Lingonberry

In hindsight, saying the newer swords handle like "meat cleavers" wasn't the best choice of words. I wonder what is is about the wider blades cutting more easily. This is probably a terrible analogy, but I'm imagining the difference between something like a hacksaw and a regular hand saw. The hacksaw has a narrower blade which allows the user to cut curves and so on whereas the hand saw is fairly wide and can only cut in a straight line (more or less). The wide hand saw blade prevents it from turning or changing the "angle of attack" while cutting. I imagine a wider sword would similarly resist turning during the cut and make it a bit easier to keep the cut nice and straight, thus making the cut in general a bit easier. Of course, I've never actually done tameshigiri so I could be dead wrong. In general, though, I imagine they are also much better able to resist the shock or impact of hitting something than an older blade with a narrower monouchi.

I think I read somewhere that many gentaito tend to have a heavy "meat cleaver" feel to them. I believe it was in a thread or website discussing the use of nihonto for tameshigiri. Someone was saying it is better to stick with WW2 at the absolute oldest blade one would want to use for cutting but with the caveat that they tend to be rather blade heavy and feel like meat cleavers compared to some older swords.

This might help a bit. http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/O-suriage.html and http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/kissaki.html#FUMBARI I think the short version is to check and see if the hamon ends after the machi or keeps going and to check the shape of the funbari, assuming it's still there.

Amazon has: "The Samurai Sword: A Handbook" John M. Yumoto http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Sword-Han ... urai+sword "Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords: A Collector's Guide" Nobuo Nakahara http://www.amazon.com/Facts-Fundamental ... pd_sim_b_3 "The Connoissuers Book of Japanese Swords" Kokan Nagayama http://www.amazon.com/The-Connoisseurs- ... pd_sim_b_2 "The Japanese Sword" Kanzan Sato http://www.amazon.com/The-Japanese-Swor ... pd_sim_b_1 "The Art of the Japanese Sword" Kawachi Kunihira http://www.amazon.com/Art-Japanese-Swor ... pd_sim_b_6 "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" Leon and Hiroko Kapp, Yoshindo Yoshihara http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Japanese-Sw ... d_sim_b_11 "The Art of Japanese Sword Polishing" Takaiwa, Yoshihara, and Kapp(s) http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Japanese- ... pd_sim_b_9 I think most of these are in the recommended reading for beginners. By the time you're done with these you should already have enough knowledge about where to find the more in-depth books.

Kunitaro-san, The gentleman in question was an American who claimed to have bought the sword from a WWII veteran at a gun show for a few hundred dollars. It was supposedly a valuable family sword that a Naval officer brought to war. The man who gave the seminar said the sword was in very bad condition so he sent it to a togishi in California to have it restored. He claimed it was the togishi told him that it was rougly 700 years old and worth $30,000. Frankly, I think this guy was stretching the truth a little...

I encountered an individual who gave a seminar at an anime convention about how to purchase a good sword (not really my kind of scene but I went because many friends of mine go.) This "expert" claimed to use a 700 year old blade worth $30,000 for tameshigiri, claiming that no nihonto were made as art objects and that he was "honoring" the sword by using it for it's intended purpose. He was a very interesting character to put it politely... I'm not very familiar with martial arts but I was wondering... the guy who gave the seminar claimed that using a sword for cutting practice claimed that doing so did no harm to the blade in any way. I've seen pictures of iaito which appear to be scuffed and scratched and, presumably, the blade would get duller with each use. Is it not safe to say that using a nihonto damages it? The reason I ask is because I'd like facts to use in any future discussions on this topic. In other words, I'd like to make an informed and polite argument in favor of using shinken, shinsakuto, etc... instead of old nihonto for cutting practice.

Looks iffy to me. I can't really say why, but it does. Something about the general shape and the writing style of the kanji in the mei just seem odd to me. The hamon looks too "bright" as well. I could be entirely wrong, though. Also, I think this should go in the ebay/online auction section.

Thank you! I was going nuts with the "maru" kanji, thinking the 3rd stroke was not correct for 丸 (I thought it was intersecting the wrong stroke to be "maru"). I'm quite keen to see this in person now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it somewhat uncommon for swords to have nicknames?

