paulb

Dear All, I am part way through this volume. As said before it is well written (translated) and presented. It certainly contains some useful information and interesting theories. But rising to the challenge in one of Stephen's earlier emails regarding board members not being afraid to express their opinion can I introduce a note of caution. As said by virtually everyone here (often in euphoric tones) this is an interesting work. The author has many interesting theories and opinions which he expresses often with considerable passion. However they are by his own statement theories. Regrettably because of the nature of some of them, particularly those relating to shape, they can never be proven or disproven as examples in original form no longer exist. The author appear to enjoy being controversial, there is nothing wrong with that, but being cynical doesnt make you right. As said above I think this is an interesting, possibly an important piece of work which makes you (me) think and question ideas that have been regarded as fact for some time. However just because it is the latest theory it doesnt make it right or all that went before wrong. To draw a comparison I heard a lecture on surgical treatment of bowel cancer recently. The surgeons concluded that after nearly 100 years of trying inovative new theories they came to the conclusion that the method prescribied for surgery in 1910 gave far better resolution than the more recent practices. Just because it is a new idea it doesnt mean it is right or better. It is another idea/opinion. I am a little concerned when some of our newer members are recommended this as the first choice of a book on the subject. It is a very useful addition to a library but for me it would not be a first choice for someone starting out. I would have thought it far better to learn the basics from a traditional and conventional view point (such as this gentleman's teacher's teacher, Honami Kozon) before going on to this volume. Radical and out of the box thinking has its place and offers value but only against the background of conventional wisdom/theory. Regards paulb

Hi Grey, Possibly being over simplistic but isnt it just that they are both symbols of plenty? regards Paul

Hi Mark, Although I havent seen it very often it is not uncommon for pieces to be papered by both organisations. There is certainly no reason other than cost for not doing this. One of the few examples I have seen both appraisals agreed on period school and smith on a koto mumei work which I thought was very a impressive result. On other examples they have not agreed in all details. Regrads Paul

Dear Andrew, For a shinsa panel to appraise a sword they need to be able to see details of shape hada and hamon. Certainly I have seen panels (NTHK) make judgements on swords in less than perfect polish but they have to be able to see something. On the picture of your sword the only thing I can see is the shape (I am sure in hand more wold be visible) and I would doubt any judges would be able to give a worthwhile appraisal on what can be seen in the image. Rgerads Paulb

Jason, If you go to the links at the top of the page and Danny Massey's site Nihontocraft.com. there is an article defining NBTHK standards. For Juyo it says: Basically for a sword to obtain Juyo papers it must be of execellent workmanship and demonstrate all the characteristics of a school or smith. As near as is possible there should be no doubt regarding its attribution. It is quite often the case that if a sword is especially rare or an important historical work the panel may tolerate some tiredness or other faults which would not be acceptable in a more standard work. In Nihonto Koza there are examples of Juyo blades that hav virtually lost their boshi, but their importance, and rarity have resulted in them being awarded Juyo status. As to whether this blade is likely to obtain such papers, well the only way to find out is to submit it. The price being asked seems very high for a TH piece but this perhaps reflects the rairty of this smiths work. There is little to see in the video that demonstrates the quality described and there is tiredness (not surprising considering its age) I dont doubt it would look a lot better in hand and show much of the quiet elegnce one should expect from such a piece. reagrds Paulb

Kevin, Is this a sudden change with Fedex? Over the past couple of years I have had swords imported to and have sent swords out of the UK using Fedex. They have always been relatively trouble free. I know UPS refuse to carry swords, antique or otherwise as I think do DHL, but till now Fedex havent ever been a problem. Other than them I have used one specialist antique shipper to send stuff out of the UK and again they have been good so far. If anyone wants their details please pm me. regards Paul

Always difficult to tell from photographs but it looks as if the nakago has been "cleaned" which is not good news. As it is there is no evidence of the original finish or file marks (yasurimei). the finish and the signature look poorly executed and dont look Hizen in style. Do you have any images of the blade? Regards paul

Thank you gentlemen, I am glad you like the end result. My next project, some way in the future, is to put together an Ito-no-maki Koshirae for another piece. regretably suitable fittings are scarce and other things keep getting in the way. However one day who knows! thanks again Best Regards Paul

At risk of boring some longer serving members I posted images some 6 or 7 years ago of a project I had just finished . I had a blade in Shirasaya papered to O-Kanemichi (Daido) and decided I wanted to put together a koshirae for it. The blade dates from around 1580 and is quiet and conservative in form so I thought a Tensho Koshirae would best suit it. I spent several years sourcing the tsuba, menuki and fuchi, all date from around this period (the tsuba maybe 50 years later). The tsuka was made and bound by Michael Hicks in the UK. he also commissioned the saya, tsunagi and lacquer work locally. Both craftsmen were trained in the UK and carry out restoration work for museums in the UK and Japan. I was very pleased with the end result. I have to say that this style of mounting is hifgh on my list of favourites. regards Paul

