Geraint

Knew I'd seen it somewhere: Stone's Glossary, Fig. 872. Called, unsurprisingly, yumi yari. Another illustration in R & P Knutsen, "Japanese Spears" Fig. 30 i which is probably the same one. This one shouldered so that the loop of the bow string could still fit over it and function, presumably the tension of the string kept the yari in place.

Fukuro yari for the end of a yumi?

I had resisted that temptation Malcolm but I was pondering the differences between a craft activity and the sort of instinctive response that this sort of training produces. I know a little about the craft end of this but not so much about the military aspects of muscle memory. In craft their is a continuous feedback process going on which involves many sense at once as the worker adjusts by infinitesimal amounts what the next in a series of actions may be. Plannishing a piece of hollow ware the sight, sound and feel of each hammer blow in a series alters the next subtly, in cabinet work the same applies when planing for example. To what degree is this feedback present in swordsmanship or the more contemporary military arts? I have always thought of them as useful in one time actions. Anyone?

Hi Joe. Lots to think about in your post. I'm not a swordsman so forgive any misunderstandings. It is certainly true that the best way of learning something is to teach it. It's also true that for a primarily physical skill description is much less efficient than demonstration and practice. I've never met anyone who learnt to ride a bike by reading the manual. Another feature of this is that people do learn and think in different ways, your student who seems to take a while to grasp things while others have moved on may be an example of this. I am trying to see what this suggests about artists and their development. I think it is true to say that our Western idea of talent or having the knack is a smokescreen. Just been reading a book whose key message is that if you put in the hours you will get the results in any field of endeavor. We say that someone has a talent for art as if it is a gift from the gods whereas what we probably find is that they have spent hours and hours working on this talent. I think I am suggesting that an artist who made progress in their work by teaching others might think of themselves as a teacher rather than an artist. Perhaps the starting point of this thread helps here, stealing the skill means that the master is simply practicing their craft to the best of their ability. If you want to master it you had better copy everything including the dedication. This sort of determination is exemplified by Kunihira Kawachi in his delightful book; "The Art of the Japanese Sword". He says, quite matter of factly, "I used to be left handed. But all the tools of my trade are made for right handed people. So I forced myself to become right handed." Lots more to think about.

Interesting thought, Chris. One of the difficult things to teach in craft is what to focus your perceptions on. Sight, sound, feel, smell, taste; all can tell you when something is going well or not So in the case of Sadahito, if it doesn't sound right then it isn't right. These are the things that our Western perspective does not generally take into account. I have also come across some very poetic descriptions about the right colour of the steel during forging and yakiire, one of the beauties of steel is that so much information is contained in the colour of the metal, from the selection of the right type of tamahagane to the control of the forging process. Similarly the polishing process relies on the selection of the correct stone, feel, sound and maybe even smell provide clues about what is and isn't right. Fascinating stuff and adds to the wonder of our subject, don't you think?

Ah, Malcolm, what a question! I am sure that Ford will have some thoughts to offer from the privileged position of having both a Western apprenticeship and a Japanese experience. In the meantime, here is a link to some more detailed thinking; http://designfizzle.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/47/ Points to ponder: Japanese, and indeed all other swordsmiths learned to manipulate the properties of steel empirically, a staggering achievement the more you think about it. Much of what they knew was what Polyani calls tacit knowledge, I know how to do it but I can't explain it. Put it this way, if I read a book on sword forging I can say that I know how to forge a sword, right up to the point where someone gives me a piece of tamahagane and a hammer, then it emerges that I know almost nothing of value. A fairly modern western orthodoxy in the arts has been that skill/craft is a distraction and that there is no need to spend time learning in this way because you can "pick it up" from a book when you need it. Underscored by Grayson Perry, (if you don't know he will be easy to find), who says that he causes more trouble by placing a finely crafted pot in an art gallery than he does by turning up in a dress. We want to distinguish between art and craft for all sorts of reasons, Japanese aesthetics don't do this in the same way. So much more to say but I will confine myself to this for the moment. Let's hope that others join the debate.

Thanks Jean, had a coffee before replying and didn't refresh the page. Nice to see another Lensman reader by the way.

Looking good Brian. Very surprised to see your blade described as unokubi zukuri though. (Already covered I see, posts crossing.) No one has answered your question about the value in relation to the mon. I think unless you have a documented connection with a daimyo family then the use of a mon is not significant, unless the koshirae is of startlingly high quality. (Again, already covered, ah well!) Enjoy!

Touche! Just goes to show how similar they are. Either that or eyesight failing.

