markturner

I can see from my various books and interweb searches that sujikai is a diagonal downward file pattern in the nakago, however, i have been unable to find a picture or diagram or description of what gyaku sujikai is. Can someone help please? reason is, help in ruling out possible candidate for smith on one of swords - apparently this style of marking is unusual. thank you! Mark

This sword struck me as having a very strange shaped nakago, is it common? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Katana-Mumei-un ... 946wt_1344 Just an idle question really, Cheers, mark

Ok thanks for the answers, it appears to be a bit of a mystery, hoping the next meeting of the To-ken society and Mr Clive Sinclair will shed some light on things, thanks, Mark

Thanks for the answers guys, so I am glad I was not missing something there... Cheers, Mark

Hi, in some of my literature, particularly the handbook from the To-ken society i just joined, it refers to looking at the colour of the steel as part of assessing the quality of the blade. Try as i might, i cannot seem to differentiate any shades of yellow, blue, white or black as referred to in the text on any of my three blades. is there a "trick" to doing this, or is it just my untrained eye? All my blades look like shiny silver to me...... Thanks, Mark

Hi Stan, I say the sayagaki is by Heijuro, as that is how it is described in the auction catalogue ( the blade was auctioned by Sothebys in 1979 and I have the catalogue, came with the blade). Other than that, and not being able to read Japanese (sadly) I can't be sure. I kind of assumed it said so on the sayagaki. Can you read what it says from my crappy photos? I have studied the blade carefully, along with my books etc and it certainly looks like a "good" blade, excellent polish, good hamon, activity going on the right side of the hamon, nice boshi, very thick and nicely shaped. Incidentally, what does anyone think of the traces of whitish inlay in the Mei? Unusual? It's a shame there is no regular shinsa here, I would like to take it along. I have just joined the To-ken society of Great Britain, so perhaps Clive Sinclaire or one of the other guys there may be able to shed further light. Its certainly fascinating trying to piece together the history and provenance of these pieces, regards, Mark

Thank you Stan & Chris, very helpful. Perhaps not exactly what I wanted to hear as the mei issue is unusual. looking at the pictures of the sword in the first link, my blade is very similar in the sugata, hamon and nakago, which is encouraging, but the mei is as you said not the same at all. What does the sayagaki tell you or add to the equation? To me it raises the question, if the blade was of a unlisted ( and by implication not so good smith) why have a Honami heijuro sayagaki, ( presumably he must have thought it good to do the sayagaki) and also, if the smith was 16th generation from sanjo munechika, would he not be known of by lineage or reputation somehow? As you say Stan, an interesting puzzle! Interestingly, the second sword linked by Stan is nothing like the first in its hamon, very different. Why would that be? My blade was also in the Bigelow collection at one time, again, that says to me it must be of some note, would you not agree? It's strange that with all the seemingly very obvious pointers ( lineage claim to very famous smith, sayagaki, etc) that the sword is not more easily attributable with certainty. One more point, what does the 2nd mekugi say to you ? Apart from that, the blade shows no other signs of being suriage to my untrained eye.... thank you, Mark

Hi Stan, thanks, yes I guess you have to assume that the smith could have been active 15- 20 years before and after the given dates, especially if the date just indicates period of peak activity. This is all like a very old who dunnit...!! Regards, Mark

Hi Stan, here you go, sorry for the quality, phone camera was all I have handy! Thanks so much for your interest and help, rgds, Mark

Hi Stan, a bit of digging around on the interweb leads me to believe both of those books are both expensive and very difficult to find. Is it possible for you to dig out the info on the smiths I referenced from Hawleys? It would be much appreciated if you have those reference books. regards, Mark

Hi , I have been using the Sho-shin and nihonto club database to try and find the exact smith for two of my swords. found a few likely candidates on both the internet sites, but today visited my dealer Don bayney and while there, had a look in his copy of Hawleys. I found possibles in there that were not appearing in either of the two internet sites, specifically, SU415 and MU283,286 & 272. Sho -shin lists all the munetsugu smiths and their hawleys numbers from 520 to 560, however in hawleys, the numbers are in the 200's. Why does the sho-shin database give hawleys numbers that are 100's apart? I wondered why they appeared in the book and not on the database and how, I can find any further info on those hawleys numbered smiths, on the internet anywhere. Thanks, Mark

Thank you Guido. That throws up a couple of questions for me: Firstly, what is the english translation? I am assuming it is something to do with 16th generation? ( see my thread regarding this sword here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11965 )Second, is it usual for the name of a very famous smith from hundreds of years before to be linked in the mei in this way? I have been looking on the nihontoclub database and can find no munetsugu who signed like that. Without checking the date on the nakago ( i can do this tomorrow when i get it back) I have been told the sword is dated 1819. The only Munetsgugu from that time is this one: http://nihontoclub.com/smiths/MUN555 many thanks, Mark

