Gakusee

Somehow some elements of the sword do not seem congruent with Masamune but an in hand inspection is necessary.

Who attributed it to Masamune please? Thanks for letting me know.

However that blade is not on display. It needs to be requested.

Piers, please do share with us videos and share photos of your gunpowder exploits. I really love them! Thanks in advance

Bruce, I recommend you buy the Sesko e-book about the Honami family and read about that tradition of appraising and evaluating Japanese swords. It will help you understand how Japanese swords were viewed not only as weapons (as gunto were) but as spiritual objects, historical objects (the regalia passed down from Japanese deities), repositories of value (swords were given “gold coin” evaluations), elements signifying caste belonging, weapons, prizes and accolades for outstanding military feats of heroism, etc.

Big Jimmy in Antarctica, my name is in my signature:) By the way, why are you asking about that blade and how did you come across it? It is not well publicised or too widely known…. It is a very good Soshu den sword with very interesting activities and promise. It could be a Shizu or something of that ilk or even Masamune depending on polish. It bears a Kojo (one of most reputed Honami judges) kinzogan, but that kinzogan is a bit different from the typical Kojo kinzogan. To paraphrase Tanobe sensei, “it needs further study”. As far as I know, the sword has not been to Japan for shinsa. From our old records: Nagasa: 72.0 cm Moto-haba: 3.1 cm Saki-haba: 2.0 cm Sugata: Hon-zukuri, a graceful tori-zori, chu-kissaki, mitsu-mune. Jihada: A prominent and flowing itame-hada with mokume and abundant ji-nie forming chikei. Hamon: Fine nie-deki, notare-midare with some gunome like inclusions, profuse sunagaeshi which spills over into the ji in places and kinsuji. The boshi is slightly midare-komi with very little kaeri. Horimono: A bo-hi on both sides that finishes in the nakago between the two mekugi-ana. Nakago: Suriage by probably 3 or 4 cm and machi-okuri, 2 mekugi-ana. Kiri-jiri, faint kiri yasurime are just visible and the bo-hi finishes in a pointed end. There is kin-zogan mei on the sashi-omote MASAMUNE and on the sashi-ura HON-A with kao [KOJO]. This sword has a robust sugata that retains its elegance in spite of the suriage. Both the hamon and the jihada reflect the nie dominant hataraki, which together with the large itame- mokume- hada and mitsu- mune, associate the sword with old Soshu- den. The shape is both graceful and strong whilst the bo- hi provide the sword with a balance that makes it very easy to handle. It is in fine condition and all details are easy to see. Previously it was the property of Alfred Dobree, an active collector in the early 20th century, who donated it to the Victoria & Albert Museum in London.

No, he did not. He worked at the BM

Several of us have seen it

Luc, I tried to log in to the JAS forum using my credentials in the new pop-up box. I hope that is not some spoof as I input my actual log-ins

Curran with all due respect…. Different game between tsuba and swords and also completely different at high sword level. The kodogu shinsa experts are different from the sword experts and different people do the shinsa. And also the shinsa panel has been shrinking due to ill health and aging of the judges. We are down to two- three judges (and I heard the third one is unwell too). Hence the limits to submissions And so on and so on. So, folks, it is easy to criticise. It is not easy to design a sustainable and solid path forward. Not hypothetical, not idealistic (such as feed all certificates in an AI model and let it do the shinsa or out everything in a database for everyone to access on a global basis) but one that would work culturally, socially, morally and economically within Japan and in an old-fashioned body like the NBTHK. CF the attached photo of the recent 75 anniversary NBTHK symposium that I attended in 2023 and have a look at the NBTHK management (left of the podium) and the members. Draw your own conclusions about age, approach, appropriateness and so on.

Colin, apologies for being ambiguous: I meant koshirae and tsuba. I also agree with you that we should not argue about aesthetics here or personal tastes as these embody the Meiji era.

The pieces are overall better than average. However, the condition of many was indeed compromised and there were various gimei items. Some of those that attracted very high prices were acquired at Juyo-level (ie mei verified, age verified, top quality and top condition assured) prices, when in fact they were not at that level. A couple of gems went unnoticed or went at reasonable prices.

Well, I know those who visited from NKBKHK enjoyed it. Unfortunately my schedule could not coincide with the NKBKHK trip.