Hi Henry, Combination of early posting (6am) and inability to spell which I doubt will ever improve much can cause confusion. I meant hour glass shaped. Thank you for posting th definitions. I see why you would consider Pete's example Higo based predominently on the saya. To me it looks like a combination of the two and works very well. Thanks again for the information Regards Paul

Hi Henry, Coming in late and lacking much knowledge on fittings, but I think the example Pete posted would be described as having Higo fittings but in Tensho style. I would be interested in others definitions but my understanding of Tensho style is: 1. Wasted Tsuka with black lacquered same under leather binding. Binding can be leather, lacquered or not, or doeskin. horn kashira 2. Conservative and relatively plain fittings 3. Black lacquered saya. Therefore the one shown on Freds site (Petes post) fits the bill. I have lusted after this koshirae for a long time, I think it is a beautiful set. Regards Paul

Hi Peter, even discounting the nakago and the possibility it has been shortened/reshaped I think the overall shape is still against it being Hizen. I would like to see it when you have it polished. good luck Paul

Peter, It is an interesting looking sword. I think you have already discounted the Tadayoshi label. Although the tight hada, thick nioi and nie in the hamon fit ok the shape and the nakago would be very unusual for Hizen work. (At least I dont remember seeing any like it). Apart from the very tight ko-itame you describe is there anything else? any sign of nagare or masame? The Osaka idea might be worth following up but I think to have a better idea you need to see it in a better polish. I have recently seen two swords, one koto and one shinto before and after polish and the amount of additional information you could see after the polish totally changed my view as to what they might be. I think if you had this polished a lot more detail would be apparent and an attribution a little easier. if you get it polished keep us posted with progress regards Paul

reminds me of a tanto I saw for sale in the UK. there had been a spate of robberies in his area so the owner used his home engraving kit to put his name across the blade. Certainly made sure no-one who knew anything about blades would want to steal it anyway. Thankfully it wasn't an important piece but even so it still destroyed any value it may have had. regrettably such people continue down their own path regardless of the information available to them. Paulb

Hi Dave, the number of holes is an indication of that the sword has been remounted at some time in its history. As you might expect older blades that have been shortened and or remounted can have any number of mekugi ana in them. The most I have seen is six, but doubt this is a record. Some Showa blades have 2 because they were fixed in to the hilt using two pegs or rivets one near the tip of the nakago, the second placed more centrally. Regards Paul

Pirs, the final legislation was both vague and weak. It basically added to the existing list of prohibited weapons "swords with a single edged curved blade over 50cm. long" It then added defenses alongside the already existing exemptions. These included antiques, swords for use in martial arts re-enactments etc. and some where includes the phrase made "using traditional methods". The original suggestion was "Japanese Swords made using traditional materials and methods" but the home office legal team seemed to fear this might be racist so went for the former. As soon as this was made in to law The very websites the ban was aimed at started selling "Perfectly legal straight samurai swords". As expected this legislation was a waste of time and has benefitted nobody. It is so vague and diluted no one can be really sure how it might be interpreted in a court. On face value Paul Chen swords are not made using traditional material or methods for a Japanese Sword. However they could and are used in the practice of martial arts and one presumes could be legally sold and purchased for that purpose. As you can see it is all a bit rediculous regards Paul

Justin, As Pete says it is up to you to collect what you want. There are probably as many reasons for collecting as there are collectors. Motivation for collecting and the merits of collecting swords from different periods has been debated here often and sometimes with considerable emotion. I think the important thing is for the individual to know what they are collecting and why. If your thing is battle damaged, repaired and battered pieces and you obtain pleasure from preserving and understanding that, great, continue to enjoy it. Where things get confused and sometimes arguments occur is when someone buys a blade in the condition you describe in the mistaken and hopeful belief they are national treasure art waiting to be discovered. When reality hits home people can get very defensive and try to dispute or argue what is front of their eyes. The guidance for collecting Nihon-To is the same as for everything else and can be summarised as follows: 1. collect what you like and the best you can afford within that field. 2. Dont buy for investment, buy because you enjoy what it is. If years on you sell it at a profit great, but if not appreciate the pleasure it has given you. 3. It is better to have a few good pieces than many mediocre. When starting out collecting in any new field the liklihood of affording the higher end works always seems daunting. Over time if you buy and sell wisely it is possible to build up to better works (if that is what you want to do) Many of the best collections I have seen started with a gunto blade which stimulated interest. Hopefully there is room within the subject for all areas of enthusiasm none necessarily better than the other, just different. If people warn you away from something it is based on the commercial value and your ability to recover your investment, which for old battle relics is always questionable. (The one you describe above has more than its fair share of problems that make it a financial liability). but as said above its up to you to buy and collect what you want. Just study enough so you fully understand what you are buying and are not caught out by something you dont recognise. Best Regards Paul