Hello all, A friend of mine was browsing through an estate auction website looking for old guns and came across this sword. He asked me for help figuring out as much as I could about it. As far as I can see its a shinto blade (fairly straight, wide hamon that nearly reaches the shinogi). I can't really read the mei, though, and I don't have a copy of Hawley's or Fujishiro's books. These pictures are the best of the bunch, sadly, so I ask that you do the best that you can with what I can provide. The other pictures were all blurry, overall shots that pretty much say "yup, its a sword alright." It does appear to have some surface corrosion/rust but nothing serious. We'll know more when we see it in person on the day of the auction. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

That is a pretty good deal on airfare! I'll admit that I'm more than a little bit jealous... I've never been to any shops in Osaka but I do remember seeing a forum member asking if anyone has ever bought from a shop in Osaka called "Ryujin" or similar. http://www.osaka-ryujindo.jp/ By the way, if you have a free day when you're in Osaka there is a tiny little okonomiyaki place near the kandai-mae station (Hankyu line) called "Cabbage House" that I highly recommend. It's a hole-in-the-wall kind of place but its REALLY good (and cheap!).

I'm not too sure I see a connection between wanting to make a profit and knowing about a hagire... In other words: How does the fact that he sold you the sword for more than he paid for it prove he was aware of the hagire and/or dishonest? Is it not possible that he thought he could use the extra cash to buy a more expensive sword he had his eye on? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck or anything, just saying that there is a chance he honestly wasn't aware of the issue. Even if he was, though, would it matter? You would have bought the sword from the original seller, hagire and all, had the other guy not bought it first. I think the real issue isn't with the other bidder but the seller (again, assuming that he didn't know about the hagire beforehand).

I'd say you broadened your subject a bit there. I'm not too sure you'll find any academic sources that specifically deal with how the West or Western powers influenced the Samurai but you may want to look for books dealing with the Boshin War and how the Satsuma, Tosa, and Choshu clans were equipped with modern Western weapons and military advisors. Depending on the historical scope you may also want to touch on the introduction of matchlocks(?) to Japan during the Sengoku Jidai and how some Daimyo bought European canon for castle seiges. I believe the Shogunate also attempted to hire a Portuguese ship to bombard a castle held by Christian rebels in the early 1600's. I don't know of any specific books you could use but hopefully this gave you some help as to where to start looking.

I went back and spoke with them today. I gave them the bad news about the fukure and they were understandably disappointed. I mentioned that all 3 of the swords they had could use a good polish (even if one of them might as well be dead) but they said they'd rather let the buyer take care of that since they have no idea how to go about the process. That sounds like an excuse to me but it's understandable since they're a gun store, not a sword dealer, after all. In other news, they took my contact info so they could ask me to come in and help them identify any swords they may get in the future so at least I get the opportunity to study swords first hand, even if I don't have anyone more experienced to tell me what it is I'm looking at... Anyway, thanks for all your help!

Dang, that's a real shame. It's always sad to see a sword with a fatal flaw I've read somewhere though that sometimes on swords that would otherwise have been very nice the fukure will be cleaned out and filled with a laquer/laminate by the polisher during the restoration process. I'm guessing this one doesn't warrant that procedure but I might try and convince the sword to send it to a polisher for a proper evaluation anyway. It's worth a shot... Would the store still be able to sell the sword at a greatly reduced cost, or would they more or less have to give it away?

That might just be the lighting. The nakago wasn't that shiny in person, although it does appear it's WWII fittings scratched up the edges of the nakago. As for the fukure, does it seem worth looking into whether it can be restored? It seems pretty deep... Thanks for the help guys!

I popped into a local gunstore today that I know occasionally gets nihonto. They had 3 genuine nihonto amid the machine made blades, one katana in WWII mounts and two wakizashi. Aside from know that they swords are handmade the gunstore employees (who are usually extremely knowledgeable) had no idea what two of the three swords were so I offered to take pictures and get some help from more experienced people. Sadly, all 3 swords need polishing to some degree. The katana has a rather unsightly flaw near the kissaki I took pictures with my cell-phone of the mei of the two swords in question. From what I can tell they both read Bishu Osafune but I can't quite make out the other Kanji. Here is a link to the pictures http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/ ... to%20Help/ And before anyone says anything let me make it clear that I have no intention of purchasing these. I'm voluntarily helping the gun store as I have a good relationship with them. PS: Yes, that's a luger in one of the pictures (I think). There was a fully registered, fully functioning STG-44 on the other side of the counter. "Only" $30,000!

I thought it might just be the lighting in the one picture (with the bright reflection) but there was another picture in which the hamon appeared the same as in the first picture which is why I asked. As for why I didn't ask for pictures... I never said I was interested in buying it and I feel that it would be a bit rude to ask for more pictures and getting the guy's hope up just to satisfy my own curiosity.