I'm sure you have heard the one about impulsive samurai tying the sword to the saya with a piece of paper string...............? Guessing as I am sure you can tell.

Brian, I think you are right in this regard, the images of the overall view of the first two swords in their shirasaya are identical; it's the same picture. Case of image confusion on the part of the seller I suppose. Cheers

No problem, Jean.

http://www.yamabushiantiques.com/KABUTO28.htm Same one?

Hi Alex. Tosogu = collective noun for sword fittings. Jean was suggesting that they were the ones to help you. The translation is given on the Ebay description, the tsuba is to my eye nice and of course it has papers so you can have some confidence. The question is, do you like it? Enough to spend money on? If the answer to those two questions is, "Yes!" then away you go. You might also find something to your taste here, http://www.silk-road.us/iron.html Have fun!

Would love to say I had one but... illustrated in R and P Knutsen, Fig 29, "An unusual tsukushi - uekama - jumonji- yari. Another in Bottomely and Hopson, page 148. Not a modern make up or a later conversion but a nice piece. Cheers

Hi All. The images below are of two tsuba, one is copper, 75mm x 68mm x 7 at the mimi. The plate bears a stamped pattern, the single hitsu ana is plugged with shakudo and the applied rim is roped. The other face is identical but bears heavy punch marks to adjust the nakago ana. The second is solid, blue - black shakudo, much better in hand than in the image, 72mm x 68mm x 5mm, slight fullness near the nakago ana tapering just a littel towards the mimi, the surface worked with very regular and well formed grooves, the mimi similarly decorated with grooves running around the circumference. I have come across a similar example for tsuba 1 but nothing like tsuba 2. Both are on swords with complimentary koshirae. I would love to know your thoughts on these. Many thanks.

Couldn't agree more that the maker should take his bow but not so sure about the bending of the staves. Looking at the ones either side of the ones with the kanji the grain reversal would indicate the cutting from solid rather than a bend , don't you think? Imagine a piece of timber with a valley carved into it at that point, pretty much what we are seeing here I think. Just goes to show we can manage to create a debate about almost anything here! Cheers

Ah Brian, I feel your pain. My father once said to me that I had excellent taste but that it was a pity that I would be unlikely ever to have the means to support it. I can understand why you liked this one so much.

Well Brian, I think it is a nice sword and you will be able to learn a lot by studying it. Even if the school does not rank very high the blade looks very nice and I am sure you will enjoy it. All the best.

And just to pour oil on troubled waters or fat on the fire, Red Cross Catalogue, number 884. "Sano. The founder, Naoyoshi, was a Yanagawa pupil, the following pieces however have been selected to show the style of sumizogan on gold under nanako which originated with that school. (884 being illustrated).......the nanako being punched all over the surface after inlaying the gold." That nanako is capable of being carried out over an inlayed surface is not a problem, the key or undercutting of the inlay being deeper than the nanako. Weather this is the technique applied to the kodzuka that started the discussion is a moot point. Some years ago Ford showed me a small piece of nunome zogan that was so fine it resembled morning mist so I suppose the idea of punching foil over a shakudo base is possible but certainly the hard way to do the job. I really must get a hobby, no, wait this is a hobby!

For what it's worth, "Among the many Yanagawa offshoots the most famous are the Sano (inlay covered with nanako giving the effect of brocade." Robinson.

Franco, Lee. Try the link I gave, go to full screen on the kodzuka and zoom in. I think you will see the irregularity you are looking for. Given fine nanako you would achieve the same effect as a low resolution digital image. I have seen it referred to as an attempt to create the impression of brocade as Ian says. Logical way to do it would be inlay first, honzogan I suspect and then nanako. The tsuba I was thinking of is in Robinson, "Arts of the Japanese Sword", plate 4. A tsuba with an inlaid butterfly given this treatment, signed, Wada Isshin Masatatsu according to the caption.

And without you guys and the NMB how many of us would have made the same mistake, only to discover much later that we had been fooled. Discovery learning is a powerful tool, but for those of us who have learned from this thread, a big Thank You! That goes for those who answered the questions and those who asked.

Hi Ron. Nice kodzuka and a technique that does crop up from time to time. Have a look at the ground on the kodzuka on this one; http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/837 ... ed+tanto+/ I have a feeling that I have seen a tsuba with a similar technique in the collection of the V and A museum, I'll see if I can find it.

Great results Matt, I would never have thought it possible. Just an idea, rather than emery paper have you tried a fibreglass pen? Roy swears by it. Principle being that it gets at the rust but not the base metal.