Ford Hallam

Hi Brian, it's not utter crap in terms of general metalwork, after all it does take quite a bit of skill to get to even this standard....but on a Japanese sword it simply does not pass even at the lowest level. My feeling is that this is the work of a deliberate faker. An amateur horimono carver would, I think, at least make some effort to do it right. His lack of skill would be the give-away. In this case it's very clear that time was the deciding factor in how far the finishing was taken. That image you've posted is a great example for us all to study to try and understand the difference between this sort of fake and the real thing.

There is at least something of value to be gained form the images of the horimono though. The evidence of the chisel marks in the outline of the dragon is a very reliable give-away that this is a very recent addition. The authentic style of carving, and finishing, will have no trace of the chisel marks. This is not Kata-kiri bori The sloping inner face of the outline should be polished and burnished smooth...but that takes a long, long time. The dragon is also just very poorly drawn and shaped in general. It all seems very basic. So this particular horimono is an excellent example of what a carving in a blade should not look like. I make this comment because it seems to me that we are seeing more of this sort of thing ( carvings and mei being added ) and they may easily fool the unwary. Ford never the less, I won't be surprised to see this sell for 10's of thousands of dollars

In my limited experience of dealing with Aoi-art ( I've only bought 2 swords from them ) the price listed on their site is all inclusive of insurance and shipping.

Personally...., I read these sorts of claims, with no regard to who is making them, in the same way as I regard all advertising. Why take the word and opinion of the person, or that of their assistants, who wants your money? The danger here is obvious. I think the old maxim; " let the buyer beware" , is no where more appropriate than on on-line auction sites like ebay. As another old saying goes; " a fool and his money are soon parted" ...and one from my own trade, from the middle ages, "if you know nothing of jewellery, at least know your jeweller." ...so the question is, who are we trying to protect here?....the uneducated, who are out of their depth and hoping for a treasure? perhaps those costly mistakes are appropriate? I don't believe that there are wondrous deals to be had in this way, unless by luck or by buying vast quantities of dross, in which case neither is really a great deal. From what I see mediocre items are frequently oversold/bought by over-enthusiastic buyers who are actually out of touch with the reality of the market. How's that for a bit of a stir? regards, Ford p.s. it looks, to me Brian, as though you're biased toward the informed buyer. No one is unbiased if they have an interest...it's oxymoronic

It's funny how things tend to niggle away in your mind until something eventually pops up. I've found another kozuka, with the same 5 symbols, in the Carlo Monzino sale catalogue. Lot no: 52. Described as Kaga work, 18th cent. The motif's described as "Ho-gaku", the 5 sacred mountains of Taoism. The rest was merely a matter of finding some verification of that. Here's the link to the evidence. At least we now know what they are... Ford

Hi Goldy...bugger ...and I thought I was being subtle it's not that I've got anything against tameshigiri, it's just that I love bamboo :D I'm not a big fan of "Lord of the Rings" re-enactment either ( how's that for an oxymoron? : ) regards, Ford

Hey, Jean, that example which you linked to would seem to a the perfect choice for the bamboo chopping branch ( pardon the pun ) of the sword world . Finally, an authentic, traditional, bamboo cutter...we should let the Shinkendo practitioners know . fwiw; I'm converted to the gardening tool thesis also, now. Regards, Ford

This actually looks real to me. I don't think we should regard it as being related to Nihonto at all though. It would appear to be some more utilitarian sort of tool. Possibly very late Edo period but I reckon more likely Meiji. My instinct suggests a hunters knife. The fittings remind me of German hunting knives and swords too... just my 2 yens worth

...and I thought it was a bar code ...sorry, befuddled head as a result of flu

Hey, Stephen...2.8 cm is more than an inch. An Inch is about 2.5cm . It still surprises me that you colonials insist on sticking with the Imperial measures Anne, I'll send you my postal address via pm ...and may I say, an excellent and wise decision on your part.

Hi Anne, thanks for the additional info. That really is quite a deep sori, and as Grey pointed out, seemingly uncharacteristic of the period. To be honest I don't know what to to make of that measurement , everything else seems to appear to be as one would expect. The mei certainly looks correct to me so ultimately I would suggest the decision lies in the hands of an experienced appraiser/polisher, quite literally; in hand. As for what to do next with it, I feel confidant that everyone here will agree that the best course of action would be to send it to me for safe keeping, in perpetua : ...I'll even send you photo's each year on it's birthday, so you can rest assure it's being cared for in a loving home regards, Ford

Hi Grey, I also noticed the strong sori. The sori on the sword that I posted the oshigata of is 16.7mm so I'd imagine that the Mishina group was not always representative of the classic Kanbun Shinto sori, not that 16mm is particularly deep. Anne, would it be possible to measure the sori on your sword? This is the distance from centre of the curve of the blade to an imaginary line drawn from the tip to mune machi, the notch at the start of the tang. regards, Ford

