Miura

Thanks so much for this post. Im happy that Markus wrote this article. I wrote extensively on early cast iron tsuba on another message board back in 2012. But because certain members were so vehemently opposed to the idea. The responses became almost vulgar and derogatory because the subject had been "discussed and closed" on the nihonto message board already. I have not posted related to tosogu since then because the topic of cast iron tsuba and cast sword fittings seemed to enrage people. So much so that people were afraid to contribute or come to my defence. Im not sure why the notion upsets people because cast pieces are not inferior. There was cast armor as well. The addition of the video to the article I find to be amusing. Here is cast iron tsuba and sand tubes that I purchased back in 2008 from a construction site in NARA where they were discovered. Perhaps even the construction site that lead to the excavation. I just know when and how I purchased them. Henry Wilson is the only person I have shown them to. Andrew Mancabelli

Hi Guys, Now you know why my participation if forums is rare. A lot of haters and jealous people out there. Yes I do have the credentials. I have written two books on contract from PUBLIC, government affiliated entities. One in Japanese and one in English. Additionally, I have published an array of articles in Japanese and english over many years on the topic. None of my publications are so-called "vanity press" which means I published them myself.... AKA proclaiming myself as an expert. I have also done contract work for number of PUBLIC government organizations as a Japanese armor EXPERT to help them protect, preserve, identify, and restore their collections. I hesitate to give names of those organizations here so as to keep the haters from attempting to badmouth me to such entities. I have a very good name as a trustworthy expert. Forget about the private organizations and individuals I have worked for. In fact some of you have come to me for advice, and some of the dealers you mentioned have contracted me for my services.... all of which I keep confidential to protect them and myself. I am no more a dealer than the rest of you, occasionally selling from my own collection to pay the bills or upgrade. I do specialize in restoration, and advising. I have produced a body of work and been judged by peers. Before slandering somebody on a public forum you may wish to research them first. Much of my public work is available on the internet. This is why in general I do not participate in these forums. Andy Mancabelli

Im leaving an opinion here as I had a friend on here who requested I do so. First off, I believe the kabuto to be older, but its mis-identified as Nambokucho. In my opinion, dealers are welcome to ask whatever they want for an armor. That is THEIR business. It is the responsibility of the BUYER to figure out whether or not the dealer is trustworthy in their description of the armor or not. At these prices, it is a very serious game to play if you are not an expert. I find in general that the dealers of these armors are indeed not experts, just glorified retail salesmen. Some of the so-called "best" collections in the world are littered with fake and mis-identified pieces. To save money and embarrassment it is best to hire a reliable, qualified, expert to authenticate and properly describe an item. I do this service for several Japanese and international clients so they can feel their investment is solid and know what they are buying. Best, Andy

Hi Guys, Again sorry for the late reply. At least I got one notification this time. Ian, I have seen a very thorough collection of photographs of the london tower armor before it was restored. It really was time to do it. If they hadn't done it, it would have continued to deteriorate. The restoration was quite conservative (as could be), and the color scheme was chosen based on what it was originally based on tiny fragments of cord that still existed between the scales. The urushi was done as conservatively as possible and the signature "Iwai Yozaemon" was preserved on the inside of the shikoro. Quite a few of the kanamono were fabricated as well by a national treasure kanamonoshi (Ibuse san) - now deceased. As the kuwagata was gone, they modeled the present one after a smilar armor in Japan. (the hinomaru) Im really sorry you couldn't make it to Kentucky. I would love to have met you in person. Tomorrow is the last day of the packing/cleanup. If the armor above comes to Japan in a couple years, we will likely be working together. I know the Watanabe collection. I think the museum is basically always buying and selling though like most private museums in Japan so I would not be surprised if the owner had been the one to order the production of the fake you mentioned. I have seen other replicas from that collection that were russet! In the last year a variety of fake dragonfly kawari have popped out - using old hachi. Nowadays fake signatures are a plenty.... and as long as people buy the stuff it will be for sale. Why wont people buy legitimate modern stuff anymore? Do they like being lied to? Anyway, I digress from the subject. Justin, I am really happy that you were able to attend. I wish I could have been there when you were there to give you the tour. Unfortunately they left out a lot of the back story for some of the more important items such as Yamaguchi samanosuke's helmet, Mogami Yoshiaki's armor, and of course Okudaira Nobumasa's armor. The stories of those pieces are really interesting and key in the shaping of modern Japan. We also had the aikuchi that Tokugawa Ieyasu wore to Hideyoshi's golden tea ceremony..... they were there, but without the tour they were just really nice items. I think that Clive either removed or changed the link.... Anyway, you can probably look it up in bohnam's history. It was the auction of October 2011 in New york. If somebody were interested in it I migh be able to discuss it with the owner. Its also published in the catalog for the samurai exhibition at the Frazier History Museum. The sale for the catalogs will be over in a couple weeks. Its only $9.99 now! Guys, thanks for all the chat on these interesting topis. Off to bed. Another early day. Best, Andy

