Ford Hallam

ah! yes,... the very rare corduroy textured ground

I thought I should add that if you look at the 2 examples of Shodai Jingo tsuba I posted you will easily see the cross-hatched cutting over the dragons. This is obviously evidence that these designs were initially covered with silver overlay. The problem with silver nunome zogan is that it corrodes fairly easily. Even work produced in the Meiji period is often all but tarnished away. I think what many of us would recognise as classic Jingo would be the bold brass/shinchu type inlays, the famous eagle for instance. Next would be these silver nunome types, but as I have explained, they rarely have any silver remaining. I don't think I've ever seen a solid silver inlay on these types of tsuba though. Considering the prevailing aesthetic in Higo province at the time it would seem just a bit flashy perhaps, whereas at least with nunome the surface can be polished through a little to create a worn effect.

a tad expensive methinks glad you like the photos of the Shodai's work I posted. regards, Ford

Here you go fellas, this is what you are talking about. These 2 excellent, classic examples are taken form the recently published catalogue of Hirata and Shimizu work by Mr Ito. These are scanned images so you can get an idea of the quality of the printing, well worth the outlay if you're into Higo work. The sister volume on Nishigaki Kanshiro is equally lovely. They are both probably in need of a little tender care but the unique quality of the iron is still clearly evident. As far as I can see, the example supposedly by the first master, shown above, looks like the work of the second master. They really are very different in terms of workmanship. I saw this particular tsuba when it was auctioned in London in July 2005, at Sotheby's. Then it was classified as nidai.

Hi Nick, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The whole subject of what colour an iron tsuba was when new is hellishly difficult to answer with any sort of certainty because these things tend to "improve" with age, as long as they are well kept. Different schools are of course noted for particular colours in their patinas but we can only assume that they were as conspicuous when new as they are now. My guess would be that these differences were deliberate and are not artefacts of age. Earlier tsuba seem in general to have a wet, thin patina that doesn't obscure the metal underneath. As we get into the Edo period we see more of what I would call a russet type of patina. This is more recognisable as a purely rust based coating. These patinas do hide the real character of the metal but this may also be in response to the use of "factory" produced metal that had no really interesting characteristics. The best guide I can suggest would be good, old examples that are in good condition, not much more I can suggest I'm afraid. regards, Ford

sadly, all this means is, the seller has obviously not seen many decent tsuba...

hi Nick, sorry for not remembering, too many faces I imagine. As for the nakago, what can I say, I honestly don't recall, but if it subsequently got papers...damn, I'm good :D , I guess you owe me a beer then. regards, Ford

Hi Nick, I wonder where I offered that bit of advice, regarding Iodine, 20 odd years ago...are you sure it was me? Because I've never used it other than in relation to silver, but that's a whole other matter. I assume then, that we've met...my apologies, your memory must be better than mine. perhaps you can remind me. and you were offered some very good sources of information, the link to Jim Gilbert's site and the fairly extensive thread on "the carving path", that Brian offered. regards, Ford

I'm as bemused :? as Stephen,... you ask for advice, promptly ignore it, and then come back for approval.... I'm also somewhat amused by your metallurgical understanding. Where did you discover that the propensity of a piece of steel to rust is an indicator of it's carbon content?, or that you can tell that "the plate is well forged"? In any case, as Brian pointed out ( and you evidently didn't bother to read ) using Iodine, as opposed to almost any other liquid..., would not make the slightest difference in terms of making the steel rust other than to give it an odd smell and colour. It's use on nakago should equally be discouraged. Now that you have a coat of rust what do you intend to do to finish the patination process? Just curious as you obviously have your own ideas on this. Richard posted a link for you to some very useful material on Jim Gilbert's site too. I gather you didn't bother to take that in either. Jim advises not to try buffing the surface with synthetic materials ( ie; nylon carpet ) as they leave an unnatural, greasy finish. btw, the "bridge" you can see are actually the sails of boats. Thankfully, the tsuba you are working on is of no great significance but I have to say I think this sort of total disregard for any of the sensible advice offered is a little rash. Ford

