, but this needs more time. We (the Japanese Armor Society, this is the western branch of the NKBKHK) are preparing a shinsa in the west, under the supervision of the Japanese jury-members. the plan is to do more research in advance and to give more information IF possible. I hope this gave you a little bit more insight about the NKBKHK Shinsa papers.

And look at it, isn’t it beautifull? With colofon in English.

indeed Ian, this is no competition. I am allways in for synergies. After all, there is only the beauty of Japanese Armor.

Our forum has a members only section, but this was a condition sine qua non for several of our contributing members. Our public section allows non-members to start any discussion (armor related). We are glad to help you as good as we can. https://www.japanesearmorsociety.org/phpbb/index.php

The Jas and the NKBKHK membership are no obligation, but an opportunity. 380 members are happy with their membership. I know no one with a yacht, but I have a kayak, does this count also? Btw, Aymeric is not a board member.

Eric, I hope you are still around. 15 months later, and the magazine is in full colour, thanks to the efforts of the Western Branch. Our new yearbook is almost ready, full of great full colour pictures and information you cannot find anywhere else. We work for the serious armor-students, as good as we can. And we are booking results on many fields. Who still want to become a member even now in 2018 will receive this second yearbook for free! Here the link to subscribe: www.Japanese-armor.org/eng

this branch of the Matsudaira were very much interested in Okimono, an they had a nice collection of it. It is interesting to see that they used similar techniques for their armor.

Here some pictures of the Echizen Matsudaira armor, mid 18th century

There is an armor in the Fukui museum, with a dou and sode that move like a jizai okimono. There is a technical discription with drawingsn in the catalogue.

Only a few Saotome if I remember well

Francesco Grazzi gave a lecture about this examination method on kabuto an swords during ou Japanese Legacy Symposium in Firenze 2014 and 2016. The result were fascinating, both for swords and kabuto. Very interesting article, thanks for sharing!

Thanks for sharing Javier! Miura is famous in Japan. And Andy allways was obsessed by making armor.

Jack, there is one in the Barbier Mueller collection, signed Unkai Mitsuhisa. The Berlin museum also has one, unsigned. And I saw some in Japan as well. Piers, I think we can call this style Kaga zogan no kabuto? And yes, absolute rule n° 1 when collecting and learning: use your eyes.

Hi Jack, This was a style often seen in the early edo period. Russet iron and silver inlay. I think 17century. Nice!

If you need the support of the Japanese Armor Society for the next edition, we are happy to listen how we can help.

The expo was great, I really enjoyed it. Not at least because I met a bunch of interesting people. Our Japanese Armor Society member Mark Radburn gave a nice presentation about Higo koshirae.... this was new to me. Prof. Eckhard Kremers introduced me into the wonderfull world of Heian to Muromachi tsuba.

Brian, you could be very close now...is there more documentation on this?

Brian, there is a civil war going on in Japan about the existance of Nobuie. Some say he is a fabrication of the Myochin, others say he did exist. Who do you mean with Kaneie? Or do you mean Katsuie? There is no known relation to any other smith.

Brian, owning a Ietada is owning one of the very best kabuto from the edo period. The world around, I see owners melting when they hold their treasure in their hands. His 62 plates are the very best after Gitsu and Takayoshi, but his koboshi are mindblowing. Ian, you know what I am talking about, yours is such a masterpiece.