Anne, I've just realised, I posted the oshigata of the hamon and boshi with the mei, at the start of this thread. I thought I got a glimpse of the same outline ( of the boshi ) in one of the images you posted of the kissaki, in the smaller images actually. In any case, at this stage I would suggest that the sword deserves the "full treatment", ie, proper polish, new shrasaya, ( the habaki looks to be in perfect condition ) and submission for authentication. My money would be on it getting more than just hozon. Any thoughts on that, fella's? About the confusion regarding mineral oil, there are, more crude mineral oils that would in fact be less desirable to use as they could stain the steel, but the sort of refined, delicate stuff we're advising using, and what you in fact obtained, is quite mild. A few drops of clove oil are sometimes added to provide a pleasant scent.. and possibly a bit of nostalgia for old timers. Regards, Ford

Hi Todd, I get a sense that you feel the opinion expressed here may be out of line, this being challenged by the final selling price. With all things like this the final judgement comes down to the individual. The value of something is only maintained when we all agree to that "perceived" value. As such, my response to this result is that I don't agree with the apparent value expressed here. I wouldn't pay a 10th of that price for this particular item. This is my own opinion and is irrelevant to the overall imagining of the value of the sword. The point is; will this sword sustain this assessment in the future. I don't believe it can. *Edited by Admin* regards, Ford

Hi Anne, sorry not much more to be seen In the larger images of the boshi. I'll upload an oshigata when I get a chance so you can see how it compares yourself. One little trick to help show up the hamon / boshi is to run a film of lighter fluid over the metal, then look along the blade while pointing it towards a light source. Obviously not a naked flame I also don't think a fine mineral oil will do the blade any harm. Modern sword oils are essentially just that. I'd avoid machine or car oil though. The sort of stuff intended for domestic sewing machines is absolutely fine. Don't get the oil on the tang. regards, Ford

Hi Fella's; anyone heard of this maker before; Higo no kami Sadakoma here's a link it's new one on me. Interesting sugata and kissaki, and what looks like a carved integral saya...wierd cheers, Ford

Hi Anne, this is of course the bit we've all been waiting for...the heart of the matter. From what I can make out it all seems to match. The hamon is particularly interesting and I'd guess it is full of activity. The grain looks to be very well forged and tight, no obvious flaws I can see. Even what I can make out of the boshi would seem correct. All in all it's in pretty good condition...well done Granddad. This sword should make a perfect recovery, all it needs is a bit of tlc. regards, Ford

Hi Danny, your tsuba is still antique. I think the general consensus is right at the end of the Edo period, late 1800's. It's possible that it's Meiji period but it would be very difficult to be so certain. The basic metal is copper that I suspect it has not been very well refined. We tend to assess the relative purity of copper, and thereby its age, and possible cost relative to that period, by judging the colour of the patina. Again, not an exact science but your's is typical of the period we've arrived at. Purer copper had been available for at least 200 years by then so the use of a less well refined material must be regarded as an economic decision. The million dollar question as to what it's worth is tricky...the easy answer would be; exactly what you can sell it for but I'd imagine about $100 ~ $150 Thanks for sharing this with us, I think we enjoyed it regards, Ford

Hi John, I think this discussion is an excellent example of the value of this sort of on-line exchange. and don't be too concerned about us agreeing on things like this too often...I'm bound to come up with some or other outrageous "theory" some time soon Seriously though, I enjoyed the way the evidence was pieced together , it illustrates well the value of open minded, collaborative thinking. regards, Ford

and I was just thinking you were using the ancient Hebrew spelling, ie; no vowels you scholar you

what with?...your keyboard ?

ouch! I can only wonder how they get the rubber bands on the singers testicles and I'd never have guessed that you were such a romantic, Guido

I think by comparing the front and back, side by side like that, Martin, it is clear from the various minor marks that are the same that the 2 faces, front and back are stamped from the same die. John, I think that the rim that holds it all together is visible in the area I've circled below. It looks to me like a thin sheet that's been rubbed over. I've just noticed that the corner on the right hand upper example is actually split, this would seem to confirm that the rim is in fact a fukurin. and not particularly well put together either.

it's over $10 000 now...who'd a thunk it

Hi Richard, I'm not sure I would agree with you as to it being all that old. The nakago ana looks to be virtually untouched. Considering that it is such a soft metal I'd expect some sort of wear after 400 years. The fact that the design is almost identical on each side strikes me as being odd too. I'd have thought that considering the relative complexity of the work, and design, that the back would be conceived in it's own right and not just be a repeat of the front. Taking the colour of the metal into account also, I suggest that this is a very late Edo piece. Regards, Ford