Hello William, the green deposit is verdigris, it's a natural copper corrosion product on copper alloys. In this case it's nothing to be alarmed about, the process on these sorts of alloys ( unlike some bronzes )is very slow, and mild. I'd suggest nothing more than a delicate rub with a damp toothpick. Once you're happy with the amount you've managed to eliminate rinse it in warm water and a little fairy liquid, the clean water, dry and then warm them with a hair-dryer until too hot to hold ( wear thick cotton gloves ). Now you can very sparingly wipe on some renaissance wax with an ear bud. As they cool wipe off as much of the excess wax as you can using a clean ear bud and then gently rub to a soft sheen using clean kitchen paper towel. Hope that's of some help. regards, Ford

Sorry Milt, I don't have an image showing the reverse. In my opinion this is another piece that seems to me to be made by a non-professional tsuba maker. An amateur work, and I'd go as far to suggest very much later than Meiji. Admittedly, this is a very ambitious work. Whoever made it, and I think almost certainly Japanese, put a lot of time and effort into it. Some of the "give-aways" to my eyes, have been noted already. The odd shaped seppa-dai, clearly never mounted on a sword, and those very odd "tagane mei" around the seki gane strike me as completely contrived. The droplets of water around the crests of the waves are done in gold...the convention is silver, and in this case I get the impression our maker really got carried away with the dot inlay technique...it looks as though the horses are being shampooed . That horses face is also just too funny for words...perhaps it got soap in it's eyes The weird curve at the end of the sword bothers me more that the fact that it goes onto the seppa-dai. Is it conceivable that someone who's livelihood revolved around swords could make such a bad drawing of a blade? and why have such a focal point of the little warrior disappear like that? Low level makers typically used design books, they didn't try to design their own work at all. Clearly this is not designed by an accomplished artist nor made by a less skilful craftsman ( who would have used a professionally drawn design ) so who are we left with...and when could that person have been working? I keep finding that the answer in my mind is, an amateur working sometime post Taisho period, long past the time when "real" tsuba makers were still producing their wares, however "Meiji-fied" they might have been. :lol: This tsuba does present quite a challenge in terms of being absolute about it's origin, I'll admit, but as you'll have guessed by now, I am trying to develop a "theory" about a particular group of tsuba that seem to me to be newcomers to the collecting scene. I have not returned to the "Shigenori" tsuba yet, I will do so in a day or two, there I will try and add some more to my general premise. I'll also add another example of this "modan group" ( borrowing Milt's classification ). and thanks for taking the time to read my "crazy ideas", regards, Ford

hmmm....the Good Doctor is closest...getting warmer8) as Brian suggests, first impressions can be deceiving. Is this really as good as it first appears?

I was wondering if the membership here might have some thoughts about this tsuba. Any and all opinions welcome thanks, Ford and it's not one of mine either

I think it might be "horu"; to carve/carved ( by )

Hi Piers, don't know if it will make much difference but I'm wondering at your description of the "mei" on your Jumyo tsuba. It is hard to be absolute with seeing clearer images but I get the impression that the inscription is actually done in nunome-zogan, as is the gold outline to the hitsu-ana. I'd also guess that the gold, both mei and decoration, is a later addition. regards, Ford

This mei seems weak, and uncertain, to me. Kiyomaro was neither, with regard to his swords. Personally, however, he had some problems.... lack of belief in his own work wasn't one of them.

Ok...I give up, where have you hidden the photo of your Higo tsuba? :?

