CurtisR

Ahhhhhh - I have heard of "Unknown-san" and his sons "Wellmade-san" and "Notsogud-san"...perhaps mine will be by the father also Curtis

OUCH Stephen! - although I can take it! And Marius, I don't think we specifically discussed Sadamune (and OH yes it's far-fetched indeed but I had to say somethin' ) - but yes, books and swords, books & swords!! Ok, I'll remain silent and learn until Shinsa Still..................I wonder......... heh-heh :D Curtis R.

I've been searching, reading and lurking here in the attempt to come up with my own possibility on school or smith. Last night, while doing research, I ran into the work of Sadamune (Yamato school?) and was wondering if those here might have an opinion on the possibility. Specifically, mine is very similar to one specific blade; the "Meibutsu Kikko Sadamune"....similar in many ways to my eyes. I know it's a HUGE guess - and hopefully not an arrogant one - but thought I'd throw it out here . I should have the blade back in shirasaya soon & will be better able to provide good pics and kantai specifics, but please feel free to comment. If you google the "Sademune Sword School", you'll get a lot of hits but here's a quick link: http://www.sho-shin.com/sag5.html Many thanks! Curtis R.

Just stopping by to say "Thank You" to Jean for posting the link to "The Shape of the Sword"....only a bit through it and it's excellent! Printed and saved to disk! Curtis R.

Thanks Chris - this makes sense...I WISH I had it here, as now I'm really curious to examine it under a loupe. I also need a bit more uchiko & perhaps some alcohol just under the habaki as there is some "goop" (probably old oil) that fogs the clarity. Not much though (uchiko/alcohol) - don't want to screw it up before shinsa! I'm still debating on having a window opened...money is the main factor (isn't it always??) so time will tell . Thank you! Curtis R.

This is an excellent statement or way of putting it Darcy!! Thank you for such a great answer as well - so much to know. I DID take horrible pics (not knowing the importance of)of the area of the machi and will correct/add once it's back. I can say that it appears that the hamon continues into the nakago but guess I'll (we'll) see in a month or tow eh? I'm going to have to digest the rest of your info. as well (and print/save lol) --- Many thanks for such a great reply with so much info.!! More to follow my friends and cohorts ~ Curtis R. Man, I just don't know now...

I do Brian - it's a mixed argument. Chris says he believes ubu but Mr. Tirado (making shirasaya) and other believe o-suriage. Is there a WAY to tell, from the finish of the nakago, whether it IS o-suriage or ubu? In other words, can you give me pointers on what to look for at the end of the nakago (once I have it back in-hand) that give clues to either, other than the bohi?I know that the deepest part of the sori is about 20-30 cm from the nakago so is this what "they" look for? And then extend it on out mentally? I don't mean to insult anyone - ever - but it seems to be the big part of the argument vs. the hamon, etc. Many thanks, Curtis R.

Darcy, I have to humbly disagree with you on this one...yes, much of it is due to the quality of images, BUT...the boji are (IMHO) very nicely crafter - jizo hamon in the kissaki - really NICE balance, and sugata as well as (I'm with Chris here, even though there is on one mekugiana) Ubu. After doing a lot of reading this last week or two - and looking at mannnnny pics - my guess is that it willbe of the Kenuji LINE, and an early to mid-period Mino school blade . I guess shinsa will (I hope) determine if I'm right, but then I'm pretty new to this although I think I'm on the right track. Even via the Conn. Book of Japanese Swords under Mino leads at least some gredence to my guess. Regardless, we gotta love a mystery!! Curtis R.

Jean-san...I think you know very well of what you speak - I respect ALL opinions! And thank you - having dealt mainly with showto, moving back in time is a learning experience. Either Koto or Shinfo, Ubu or O-suriage, it is a beauty to hold! Especially at the random luck of the find, and the awesome price from a life-long friend. Many thanks, Curt R.

Dear Chris & all, thank you - it will get a bit more uchiko over the time (NOT a lot!) and will hopefully be accepted. It truly does look better in person. And Jean, that's very interesting!! Ahhhhh.....crafty craftsmen! I am learning a lot of respect got those who can properly kantei . I will probably get it back in shirasaya in a month or two, so then it'll remain a mystery until Shinsa but I really appreciate everyone's input. And please, don't hesitate to message me with a thought or what have you - or post!! To your week-ends Curtis

And to Mr. Bowen; Sir you read my mind! I believe that'll be my plan...I don't want to risk a "so-so" polish and expense if it turns out that it might be a very good blade. I will look into the polisher you suggested, also - but fortunately I have a bit of time to save up, eh?? Curtis R.

Jean, I have a photo example of the blades sori and periods right in front of me with the katana above it...my novice eye sees it landing in Kamakura-land (and if ubu, the nakago structure is correct too) but Shinsa will tell much! Hey, at least you have to admit it's a mystery ---- as a wise man stated here early on; "We post...we learn" (to paraphrase) . Sincerely, Curtis R.

A window! See why I come here? lol...seriously hadn't thought of that but it makes great sense! I will look into this but again, the costs to send to Japan....ah well, something to figure out! Also to Jean I forgot to thank you for the link - awesome and very interesting. I need to study it more but I think I see what you're pointing out. Curtis R.