Hi, please can someone translate this for me? If the image is not clear enough, I can arrange for better photo many thanks, Mark

OK, I have established thanks to Jean, that there are 2 possible Munetsugu smiths who could have made the sword, one from Iwashiro, rated Jo saku, 380 points and Suishinsi lineage school. The other, is From Musashi, rated jo jo / joyo 700 points Tsunatera lineage/school. My feeling is that the former is probably the smith, as while it would be nice, I don't think my sword is 700 points good...unless I got real lucky!! Jean says I should look at oshigata of the two smiths, so anyone who has any, please let me know, and otherwise, any pointers to further information on either smiths and or schools, greatfully received. How would I also go about tracing the lineage back to Munechika, as My Munetsugu is specifically referenced as a 16th Generation Sanjo Munechika on the sayagaki. Edit: The Mei has been translated as "Sanjo munechika jurokudai munetsugu" . I cant find any Munetsugu with a Mei like this either on nihontoclub database or shin shinto. That would seem to rule out either of the two possibles I mentioned above. Not sure where to go from here....How would the lineage be able to be traced ? Many thanks, Mark

Hi Jean, are any of those available digitally to look at? Or do you have to buy them.. I see the second Munetsugu is rated 700 points and jo jo / Juyo, so its probably unlikely to be him unless I have got real lucky...which would be nice! The sword was ex the Bigelow collection and has a Honami sayagaki, so it's certainly a decent sword...but probably not that decent ! best, Mark

Hi Jean, thanks for that. One question arising, if it does represent peak activity, then my swords date is only 11 years earlier than the second Munetsugu I referred to, it's possible he could also have done it? Presumably the period of peak activity would be preceded by several years of lesser activity and learning, in which case there is an overlap of the two possible smiths? In my case, how would you best tell ? The sho-shin database appears to only cover the Koto period, where can I look for details of Munetsugu post Koto? regards, Mark

Hi Jean, does the date indicate the start of the period of activity, the centre or some other range? A swordsmith could have a long working life and if the date indicates the start of this, then the range of possibilities is much greater. The useage link did not seem to make that very clear. Specifically, my sword is dated 1819, so for example, there is a Munetsugu working in iwashiro province, the date shown in the sho-shin database is 1804, so I could safely assume it is probably that Munetsugu ? The next Munetsugu listed has a date of 1830, so he would be too late? Thanks for your patience! Regards, Mark

Hi guys, I am using the sho-sin link that Jean kindly provided to try and hunt down some information on the Munetsugu smith who made my Katana ( see thread titled same recently) and have found a couple in the right age. can someone tell me how the dates for the smiths work? Do they indicate the smiths DOB, or the start of the Era in which he was working? IE if my sword is dated 1812, and the smiths era is shown as 1803, does that mean he could have made my sword? Or would he have only been 9 years old... Cheers, Mark

Dave, the pictures of the blade and fittings are at the end of the "Aoi art" thread in this section, cheers, Mark

That's perfect, thanks to you both for the quick reply and the fantastic links, if you are interested, I will post a picture of the Tokubetsu hozon papers, which those of you who speak Japanese may be able to get some more information from. My sword is attributed to 1360, so that would fit date wise. Best regards, Mark

Yes, it's certainly a very nice looking sword, what more do you know about it? I recently acquired a blade from the same shop and am also very pleased. Regards, Mark

Hi, try as I might, I cannot find any information about this school, which my latest blade is attributed to. Please can anyone help or give me some pointers? If it helps, here is the text of the description sent with the sword: "Special feature : The founder of Uda school started from Kamakura period by Konyudo Kunimitsu. His students Kunifusa,Kunimune were working at Nanbokucyo period and this school kontinued Muromachi period and Edo period. The swords which were made Kamamura to Nanbokucyo period is called Kouda school and Muromachi period is called jest Uda school. This school Uda has special feature of blackish jigane and Hadatachi(zanguri) jigane. This school was influenced by Yamato school and sosyu school." I was going to add this question as a postscript to the pictures in the Aoi art thread I recently started, but figured it may get overlooked, so hence the new thread, apologies for bombarding you with threads and questions!! Thanks in advance, Mark

Hi Dave, that's so true. the real criminals are as armed up as they want or need to be, and the only result of the legislation is that normal law abiding people have their lives and hobbies spoilt by pointless beaurocracy. but that's a discussion for another time/place... Anyway, here are the pictures you requested: cheers, Mark

I have a picture from my phone of the page in the auction catalogue that shows the mei fairly clearly, and also the blade, does this help? regards, Mark

It was indeed the Coventry facility.... thanks for the tip Paul, i will try and remember that one next time. Regards, Mark