paulb

Thank you Jacques I reached the same point yesterday. Then I looked at koto vol3 Nihonto-Koza page 259 . Normally Koza produces a list of smiths and then illustrates them chronologically. In this case where I expected there to be a Naotsugu there was a Tsunetsugu dated 1330, so a different one to the two you mentioned. I was hoping some other references might say something different. Thank you for your help regards Paul

Dear All I am trynig to do some work on the above mentioned smith(s). But have come up against what I think may be an error in Nihonto Koza (English translation) In the Cu-Aoe geaneology Tsunetsugu is not listed but Naotsugu is. when going through the illustrations there is no Naotsugu but a Tsunetsugu dated 1330. Could I ask those with access to the originals and other Japanese references if there is anything listed on Aoe Tsunetsugu working in the latter part of the Kamakura period? Many thanks for your help regards Paulb

One wonders why, if he is selling rubbish at inflated prices in the UK he feels the need to travel to Germany? I havent been to an arms fair in the UK for many years and although the quality of Nihon-To is rarely very high at the general events I have to say I havent often see items of the quality you describe being sold as authentic, repros or anything else. Please do not take the impression from your experience that: A) All dealers from the UK are crooks b) That all dealers from the UK are stupid or c) All buyers in the UK are stupid I am pleased to say our proportion of crooks is no greater (regretably no lower either) than anywhere else. I am sure the same is true of our stupidity. Regards Paulb PS if you hadnt guessed I'm English

Hi Brian, Thank you this is spot on. It is the same sword published in the journal. Interesting that they describe the yakiba as weak. On the example published and another I am looking at I wouldnt say it was weak. Difused might be a better term where the layers of sunagashi interact with the nie to produce a crumbled or torn effect. The next question when looking at the inscription which says "Daido Saku" does the Naofusa come in. Same smith as the original? second generaton? Thank you you have got me a step closer to the man. Much appreciated.

Dear All, In issue 683 of the NTHK magazine There is a Katana by Tanshu Daido illustrated. If I read the comment correctly this is a different smith to the Daido normally discussed as the founder of the mishina school and father of Kinmichi, Yoshimichi et al. To quote the journal: " This Daido is renowned among sword connoisseurs as he was invited by Hosakowa Fujitaka who was well versded in old customs and manners of the warrior elite, to make swords in his domains. As a result he moved from Mino to Tanobe (presently Maizuru) in Tango province." Some years ago I wrote a paper on the Mishina Daido and remember when doing it I read that he had a brother, also called Kanemichi and that their work was indestinguishable. I am wondering whether this is the brother or whether there was yet another one coming out of Mino at the same time, This sword is dated 1585, and working for Hosakawa Fujitaka. Any information on this smith would be gratefully received. Thank you Paul

Dear Reinhard, I agree with much that you say regarding Kantei. I actually started doing the original Aoi art kantei when it was a regular feature of their site several years ago. Snice then I have moved on to doing the NBTHK and NTHK kantei which appear in their respective journals. In the absense of many top class swords to examine these Shijo Kantei have proven to be an excellent learnig tool. I do not take part in the current AOI quiz (which is how they describe it) I dont find the images or the descriptons clear enough, (although that may be my eyesight in the case of the images) and I would be doing little more than guessing which I dont find a helpful learning experience. Where I do disagree with you is in your comment "Nihonto is not about fun". Of course it is, or rather it is about enjoyment and appreciation both of which contribute to having fun. If We did not enjoy the study and research what would be the motivation of spending hours, days and years in study not to mention the accumulated thousands of dollars in pursuit of the subject? I regard myself as a serious, sometimes too serious student of Nihonto. Virtually all of my spare time is devoted to the subject and has been for more than 25 years. If I did not enjoy (have fun) doing it wht would be the point?

Dear Joakim, I thnik there ar many here who would be happy to help you, and certainly confirm whether something was genuine or not. However the question as to whether something is a good buy, a worthwhile investment and even a good sword, is an extremely subjective and personal decision with infinite variables. As a basic starting point I would consider the following 1. As with any antique do not buy it as an investment, buy it because you like it. many here have seen prices drop considerably over recent years, I expect they will come up again but when is another question. 2. Armed with little knowledge you would do far better to buy fom a recognised dealer than via ebay. Ebay is full of average and poor swords, not to mention outright fakes. Yes an occassional bargain can and does appear but the ratio of poor to good must be massive. 3. Buy the best you can afford. on pure commercial terms long swords are worth more and easier to sell than short swords, BUT there are some very fine short swords around and you can get a lot better quality of workmanship for your money. 4. Avoid swords listed on auction sites as-"project", "study piece" "starter sword" as generally this implies poor condition and requiring a lot of expensive restoration (if possible) Finally buy something that you like and know you will enjoy. Having said all the above I support 110% the earlier comments made regarding buying books and studying, it may not tell you what you like but it may explain what you are looking at and help you understand why you like it. regards Paulb

Sorry to continue the negative theme Aaron but the mei is a long way off what I'd expect to see on any mainline Tadayoshi nakago and the 8th gen are generally very neatly cut. (see attached image) Would also be interested in see images of the whole blade. based on Nakago alone, which is always a bad thing to do I would think this is a gunto.

