Ford Hallam

While it's true that the theme is not uncommon and was used by many groups what can distinguish them (the groups) is the specific way element within the composition are treated. This fingerlike tree, for example, seems to me to be a Yasuchika group thing. I'm pretty sure many such examples could be found that illustrate this sort of connection as it's exactly this sort of detail that craftspeople pick up while training in a specific style.

Steve I think that as you've presented the case for the presently accepted dogma it does in fact illustrate exactly how uncertain all of these speculations really are. You referenced circumstantial evidence as being adequate in some cases, yet here the circumstantial is by no means firmly connected to the objects. Even that link has not been tested, it's all very tentative but presented as some sort of edifice of evidence. A great deal rests on the appearance of essentially two style of mei. In a workshop or group. Consider for a moment that many, if not most, crafts people of that period were illiterate and we my even be looking at one or more 'signers' in these production. centres. Yet first we have Akiyama saying there's 7 makers, then the next generation narrow these variants down to two. All on the basis of the mei alone, not material or workmanship really. I've always been struck by the difference in that respect in terms of workmanship and the two mei. There is no clear correlation to my craftsman's eyes. I must confess the Christian themed work seems to have escaped me, or perhaps it's not really all that obvious. But again it feels a little too contrived a way to posit the time of production. The real problem I have with the Nobuie dogma is in fact well illustrated by this exchange. As long as these theories are so valiantly, albeit in a rather wooly sort of way , defended and advanced the less likely a more reasoned reappraisal is possible. As for my use of the word scholarship in inverted commas, my point was that it lacks anything substantive to actually be scholarly about, just like theology really. Speculation is all good and well, and may indeed offer enticing possibilities and fresh insights but ultimately it does little other than to close off alternative speculations that don't fit a growing consensual dogma. Well it might be as you would like to suppose but in fact we really don't know, it might equally be just as plausable for there to have been loads of mediocre precursor pieces and here and there one or more more refined makers along the way. The idea of the singular genius being the progenitor and the subsequent decline in vigour of a group is only one art historical tale. There are many others that illustrate a very different pattern. And we really have little to go on to be sure which story is most accurate. Christian and tea themed/informed works may or may not be in evidence, these are not, imo, anywhere near a reliable an area of evidence as your argument would seem to suggest.

Nara, would be my call, specifically Yasuchika group. The boatman and distant landscape with the mountain in the distance etc. are reminiscent of a number of similar Yasuchika group pieces.

Late Higo province work. The domed kashira is a characteristic, as is, to an extent, nunome-zogan overlay decoration.

As George suggests these are not a matched set in the sense they were made as such. However there is a theme there, that's a riding crop under the helmet The horses are nice enough but they are quite generic. And the gilding on the horse and helmet differs in colour.

Interesting and eclectic collection for sure. But this.... http://varshavskycollection.com/collection/tsu-0392-2019/ no chance

And yes, I read with interest and great care Markus Sesko's excellent translations and assembly of the various bits and pieces of Nobuie "scholarship".

Well I'm still waiting to see some actual evidence of who these supposed first and second Nobuie were. Real names, dates of birth and death, where they lived...anything really. And how anyone has divined which mei, fat or thin, was the first and which the second. It seems plausible that the 'Nobu' part of the name might have been bestowed on a workshop by Oda Nobunaga....but it's just a bit of speculation without any literary evidence to support it. If it could be verified it might provide a start for dating at least some of these pieces. But we also know that at the start of the 17th century, as the Shogunate was in a headlong rush to establish itself as the legitimate government and foundation of Japan and not some upstart 'tent government' many of the accompanying warriors and suppliers to the shogunate invented spurious lineages to give themselves the socially required and appropriate ancestry. And the "Ie' part means family or house/household. As in 'the House of Goto". So it seems to me that Nobuie is a studio or workshop name. Trying then to ascribe specific pieces baring this label to specific individuals who are unknown and anonymous seems like a fun fantasy game worthy of theologians. Having thrown my kittens into the pigeon loft I would go on to say that there are some tsuba with the Nobuie mei that are wondrous, and many that are just so so, and some that are dire.

Emilio don't pay too much attention to my opinion, I'm perhaps being far too critical. The things that caught my eye and bother me; The nakago ana in the tsuba seems very long, too long really for a blade to be correctly positioned. The kozuka hitsu is oddly positioned compared the the opposing kogai hitsu. The waves seem a bit 'uncomfortable' in the way they are carved, they lack a sense of flow and rhythm. The kozuka and kogai look fairly convincing in general but the fishes are poorly shaped, their bodies look awkward. This is imo not down to poor workmanship but rather poor design layout. There are many aspects that I'd instinctively take as being signs of authenticity that here are contradicted by the issues I've mentioned. The nanako looks authentic and the dirt and verdigris is apparently correct. The gilding all looks pretty authentic too, although the kogai does look like it has a bend in it, maybe the photo is distorted. But the point is if you're happy with them and you're mounting them you should ignore my niggles, I'm being far too exacting in my assessment and without the pieces in hand probably being unfair to the work..

Sorry to be the bad cop here but while the workmanship is in many respects not too bad I don't find the overall impression of any of these pieces, apart from the fuchi kashira (but even these are a little odd to my eyes), to be convincingly Edo period and Japanese in origin.

Stephen, you mean images that are actually smaller than those already posted here?