I don't think this one is papered though. I believe he mistook the receipts from Japan Sword Co.'s restoration as well as the Police Registration number for "papers." To be honest, I'm not even sure he knows what "papers" are. Even then I've heard that since the 1970's people have been making fake NBTHK/NTHK papers complete with forged signatures. I remember seeing an obvious Chinese fake hanging in a frame (yes, really) in a cutlery store in Arkansas, complete with fake papers. It was on the wall behind the counter and didn't have any for sale sign so I assumed they weren't trying to sell it. With that in mind I didn't really have the heart to tell them it was a fake because they seemed so proud of it... so long as they don't try to sell it there is no harm in letting them live the fantasy since the money was already spent and lost.

I wasn't actually going to place a bid. I just wanted to see an example of nioi-gire because I've only ever seen drawings/diagrams so far. Frankly, I don't intend to ever buy anything expensive on ebay EVER. Still fun to poke around on it though.

I know it's a bit hard to tell from these pics, but is it just me or does this naginata seem to have nioi-gire (break in the Hamon) smack in the middle of the blade? It seems like the hamon just kinda... stops... once it reaches the part of the blade where the camera flash obscures everything and then it slowly comes back a bit a few inches after that... http://www.ebay.com/itm/180832009317?_t ... 500wt_1413

So to condense the advice in this thread so far: 1. Don't consider buying anything until you're confident in your ability to pick out a good quality item by yourself (but you should still seek assistance/advice from more experienced collectors whenever possible) 2. There is no such thing as a "beginners" sword, and if you see one labeled as such it might not be too great a quality (even though the price might be fair for what it is) 3. Buy the best item you can reasonably afford, but make sure you buy from a trusted source and verify your opinions with the opinions of your mentors whenever possible before committing. 4. Stay away from "gems in the rough," i.e. items in need of restoration, as the restored item may not have been worth the cost of purchase + restoration (I don't think I saw this mentioned in this thread, but I feel that it was implied a little bit) 5. Try to avoid buying anything online unless you have seen it in person at least once. Pictures may not be accurate and issues may not be disclosed on the website. Also, you might see something "wrong" (either a flaw or something you don't personally like) once you get the item in person which the dealer didn't see or disclose. Even with inspection periods you'll still lose precious funds on shipping/insurance. 6. Get a really well paying job! :lol:

Perhaps I should clarify: I'm not looking for a first sword. I already have a rather splendid Tsutsui Kiyokane katana from 1944. I don't mean to be rude, defensive, or impertinent; I just wanted to clarify my position as I feel that I may have been misunderstood. I've been to two sword shows before, but they were a few years ago. My first was in San Antonio, Tx, where I got the Kiyokane. The second was the Chicago show during my freshman year at college. When studying abroad in Osaka for two years I visited a few sword shops when I visited Tokyo. I've been reading books, looking at pictures, and occasionally pestering merchants with emails for nearly 9 years now. I was also a member of the JSSUS for a few years but I quit for some reason. I think it might have been because there were issues with the newsletters' publishing or the website going down/changing or something. I'm not saying that I'm a seasoned expert -I know I still have a lot to learn- but I don't consider myself to be a complete newby. I still consider myself a beginner but I know enough not to buy Chinese fakes on ebay, how to discern a machine made blade from a handmade one (unless it's a fake specifically meant to imitate a real one), how to spot acid etched hamon, etc... What I'm really asking is: about how nice of a sword should a beginner aim for as a first (or second, in my case) item without getting in over their heads as far as maintenance/appreciation? From what I gather from the replies in this thread is that there is no real good answer to that question as it depends on a number of factors. Thank you everyone for your time and input!

I've been doing that for nearly 10 years Paul. I have a spiral notebook full of pictures of swords and a folder on my computer that is similarly filled with pictures. My two all-time favorites are a noboshige katana that was on ikkyudo.com (was on his site sometime around 2003-2003 I think) and the "falling snow sword" on sho-shin.com. Nihonto.com has a really darn nice ichimonji tachi right now. It's the "Ima Aranami" tachi.

I found this one floating around on one of the websites in the "links" sections on this forum. The seller is willing to come down on the price a bit. I like the overall shape and I like the hada and it isn't all that bad for the price in my opninion. But... before I bite I want to know what you guys think. Seller says it's either Soshu or Yamato school (I think Yamato school), nambokucho era. My main worry is that it's a latter period, low quality piece that was made to look like an older blade. I know it's really hard to tell from the pictures, but...

I think I may try and check out the sword show in Chicago, although I may not be able to swing it as I have a major final presentation for a class due the Wednesday after the show....