Hi Ian, Again, I have to apologize for my reply being late as it is. I had signed up to receive an email if somebody answered this thread but it did not come. The display has kept me so busy I have not had a minute to spend on forums. Be careful with brutality, but I think you did it with class so no offense. You are just being conservative as it is a rather important armor. Lets forget about the details of the gumpai kamon. As you said yourself, sengoku variations are a mine field. The research I did with all of the Uesugi artifacts turned up multiple variations within that family alone. As for this, style is proper for period and proper for Okudaira, but thats not the reason I would say its absolutely Okudaira Nobumasa's armor. I thought I answered this earlier but I guess I was not clear. The armor came from Okudaira Nobumasa's temple. The one he founded in Kyoto when he was working as attache/liason to the Emperor for the Shogun. It was owned by the temple and on display in a museum for a number of years and and was published as under their ownership in several exhibition catalogs right up until it was sold by the temple to the collector who purchased it. (they should have been referenced by Bohnams catalog) Period wise it is correct, and when I took it apart yesterday (we are cleaning up still - 240 items) I looked a the lacing up close. Its hand woven! (rather than a die weave) I found that interesting as well and maybe why it is so well preserved. Does it date to his time, I don't know. The armor definitely does. In my opinion the shikoro was changed out sometime around Sekigahara, as the koshimaki has been turned down. From my experience, armors with kasajikoro were mostly changed to hineno etc. before that battle or shortly after. All of the fabrics are proper and match. Condition. Yes its in good condition. But its what I would expect form something that was in temple storage. Condition is very consistent with such items. I have worked with a number of shrines and temples on research and restoration projects and I would just say that there are so many different conditions that cause things to either deteriorate or not. The best condition being those which are kept in boxes, not too cold, and far enough away from the ocean that they don't rust. The other thing is of course the original quality. Old Haruta preserves the best. They used the best iron and the best urushi. Thats what we have here.... I still have to assume that at some point it did have some stuff restored. In general, I have found that shrines and temples do not mess with boxes and armors. They are very superstitious, and very conservative regarding their items. Every time I work with them I promise to keep my research/photographs private unless special permission is given to publish. Im a bit superstitious myself. You can trust the province of this armor. Plain and simple. I would trust it more than the province of the ones in the London Tower. I mean, didn't they get brought over by John Saris after all? hehe. And didn't they have a bunch of kanamono ripped off of them? Who's to say they are what the museum says they are..... (I'm Joking but I think it makes my point) At some point we have to either trust our records, and the individuals who represent the items. I understand. It is a body of evidence. Here, I represent it. I like to think that I have a very good reputation - especially amongst the Japanese. Yes, false attributions are a plenty these days and have made millionaires of evil men. I am poor, and honest. I chose that path many years ago while everybody else got rich. I would stake my life on this armor - and its not mine. I wish you could have been here for the exhibition we had some great pieces including a couple that were National Treasure level, and many other bunkazai class pieces. Your book is still a standard for Samurai arms and Armor. If not one of the best. I hope we can together in person sometime soon. Best, Andy

Ian Bottomley Ian, Its difficult to say what Nobumasa (at that time Sadamasa) felt about Shingen, but we know he didn't like Katsuyori. Further research should be done on Kamon before we close the door (one way or the other). The reasoning above is logical and in plain sight, which is why I would have assumed the "Takeda" mon to NOT be present if somebody was trying to pull a fast one. Further, I don't think that particular design was directly a Takeda family mon. Similar design, but not what the main Takeda family used. I would expect a "hana-bishi" mon - for Takeda. These particular types of small kanamono were applied to armors during the late 1500s so the style is right, but it had been re-laced and they must be removed to re-lace. I suppose there were probably more on the armor at one point. In other armors that I have seen in shrines and temples, such decorations (even when broken or discarded) are kept with the original armor in the box. The Okudaira armor had been re-laced several times and had the shikoro replaced at least once - likely circa 1600 - and definitely had the age. I assume at least part of the re-lacing was done sometime from the second half of the 18th-first half of the 19th century as the weave of the silk is common for that period. The armor was previously owned by the temple in question - thats a fact and its printed in two publications-, but was loaned out to museums for several years and was sold off right at the burst of the bubble. I don't know if that was any reason for its sale - we can only guess. I personally feel the armor to be the real deal. The inscription in the box is definitely old as it was applied before the wood of the box cracked from age as the boarders of the crack match perfectly with the old crack of the box. The armor is currently on loan to the Frazier museum in Kentucky. (it doesn't belong to me by the way but I am a big supporter of its provenance). It is credited as belonging to Okudaira Nobumasa and I would not have allowed this to go through unless I was 100% convinced it did belong to him. In september when we are packing up, you are welcome to come have a look for yourself. Best, Andy Mancabelli