Very tasty, object and theme

Cheers Pete, very fetching indeed.

oops, Freudian slip

Hi James The ideal procedure is perfectly outlined by my good freind, some say evil twin but they're just jealous, Guido. Start with the blade. The maker of the fittings will need to know the size and shape of the area around the transition from tang to blade to get everything just right and functional for your hands. That's if they know what they're doing. I would always prefer to have the blade in hand so to speak but with precise measurements I've made a number of sets of fittings that in the final assembly all fitted together flawlessly. So it's possible but in the final assessment it really comes down to who does the work. And I'll say this, just because they live in Japan doesn't always mean the work will be any good. Having said that, my frie nd, Otsuka Kenshin is pretty reliable and delivers a consistently authentic result. If you need an introduction via email I'll happily link you up. He's also well placed to arrange various other aspects of mounting that may be required.

As a professional metal artist working almost exclusively in this field I must say up front I have a vested interest. While it may be that in many, maybe most, cases a contemporary commissioned koshirae would be a financial loss in terms of resale this is not necessarily always the case. A tsuba I made 7 years ago was subsequently valued by Christine's in London for £35 000, a 7 fold increase in value. A number of other pieces and sets of mine have been resold and yielded a modest profits for the sellers. And by contrast its pretty easy to lose money on antique pieces depending on where the market happens to be when you need to sell. I should add here that I'm not looking for work either as I've closed my order books because I have too much work to do as it is. Personally speaking it's reassuring that there are some people who are prepared and enthusiastic about commissioning new work because without their support the craft would not survive in any form.

I don't think, historically speaking, there's any need to try and create matching sets. The concept of unified themes is not something we really see until relatively late in the Edo period and then generally on koshirae that are clearly meant to be exceptional statement pieces. More typical is an arrangement of carefully considered complimentary fittings. A bit like the accoutrements used in the tea ceremony, matching anything would be considered a big no no. So if you have a set of iron f/k with a geometric pattern, (gold or silver?) you have a starting point that's quite sombre and perhaps might feel well ordered and regulated. This could be juxtaposed by some gold menuki of flowers, for example, being soft and loose in feeling. An amusing possibility would be menuki in the form of carpenters marking out tools, as though they were used to mark out the sayagata pattern. Menuki of a scabbard and some wooden clogs, would be an amusing pun too, saya geta.

"I guess Ford and I are poles apart when it comes to boxes. No doubt he empathises with collectors of model cars etc., who never take them out of their boxes, just peer at them through the Perspex window. " Actually, I have no opinion on toy car collectors. But to try and mock me and the perfectly reasonable points I offered to this discussion is both rude and ignorant. Not to mention that the attempt to align my aesthetic inclinations with those of toy collectors is pathetically weak and utterly misses the whole point.

I would just add, for consideration, that it has been well established in numerous studies and trials that in pretty much all aesthetic experiences that context and presentation dramatically impacts and modifies our experience and effects our pleasure. So to return to my first comment it's really down to what you're hoping to get out of the study and appreciation of tosogu and how far you want to delve. What anyone decides to do is, of course, entirely their own decision and of no concern of anyone else. Having said that I also think it important to discuss not just the practical advantages of this storage system but to also point out the possible loss of enjoyment and leaning that may inadvertently follow. By way of an example think about how it feels and the emotional sensations you might become aware of when handling a CD case as opposed to a Kiri-bako. Quite different sensual realms I would suggest. With that sort of difference it seems inevitable that the subsequent appreciation of the tsuba inside, will have been conditioned to a degree by the box itself. But as we must all agree it's up to you.

Sorry Steven, but I must disagree. As I pointed out in my submission there may well be many things that one is not at first aware of when considering this whole topic. I have no doubt at all that the utilitarian sensibility was alive and well in the Edo period yet never the less certain, elegant, storage solutions were decided on and agreed as being the best....for all sorts of reasons, not just pure utility. For us, today, to simply assume we know enough to make a final, and polar opposite, decision does seem to suggest that we may have missed some thing that the original lovers of these objects did in fact feel was significant. The point has been laboured by many artistic, historical and sociological specialists...we must be cautious not to distort our view/understanding/appreciation of alien cultural artefacts by only engaging with them within a framework that we construct.

I think ultimately it comes down to this, what is the depth and breadth of the aesthetic experience you desire or hope for in collecting tsuba? If the totality of the art and craft of tosogu is something you want to access then don't scrimp, revel in every wonderful detail and aspect of the art. After all, the people who made it all that way, and best appreciated it all in the fully traditional and classical way probably have a lot to share and teach us. But if you just need to have have as many tsuba as your buck will afford then I guess that's the only real consideration. I remember a London based sword collector, telling me years ago, that he had no time for shirasaya and habaki....he was content to simply store his blades wrapped in newspaper. No doubt he still enjoyed the blades but it saddened me to think of how limited his view of them was.

Well it's very ornate and bold. "In your face' we might say over here That sort of style then suggests a late date of manufacture and more Edo/Tokyo than Kyoto or the Provinces. After that I feel as though it'd be more a matter of saying who probably didn't make it. Having said that there are somethings about it that bother me. The most obvious are the little dimples in the nanako ground, and irregularity around one of the hitsu. And while it might just be the photo quality the chiselled lines on the waves and clouds look a bit indistinct and rough in places. Given the apparent sumptuousness of the piece it's surprising that the gilding is so thin and worn.

I was just looking again at the images on my computer, and not my phone as previously, and would have to say the body of the tsuba does in fact now look to be brass/shinchu. I can see a couple of pale ochre rubbed areas that would indicate brass rather than copper.

As Stephen has already made clear Kaga work is almost the opposite sort to style to that of the Umetada group. The Umetada style, as exemplified by this sort of 'brushwork' design is inspired by the flamboyant and exuberant art that flourished in the mid to Late Momoyama period after generations of civil war.