Hi Barry, I have just gone through a simlar exercise and found it an interesting experience. Like you those I chose to hold on to often had an emotional rather than academic interest. Some of those I chose to let go were better or relatively more important blades but I felt I had learned all I could from them and as my taste evolves/ changes with time I will gain more from something different. My "even if standing at the side of the road" blades include an O-suriage Enju blade with the most beautiful hada I have ever seen, A mino Katana passed to me by my teacher a year or so before he died and a number others with small stories to tell. Lettnig the others go, some that I had held for many years was not easy but I hope it will give the opportunity to improve my collection and my opportunity to learn more.

Hi Kevin based on a two minute assesment and without reference to any published material my first reactions are as follows: 1. Shape is good especially the slightly extended Kissaki which is somethng to look for with Omi Daijo. 2. Cant see enough detail of hada or hamon but the one thing that is certainly missing is a thick clear nioi guchi 3. The tiredness is a problem and I think would only get worse with polishing 4. The mei is along way off from any of the many variations of Tadahiros mei. 5. Overall the mei and nakago look poor quality when compared to the normal finish you see on this smiths work. Sorry to sound so negative and this is only personal opinion I will be interested in what others think. Best Regards Paul

Hi Bobby, The suggestion tha "Old papers invariably means gimei" is totally wrong. In fact there are many that argue that older Juyo papers were harder to win, and therefore of greater value than newer ones. Certainly swords with Old Juyo papers command equally high prices to recently papered swords It is true that there was a scandal surrounding the NBTHK in the late 70s and early 80s which resulted in a devaluation of papers from that period and the restructuring of the system in to its current form. But to suggest all or the majority of old NBTHK papers were suspect is nonsense. It is true that swords submitted today may obtain a diffrent attributon to the earlier one but this can be due to many factors, research s ongoing and as people learn more the opinions may change but again this would be the exception rather than the rule. regards Paul

Looks to be a good looking blade. To help narrow it down a little could you: 1. Post an image of the whole blade. 2. Is there masame hada in the shinogi-ji? 3. I hope it isnt my eyes but there looks to be nie in and around the hamon is that correct? Any other pictures you have will be useful thanks Paul

I would also go with Kanezane based on the hot stamp. Not my area at all but I have had a couple of his swords in the past and enjoyed both of them. There is a very moving letter of his published in Fuller and Gregory's book on 2nd world war swords. He made gendaito but also hand finished gunto. Not the best perhaps but by no means a poor smith.

I can see it regards Paul

Ford, I commend your ideas I think it would be extremely worthwhile (though incredibly difficult). You mentioned with painting composition, colour brushwork etc. I think, as with painting it is not enough that these individual aspects are well done they have to compliment each other and contribute to the whole. What makes a sword stand out (for me) is when all of the main elements shape, hada,hamon, nakago combine to create a product that is greater than the individual components. This is where it becomes extremely subjective but it is well worth trying to define. In my own limited exposure to top rated swords ther have been those that have left me cold but others that I have actually felt that I was in the presence of greatness (sorry if that sounds over dramatic but for a confirmed agnostic its as near to spiritual as i can get) It was the way that the different elements combined together in to a complete item, no particular feature stood out to the detriment of others and all worked in harmony together. For me this is best achieved in the works of Awataguchi smiths (the few i have seen) and to a lesser extent in other Yamashiro blades. The quiet understated elegance of these swords is stunning. I think this could be a valuable conversation although unlikely or unable to produce concrete answers. I look forward to hearing more Regards Paul b

I can second Fords comments about Mick Hicks. He did some work on a koshirae for me and produced a first class result. He is very able and a very nice guy to deal with. Paulb

Paul, There are many theories as to why unshortened (ubu) swords were not signed by the maker. As to the validity of each I am not in a position to judge, however some of the most common are: 1. Smiths working for temples (as in Yamato smiths) were producing blades for their own temple and a signature was not needed or thought appropriate. 2. Smiths working exclusively for a patron would not sign a blade as it was regarded as disrespectful 3. Smith working to an order might make several swords for his client to choose from. He would sign the one chosen and sell the others unsigned. 4. Smiths only signed blades when they were purchased. As a result of some or all of these there are a number of mumei ubu blades in existence. However do not beleive that unsigned blades are necessarily inferior to signed ones. I would certainly disagree with the idea that a signed blade by an average smith is a better buy than an suriage mumei blade by a good smith. What counts is the quality of the blade. If its signed great, if not enjoy the workmanship. The best blades I have seen and lusted afte have almost all been suriage, mumei swords from the Kamakura period. Unfortunately many others with deeper pockets than mine also lust after them! regards Paul B

Good Morning Jean, I saw this a couple of minutes ago on Aoi site. I have never seen anything similar from Uda. It looks very strange. The mid section where there appears to be Nijuba almost looks like a mistake, as though the clay fell off in the hardenning process. I have to say this is certainly not to my taste but for those that like flambouyant "blousy" hamon this fits the bill. If I saw this in a Kantei session I would have put it down as shinto and possible one of the ishido schools but would not have considered Uda. Guess I still have a huge amount to learn.