Roger that Ken - I know if one can afford it, a new shirasaya and habaki are part of the polishing deal. For now, with limited $$, I just want to protect it even at a bit of extra cost for a couple of yrs. until I can send it to Japan for polish, etc. Why wasn't I born rich vs. beautiful?? Hey....wait....I've been ripped off TWICE! :D Anyway, here are a few more with the levels adjusted properly...it does give a decent rep. of what the blade's condition is --- honestly I believe it'll be Koto, and amazes me that it has the surface that it does. Cheers, Curtis

Thank you all!! And no, I don't take ANY offense :D :D ! You are exactly right that I'm basing it on the hamon - primarily, and sugata. BUT (HUGE "but"!!) Chris, you did make a compelling case for ubu...lord knows you've seen more than my eyes hope to before I pass from the mortal coil . I've learned a bit by researching, so not wasted effort. I ( ) can't afford a better polish for it at this point...the shirasaya and shinsa costs will be enough for the first year or two -- fortunately I REALLY (as in, insanely, no matter what) got one h@ll of a bargain on the sword itself so I feel fortunate. I guess I'll just enjoy it once it returns, and honestly even if it IS of the line, I don't think I'd sell it ----- although----- . Thanks you all for your wisdom. It increases mine every time I stick my neck out (and my helper has re-sheathed so no hada-kidi today lol. If I do learn anything new, maybe we can kick it around. Again, MANY thanks!! Curtis R.

To hedge the bet C.

Rather than add to the previous thread, I've learned and researched my mumei katana with iron "cobbled" fittings. And with help from a very brilliant man in Chiba. I believe that the blade - many of you may not be familiar with the term "Hillbilly", but this is the type of area this was sent to me from, by a long-time friend. O.K. - now to it... I believe that I've found the smith for this blade. Shinsa will tell for sure. Before judging, please visit this site & then compare... Shizu Saburo Kaneuji was one of the 10 of Masamune's original students in the Mino prefecture. I can find no other like it. http://www.nihonto.ca/shizu-3/ O-suriage for sure (as Chris picked out immediately) - beautiful hada and Hamon, very intricate and can't wait to get it back in shirasaya to do more comparison. I know that presenting a blade as one made by a student of Masamune is "darn" near an insult, but this comes from what I've been able to research. Please feel free to comment - I am fairly convinced now that the koshirae are what was available at the time - read "13th Century" - and not thinking of a blade this old, I discounted them wrongly. I **WILL** he either taking to shinsa or sending to my friend in Japan for shinsa, and believe it will pass. I guess time will tell, but it will make for interesting discussion, perhaps? Curtis R.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I found these while researching...almost an exact match to those I have but these were gilded at one time... http://www.artsconnected.org/resource/30370/fish-ornament-one-of-a-pair Curtis R.

Jean-san...that is an excellent article and the video cracked me up! --- apparently being a Cowboy involves much more than I've been led to believe!! I'd put the Beer Smilies here but we must now come up with some wine/Champagne glasses . And I think Moriyama-san is correct. Still...fish? How about some kabuto or something "warrior-ish" on my new blade? Ah well,maybe they had to tone down it's 'cool-ness'? Have great weekend gentlemen and have a, well - sparkling something? - for me! Curtis R.

First let me apologize - the following does not lend itself to dissection, sadly I was just looking through some old ref. materials and found this fuchi/kashira that seems to confirm that the Ayu fish was pretty important (or revered perhaps?) once upon a time. Since they were found as menuki on my Koto/Muromachi Tsuka and then here in gold, I'll have to research them a bit more . Thanks again everyone! Curtis

Thank you Stephen, Darin and CHris - sounds like it's still happening....very cool! Curtis R.

Hello All, I heard a while back that there will not be a Shinsa in Tampa (or anywhere else here in the US)...is this true, and if so, does anyone know the reason? Thanks in advance, Curtis R.

It IS a nice blade..I will submit to Shinsa without a doubt, so their answer should be interesting.....I can see Chris' point when holding the blade, but if o-suriage, it was very well done and at lease 2 people familiar with Nihonto agree it's o-suriage. One this IS certain, and that is that it's one of the shapest blades I've dealt with (out of 40 or 50 now) and jut beautifully balanced. It has been pondered by one friend - I will leave the name out here - that it may be the Honjo Masamune . I doubt this seriously - I've read up on the missing blade and mine seems to be missing several specifics, althought the length, etc. is correct (and it even "sort of" fits the oshigata that still exists) so I guess, who knows? lol. If so, hopefully the Shinsa team will let me know . I'll post more as I learn of itl and sincere thanks to the Board! Curtis R.

Also - thank you Jean....I will certainly look into the work of the Shimada school! Many thanks C.

Thank you gentleman, it seems that this one IS a mystery...it has not been shown to anyone, no ....it just came to me from W. VA a couple of months ago, so not sure which sword had been seen at an earlier date but not this one. It's currently with the saya-shi, who is sure the blade is Muromachi, and probably o-suriage. Either way, it neds the shirasaya :D . If I get additional from him (saya-shi), I will absolutely post it! Best, Curtis R.