Daryl, In support of Veli's comments it is very unlikely tht you would buy a national treasure on ebay. I know that in the past some, I even think a member here, has bought a relic which transformed in to a Juyo balde on polishing. However if you consider this as one example against the number of blades which appear on ebay, the chances are somewhat similar to winning the lottery. You mention that someone has gone to a lot of trouble if it is a fake, well they did, that is why the subject is riddled with blades which still today scholar are uncertain about. Forgeries by such smiths as kajhei (spelling) are superb and he is notorious. They were very, very good at copying early works. Also consider you mention you are a relative novice, there are many extremely experienced dealers and collectors who regulalry trawl through ebay, it has been my experience that if I identify something with the outside chance of being reasonable those with greater knowledge have also seen it and regretably they always seem to have more money than I do. I think the quotation "there are no bargains on ebay" rings true in 99.9999% of cases. It is certainly not the place for novice collectors/sudents to attempt to buy their early pieces. With regard to this sword- the images tell you (well me) absolutely nothing. I can see no detail other than the shape which looks bland. Regarding your comments about "only being one Kuniyoshi" no this is incorrect. There are as Veli says many listed. The most famous, Niji Kuniyoshi and Rai Kuniyoshi are amongst the best swordsmiths in history. There are many Juyo Tokubetsu Juyo and national treasure blades made by these smiths. Regrettably I dont think this is one of them. It is possible that we are wrong and this on restoration could prove to be a master work however based on what can be seen, the nature of ebay and pure statistics I think it extremely unlikely. Best Regards Paul

Richard, I havent seen this done before either, but I am sorry to say that I believe your assessment about it being a fake is accurate.

George, I think the generally held view is that the mention of nambantetsu on shinto blades refers to the inclusion of some foreign steel in to a blade that is otherwise made with tamahagane rather than exclusively from foreign steel. As I think you or another said earlier once in a finished sword it is almost impossible to tell whether a blade was made from Tamahagane or something else. Personal view is that the vogue for including Dutch iron was a fashion thing created by the sudden availability of different raw material and the chance to differentiate yourself from those around you using basically the same local material. I also think that in one of Fuller and Gregory's books they described the "Tan" stamp as being indicative of a traditionally made sword. they do not mention the basis of this opinion. regards Paul

Henry wrote Why do rumours of the NBTHK being in trouble generate so much emotion? Especially if they are just rumours? Henry, I think the problem is that for many (me included) the NBTHK, particulalrly under Tanobe-san has offered the greatest point of reference and help available. It has undoubtedly had problems over the years and political intrigue (most long term organisations do) and there are those from within it who have been turned from it. Within the sword community in Japan there has been claim and counter claim and speculation. This has been added to by people in the west who like to feel they are "in the know". As a result we have seen rumours such as "The government forcibly closed down the NBTHK last week and formed a new body" appearing in various boards. those generating these rumours generally have little or no involvement with the organisation. When this occurs it is both frustrating and upsetting for those who are members and appreciate and respect all the good work caried out by the NBTHK I think it would be a very sad day for the Japanese Sword community (especially the overseas students) if these rumours became fact I also dont understand how this story has persisted over 8 months and why some seem to delight in the prospect of such an organisation failing

In an attempt to atone for my earlier error please see attached two rather poor photographs of a narrow suguha on a mumei Tadayoshi blade. There has been some debate between various appraisal bodies as to which generation this is. The workmanship suggests the shodai the shape the 4th generation. As can be seen it is not a pure suguha which is more indicative of the 1st than later generations. It also exhibits the "frayed" effect I described earlier with ko-nie falling through the nioi- guchi hope this helps regards Paul

Thank you Franco thats where I was getting confused. put it down to increasing years and reduced memory. regards Paul

Thanks John, I am sure you are right. it wouldnt be the first time I have misled myself over a lot of years and probably wont be the last

Craig, I think there is some terminology confusion here. (As I have just driven 900+ ks and finally got in it may be mine!!) Suguha is sometimes defined as Ko or ito if it is particularly narrow. Chu-suguha means the hamon is deeper. Hoso-suguha, I beleive, relates to the structure of the hamon where the edge looks frayed. Someone once described ot to me as looking at the torn edge of a sheet of paper. It is created by ko-nie running through the nioi guchi which in most Tadayoshi blades is quite thick and bright. It is also a strong characterisitc of the shodai's work which is less frequently seen in subsequent generations. hope this helps Regards Paul