Thanks Piers. I will not hold too much hope regarding the timeline. They promised an opening last autumn. After 2-3 delays. Informally, they have been showing people around the museum and holding private viewings. Do you know what is delaying the public opening - is it some health & safety or some other regulations in relation to the exhibits (eg how Kokuho / JuBun etc are shown)

The reason is that they have business limits (in particular bottom thresholds) which they must meet if they are to register certain items and also to run certain auctions. So, often they tend to group items to meet these internal thresholds. Also there are thresholds which apply to the overall value / expectation for the auction as a whole (and there is a minimum there too). Finally, they make a judgement on what is a more desirable item and what is a less desirable item. If these two belong to the same collector, they might recommend to the seller to group the least desirable items with 1-2 more attractive items so that they are not left with unsold stock, relying on exactly what the original poster is complaining about - having to buy the whole lot.

I would add Chappelear’s intro and overview book - to me it is still a great reference about schools and mei. The Stibert Museum catalogue is both a catalogue of 100 or so great items but also overview of the main schools and the items are grouped according to these schools - for me (a katchu beginner), this is also a helpful book. Albeit more visual, there are nice descriptions. I wish Markus did an English version of his German publication but he is too busy…

Have you consulted Markus Sesko’s book on swordsmiths? Best to go on his website and purchase the electronic copy if you have not got it. I personally prefer Markus’s anthology to Hawley but people often refer to Hawley too.

Thanks Piers. I have seen it occasionally in machine translations but did not expect it would make it to the official poster. Anyway, it sounds like a great event to attend locally.

I am sure it will be a very good event and good luck to the exhibitors for a fruitful outcome. Wish I could attend. Bob, just one question: what is “orthosis” in this context? Sounds like machine translation.

The Crying Fox Awataguchi Kuniyoshi uchigatana (epitome of that term) is a beautiful sword. I would say, even mesmerising. Note that it is much earlier than the typical 50-65cm single-use Muromachi swords.

…. And additionally: also specifically competition within the blades forged by the very smith whose blade has been submitted to Juyo and above. But I think you are capturing that element by referring to the “grand scheme” of Nihonto.

Yes, it has. And in one case, the subsequent new owner (back in Japan) of the JuBi was not too happy that the JuBi paper had been invalidated. There are also various JuBi that pop up in the US and elsewhere which had been illegally removed by mainly American WWII soldiers. As these were not exported legally, theoretically their JuBi paper is not invalidated through the legal channels. So if you found such a JuBi, it would still have a JuBi status (which in itself is an expired but respected and desired designation).

I agree with Ray. in fact, the Juyo evaluation criteria mention that a blade needs to be of JuBi quality to deserve Juyo. In the case of TokuJu it needs to be of JuBu quality. in the cases of JuBi, JuBi, Kokuho on top of great preservation and quality you also have the historic provenance and importance factor. That is to be borne in mind. Sometimes people get confused and think a JuBi is superior to a Juyo blade. Well, probably in 50-60% of the cases it might be. But there are plenty of JuBi where their quality is inferior to a top grade Juyo or where the JuBi mei today will probably not be confirmed as authentic by any of the authorities (Bunkacho or NBTHK). To point to the heart of the matter: if you have enough money (to buy JuBi) and appropriate contacts, your acquired JuBi can indeed be removed from the JuBi register, thus losing any status. Then it can be exported. However, one needs to be prepared to “lose monetary value” if one wants to sell it again or sell it back into Japan. That is because people pay a premium for JuBi status (not JuBi quality, as discussed above).

Alex 20-25 years ago when I started looking into swords and started going to Token GB meetings, seeing Juyo was like seeing a Yeti. Ultra rare and perhaps once every few years when one popped at an auction. Now it is very different….

Alex, that is strange. I have the opposite impression - standards are tightening, especially at Juyo and Tokuju levels. Even for ToHo, sometimes items need to be submitted twice. It is logical that if Juyo standards are tightening, so should the level below, ToHo. I personally think that it is a misperception about how the criteria are being applied by the shinsa panel and how we, outside of the NBTHK, interpret the criteria that causes the biggest issue. As collectors we tend to have a bias towards the blades we own, since we own them because we like them. Sometimes that subjectivity clouds our objectivity.