Henry Wilson

A Kaneie with no hitsu ana, which seems to be quite a rare thing. This, by the way, is my favourite Kaneie and if the owner wants to part with.... I should be so lucky The expression on the fisherman's face is so fantastic. Sorry about the bad pics.

Glad you like them Christian You raise an interesting point above about the hitsua ana plugs. I do not know why they are plugged. My guess is that when the tsuba were mounted kogai / kozuka were not required probably because they would get in the way of such lovely tsuba. Just a guess. Steve's explanation above gets 10 out of 10 for sheer eloquence in my opinion. Thank you so much Steve for yet again explaining your thoughts so well. Also Fred and Christian make good points in that at the time the deer tsuba was maybe the only one that the scholars had seen. An important point that I had not considered. And best of all, not an argument or a nasty post in sight. Hooray! Thank you all

More fuel for the minds. If you are like me and have ever wondered how a Kaneie tsuba would have been mounted, the following scans will be of interest. The sword (a Mitsutada) and koshirae are on display at the Nezu Museum as part of the "MEIBUTSU Treasured Japanese Swords" exhibition. The display concentrates mostly on swords but the Kaneie included was a real treat. Sorry about the lack of quality of the scans but I think you can get the idea from them.

Attached are a few tsuba that might be interesting to compare. They are all by the second Kaneie where the deer tsuba is by the first. Monkey tsuba. 猿猴捕月図 And a temple / lanscape. 塔山水図 One of me thinking about stuff :D (Only a joke) 柿本人麻呂図

domo avocado

Don't forget Christian too :D Thank you everyone so far. Everyone else please don't be shy to add constructively to this discussion.

This has the potential of becoming quite an informative thread. Before I start please DO NOT let this turn into a fight. If you have nothing constructive to say PLEASE SAY NOTHING The following tsuba is a very famous iron tsuba by the 大初代金家　or in other words Kaneie I. It depicts deers in the ground of Kasugano Temple in Nara. I think a lot of scholars would probably hail this as the the best Kaneie tsuba and therefore arguable one of the best iron tsuba there is. I personally think it is OK for either Kaneie as to me the deer look kind of Disney. Don't get me wrong. In my opinion it is good, in fact it is very very good and I love it and I am not saying anything other than I feel that there are other better Kaneie around, and think from what I have seen, Kaneie II is better and a lot more satisfying. I think the landscapes that Kaneie does is much superior to the figures. So, what makes the Kasugano tsuba above so good? Why do scholars such as Haynes talk so highly of it? I have been puzzling over this for a while and would like any one's CONSTRUCTIVE comments that might guide me in fully appreciating this wonderful tsuba. Thank you all in advance.

That is a beautiful tsuba Fred. If you are coming it to Tokyo for the next KTK convention,it would be a real treat if you brought it along. I don't quite understand your question but if you are asking what makes Fred's tsuba so good, all I can say is study, study and more study......

I think that one is Aizu Shoami... Are we still talking Kaneie? The Kaneie, 10th from the top looks familiar. But I don't think it was being sold by Ginza Choshuya (if it is the one I am thinking of). Time for bed. NOTE: 12 hours later. The 10th from the top is in the DTI 2010 catalog and was sold by Ginza Choshuya. Sorry for any confusion on my part.

I have.

Hi Curran Nice link. The pictures are very nice and top quality. If Martin could provide a picture of his tsuba that is of the same or near same quality as the ones in the link I think the difference between Kaneie I and II and the Saga school would be quite clear. In my opinion the Saga did good "imitations" of Kaneie but compared to the real thing there is no comparison in the following: metal quality, hammer work, inlay, carving, overall composition....

Here is a review: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 901a1.html

Not "sword" related but might be of interest none the less. http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/ne ... 572646.stm

I agree there David. Time for lunch!!! http://bokuwajanice.files.wordpress.com ... g_1429.jpg

I think the key kantei point with Yagyu is the type of metal and more specifically the granular surface. Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the input but don't be shy and please explain how you came to that conclusion as it could be a car wheel as well .

Hi David Nice tusba. Do you have pictures of the tsuba straight on, without light shining across it? From what I can see in the pictures, it does seem to have characteristics of Yagyu but my initial impression is that it is pushing the boundaries in size. For maru gata, I would expect 7.0 cm to 7.5 cm. Also the sukashi (which I would call itomaki) I think is not elaborate enough and the tsuba generally lacks a boldness for any Owari school. The metal looks well forged but Yagyu should be slightly more granular I think. Here is a information form Sasano (silver book) p.205 I think comparing the posted tsuba to the above summary would make me exclude Yagyu and think Shoami and possibly Ko Shoami. And finally, a classic late Yagyu. http://www.nihonto.com/11.2.09.html Just my two yen worth.

I have given up collecting swords but when I did, I quickly realised that uchiko is the best way to dull a good polish. I never used it after that moment. I used a micro fibre cloth, the kind you get for computer screens and camera lens etc. This worked well when I gave the swords a "clean".

I am not tech savy at all but for what it is worth it is podcast which means it is only audio.

If you have an iPod, these free downloads (a work n progress) are very interesting. http://frug.podbean.com/feed/ Enjoy

The rim shape is called kobushi gata or "fist shape". Because of its originality at the time it came represent Kaneie so the shape is quite usual for Saga Kaneie school. Honestly the one that you originally posted is definitely not the Dai Shodai or Meijin Shodai. From the pictures, it is definitely Tetsunin AKA Saga. If you are really interested, Kaneie is great to study so I recommend buying some books on him as well as "Tsuba. An Aesthetic study" which gives a good summary on him / them. Owning a peice by the first two Kaneie is most probably out of the question as they are near impossible to buy. However I think that these days with the economy the way that it is they are becoming available. There was a wakizashi size one last year for about 5,000,000 yen in Tokyo last year which was the first I ever saw on a dealer's table.

Sorry Brian. Also sorry Martin too as if were a Shodai I think that 5,000,000 yen would be more realisitic. It is not a Nidai either or by anyway made by any of the Kaneie masters of the Muromachi / Momoyama period. If you want to see work by the real Kaneie, have a look for the following books: 24255 Kaneie Tsuba S. Ikeda 14944 Kaneie Tsuba Kanbetsu Hikke M. Matsuzawa 24256 Kaneie no Kami-waza K. Yoneno 33045 Kaneie no Kenkyu T. Uemori Which can be bought here: http://www.koshoyama.com/kinko.htm Real Kaneie is astounding.

After reviewing your research and looking in my library I would like to say congratulations as I think with out a doubt that you have found a Shodai Kanaei. I would estimate that it is worth probably about 3,000,000 yen at least and that it would probably go for more if you so wished. PS Mods sorry can't resist

It would have been attached using a glue. Possibly a pine resin as used to fix menuki in a tsuka.

It could be off the front of a tobacco pouch http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&su ... a=N&tab=wi