Dear Ford, I take it back, maybe there is something personal directed at me because I continue to get full credit for an article that I wrote only part of. I wonder why this is? Anyway, thanks for making me out to be such a hard working author. It was quite a bit of work to put together, as fragmented as it was. I think I explained the reasons for some of the so-called "contradictions" and I think I was pretty harsh on the article myself. I don't think that you people really want the article to be removed do you? I do think that you all, yes even you Ford see the merit in the work. It was years ago and was the first article to get down to the topic. Im glad that our research inspired some of you to ask more questions. Building on other's research is what it is all about. The reason that it was written was inspire people to get to the "truth" that you folks speak of . We saw a great deal of inconsistency amongst designated so-called katchushi tsuba and wanted to throw out some new info. and get brains working. Nobody had done anything like it before. The Armor info I was responsible for, and I have a pretty good idea of the composition of the items I contributed. Unfortunately, at that time I did not have a budget for analysis. I did use some some chemical techniques to test, and of course used a record of knowledge gained through physical testing of materials I knew to be old. Yes there were some holes in the chain of reasoning that had to be filled in by the reader, and left openings for critique. There are some critics that you just can't satisfy unfortunately - no matter what. The best critique is a well organized paper that contradicts the information. Ford, the challenge is still there. Go ahead and publish your own article. Open yourself up to critique. Hopefully people will be more constructive with you than you were with Boris and myself. Bring some new information to the table and you will make a lot of people happy.... even if you have a couple mistakes here or there. On the other hand, to formulate a critique the way you did with the words you chose will only result in people who disagree with you to shut up and remain quiet. Is that what you hope to achieve? I think there are a lot of people who agree with me here who are in fact the quiet type and don't want to come into conflict with you Ford. Look at us, here wasting time when we could be making a work of art. This is silly. I cant be drawn out any more on this guys I'm just to busy. Best, Andy

Hey Guys. This is my first post here and I am sorry that this is what it had to be. I noticed a rather verbose attack on this thread regarding an article that Boris Markhasin and myself published years ago. Thanks for giving me all the credit, but it WAS indeed co-authored by Boris and myself. The article has a lot of good information if it is not taken out of context, and my biggest problem with the attack is that the quotes were taken out of context, and there were diagrams etc. that did tie in the information. Yes there were some shortcomings to the article. It was an article written by two guys collaborating at a very busy time and things such as how rust wears away differently on iron of varying carbon content exposing bones, etc. should have been covered and detailed explanations given - but it had to be edited and cut to fit a magazine and perhaps some of the dots connecting things got edited out though they were still there in our heads. We should have had more outside readers, and we did have a couple. I noticed Ian also brought to mind the surface of armor that is often covered by urushi - so it doesn't wear down as tsuba do over time with rust etc. This is stuff armor guys see and take as matter of fact. I work on a lot of armors. Mostly dating to the Momoyama and Muromachi Periods which is where my interest lies. Sometimes I have to cut it, drill it, file it etc to repair it. Haruta iron will burn your drill bit out, and haruta armor with myouchin patches half a century later will have the haruta iron looking like new and the myouchin patch looking as old as sin because it rusts like hell. I see a lot of things that I take for granted, and is maybe why I might have left something out and/or Boris mistakenly edited it out not knowing the significance. I don't think Ford Hallam was going after Boris' and my article with the purpose of internet bullying,(we have had our differences) but I do think that the out of context attacks on the article might confuse a new reader and perhaps be viewed as such. I don't think its where you want to go with this forum. If the points that were made were weak, and again I agree collaborating can convolute a theme, perhaps Mr. Hallam would wish to conduct his own research and publish an article that contradicts our article concisely with his own observations or better yet, write an article that brings new information to the table to be discussed. Unfortunately, the purpose of the out-of-context arguments confuses even myself. The articles that are posted on our site are basically there to generate interest and introduce some new points. Maybe at some point that particular article will get a re-write so it is easier understood. I wish I had more time to participate with you all on this topic. If any of you think I might have information that you would be interested in you are welcome to contact me personally. Best, Andy M.