Seems to me there is a gap in the market here. The online community could somehow organise a listing site similar to ebay that was vetted and dealt only with legitimate items. Surely it can't be that difficult to spread the word if everyone pulled together for a common good. A specialist auction site for specialist items...why not. In my experience; if you get chucked out of one club you can always go and make a newer, better one, where you get to make the rules regards, Ford thinking up a clever name for it would be fun at least :D

the mei appears to have been made in the same manner as those on sword tangs; ie; the metal is displaced, rather than cut away which would be usual for tsuba. This can be seen by the slightly raised edge to some of the strokes. The workmanship is even more clear to me now and my initial suspicion is confirmed. I will post an image of a very interesting tsuba tomorrow, that shares many of this piece's traits. Regards, Ford

Hi Patrick, I assume you're referring to; orchid, chrysanthemum, bamboo and plum blossom. Natsuo did a few such groupings, as did Goto Ichijo. have you browsed the Boston museum of fine art online collection?

Personally, I think it would be a mistake to concentrate too closely on the mei. Of all the aspects that this piece presents, the signature would be the "easiest" to reproduce, especially if you know that is what people will be most concerned about. Art history is littered with this lesson. Ultimately though, all fakes that are uncovered are revealed by their awkward synthesis of stylistic traits and the makers own cultural/historical background subconsciously being expressed. The pose of the horse is one such "mistake" imo. regards, Ford

I think, what this, very detailed, discussion has established without any doubt is; most sword swingers know diddly squat about metallurgy, nor indeed, Japanese swords. Most dojo dwellers gain their "expertise" from DVD's and the sempai/kohai relationship is not very conducive to critical thinking , is it? In any case, the so called, "experience" of part time hobbyists is hardly relevant when compared to 1000 years of tradition based on the empirical, life and death, judgements of professional fighting men. Regards, Ford my tongue is sharper than my sword, but only just

Sorry to be an awkward so and so but I have my reservations too. I find myself agreeing with Ludolf, To be fair, it is quite convincing on a number of points but fails when taken as a whole. I'll wait to see what else is suggested before elaborating on my opinion. The mei looks pretty good though....clever! and Michael, it may well be hand carved iron, but how do you "know" it is from the Edo period ?

Hi Adrian, my apologies, I only became aware of this post when Brian mentioned it to me a day ago, sorry. I've see if i can post some suitable images of the mei but you will find a very reliable article on the blade, and 2 others, and oshigata, on the Token society of Great Britain's website. You'll find the link is in the clubs/societies links section at the top of this page. Good luck, regards, Ford

Hi Milt, it's always difficult to be absolutely certain about when analysing something like this from a photo...but here goes. Unless you'd be good enough to send it to me, I could fix that cut while I was at it The seppa-dai area is very clearly copper, even shakudo that has lost it's original patina does not attain this sort of colour naturally. The chances of the core plate being shakudo are in my opinion very unlikely. It would be a complete waste of an expensive material which would seem to go completely against the ethos of the craftsman's tradition. Sort of an early "truth to materials" philosophy. The fact that the hitsu-ana appear black could indicate that those openings are lined though, or the copper has been treated with a specific, atypical, colouring solution. The plate itself would have been quite well carved, up until the final detailing probably. Then a thin sheet of gold, in this case possibly 22ct ( not much thicker than a sheet of 100gram A4 paper ) would be gently worked onto the contours of the plate. It would then be fused to the copper ground, which is not a particularly complicated process. The refining of the carving and the engraved details is then carried out. The rims is, as you suggest, an applied band of thicker gold. The seam is not difficult to hide if it was fused, or soldered. It is also not a particularly difficult thing to make a seamless band to fit around the mimi. Just think of a raised bowl, at some point the sides are vertical and it is a simple matter to take a suitable slice off a shape like that, and there you have a ring with no join line. The band that makes up the rim is worked until it is a very tight fit to the outer shape, it is pressed into position, with a little overlap on each side, and then gently burnished in by alternating the work on each side. Does that make sense? The dark line, in the cut, on the rim may be due to any number of contaminants but personally I don't think shakudo is a likelihood for reasons I mentioned earlier. Hope this helps a little, Best regards, Ford btw, if anyone is interested, you can see a photo essay of a series of images, quite close up, showing true hon-zogan in the tutorials section of our forum. Here's a linkhttp://followingtheironbrush.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=195. It may provide an easy visual explanation of the process.