Etchu masatoshi is a well regarded smith and this looks to be a good sword. There appears to be some slight openness in the hada near the hamon but personally I would not regard this as too serious. The important thing is what do you think of it? Its your hard earned cash you are spending and the only opinion that truly matters is yours. IMHO I think this a good sword and reasonably priced. As many others here have done I have, over the past 10 years, bought swords and fittings from AOI-Art and have never been disappointed with my buys, infact some have been exceptionally good value (again in my opinion) Decide what you want from the sword you want to buy. Remember they are hand made and therefore likely to have some faults, especially after several hundred years. The faults on this one appear to be minor but again only you can decide if you can live with them. If I was still in to Shinto swords Masatoshi would be amongst my target smiths. hope this helps Paulb

Sorry Jacques I disagree. My understanding of a Hozon paper is that it states a blade is "worthy of preservation" For this to be true requires more of a blade than that it has an authentic signature and isnt cracked. It is true that the acceptable level of condition varies dependent on age and rarity but to suggest a signature and lack of hagire is sufficient justification to receive a hozon paper is I think an over simplification.

I understand that the European branch of the NBTHK will be producing the English translation. According to John Nandris the UK V.P for NBTHK Europe they hope the transition from the Japanese produced translation to the European one will be seamless. It may also open opportunities for specific references to be translated under commission from members. Regards paulb

I am sure Ian B will have a more detailed understanding of Snowshill and I think he has had contact from his time at the Armouries. However remembering a conversation I had some 20 years ago I was told that the house and collection was left to the National Trust but one of the conditions was that it be kept together and on display "As was". The original display room being a reconstruction of a Samurai camp before battle. From your description it sounds as though this may have been changed, whether for the aesthetic or conservation. Unfortunatley many such displays were assembled in country houses during the 19th century with goods from the Empire and more laterly from Japan as the country opened to 20th Century tourists. Many collectors of the day had little if any idea of the value of what they had. In fairness much of what they were sold were tourist pieces. The NT suffers the same problem as any other heritage body, funded largely by donation it has major problems meeting the maintenance costs of buildings and collections. I think they must get to the point of dreading being left another stately home to maintain. The issue is who else could look after the collection. I have the impression the Armouries are fully stretched with their own items so are many other museums. Most true restoration and conservation rests in the hands of private collectors. Unfortunately I dont think the National Trust are able to break up or sell the Snowshill collection. Paulb

As mentioned in an earlier thread I was able to go and see some of the swords on sale at both Bonhams and Christies. I was also surprised that the good swords did not generate more interest. I could not understand why the Kuniyasu Tachi failed to reach its low estimate of £40K when a Sukesada blade sold for £36k. Without detracting from the Sukesada the rarity of the Kuniyasu plus its Tokubetsu-Juyo rating should, I would have thought made it much more desirable. At the other auction the Rai Kunitoshi reached its lower estimate. Personally I did not find this a particularly attractive sword. It was described as Ubu although I note that in Clives description of the sale he said it was suriage. This would make more sense of both the fact it was mumei and a wakazashi (Kodachi). Maybe it was the lighting but I didnt see a great deal going on in it. There were some very fine blades at Christies and when you consider the sometimes astronomical figures reached by swords in the Mano collection sale and the fittings museum sale it is surpirising that these floundered. I think as Brian says it is indicative of the general market, notably many lots from other sections of both sales remained unsold. So it is just swords and fittings that are struggling at present.

Hi Goldy, Roger Robertshaw is very knowledgable on all things Tadayoshi and his opinions are usually very accurate. On first impressions and without refering to my books I would say it is either Gimei or a later generation. It is a good looking sword. The reason i am saying later generation is the lack of visible nie within the hamon and the jigane. Also the yasurimei are very indestinct (might be my eyes) I will check out against references and see if I can see anything more definitive. regards Paul

HI John, Yes I agree it is a high estimate. To be honest I have stopped trying to understand both auction houses estimates they dont seem to follow any logic. In the same sale is the Yoshimitus tanto which is also unpapered. It sold in 1992 for 22K US$ but is estimated in the auction at 25-35UKpounds more than double the 1992 price.