Henry Wilson

These are both very interesting. Heiji Scrolls http://learn.bowdoin.edu/heijiscroll/ Scrolls of the Mongol Invasion http://www.bowdoin.edu/mongol-scrolls/

This might help for now. The maru bori carving seems well done, but that could be me not knowing much. Better pics are need in my opinion as it reminds me of Jurassic Park

Nice tsuba. To me the metal and the way it is worked is why it has been papered to Owari. The motif of reeds and an oar (芦に櫂) is interesting and wonder if it hints to this story: From JAANUS Also the paddle motif seems to be connected to Ashikaga http://www.yamabushiantiques.com/BM%20K ... 0Tsuba.htm Just some thoughts. Posted from iPhone.

That sounds like a lot of fun, as well as a great chance to learn a lot too. If you every host one in Japan I would definitely consider getting out off my armchair and participating. To all those attending enjoy (I am jealous) and keep us informed on how things go.

Many thanks Boris for more enlightening information. I have dug out descriptions from a translation of Uchigatana Goshirae of the two koshirae that you have posted for reference. Also here is a tsuba from the Sasano Kagamishi book. I have done a rough translation on the description that Sasano includes. Wave and circle pattern tsuba. No.8 It is a cast tsuba that has Odawara Hikozou ornamental style rim with stars. The overall design has a feeling of antiquity. The wave and concentric ring pattern is soft but powerful and gives a feeling of the Kamakura period. Overall the tsuba has a feeling of largeness and based on this I think the tsuba is from the Nanbokucho period.

You're welcome Mariusz. I enjoyed writing about the guard. Would anyone like to comment on: - the significance of mounting a sword with a Kagamishi tsuba. - what kind of koshirae Kagamishi tsuba would have been mounted with. I think there is a lot more to discuss here.

I think we all agree that this tsuba is an unusual item and from what I remember when I owned it, does not look like or feel like a tsuba or mirror as we know them. I have been scratching my head wondering what it could be if not a tsuba. Personally, after considering many theories and doing some research into alternatives, I can't help coming back to the fact that the item has a distinct design on both sides which in my opinion suggests that it was meant to be seen in its entirety. In other words, a lid or a mirror or any other item of this nature would only have a design done on one side, as the reverse side does not need a pattern. Considering what kind of items that would be seen in its entirety and applying Occam's razor, leads me back to believe that it was made as a tsuba. Attached are sketches from the 集古十種 (（しゅうこじゅっしゅ or Shyuu Ko Jyu Shyu) which is basically a field survey carried out by a group of Edo period artists / scholars to document items in temples and shrines (and other places including tombs I think). Here is a link and some information on it: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15197 Below is from page 20 of 集古十種 and I think the top right mirror is of interest. The inscription beside roughly says it was excavated from an estate of Ida Castle in the Ina district of Shinano. If you look at the inner band you see a pattern called 百足脚 or 100 legs / centipede pattern. It can be describe as a series of lines coming from the center with a circle that cuts the lines in the middle. The next picture is from p.28 and the mirror in the bottom right is of an old mirror and the pattern can be described as 籠目 or woven bamboo with characteristic cross hatching. This style of repeating pattern seems to originally occur in old Chinese mirrors going back to very early times and continuing to Jin / Song Dynasties (around 960 to 1234 AD) In the Kagamishi the radiating lines with a circle on top of them is a very distinct feature. After some research this specific design seems to be unique and could be idiosyncratic to the maker. However I think the evolution of the pattern can be traced back to old Chinese mirrors which I think is illustrated well below: To my eye, if we combine these mirrors and the characteristics highlighted, we get a very similar composition as seen in the Ko Kagamishi tsuba and this is illustrated in the diagram below: I have been very careful in choosing the Chinese mirrors to compare with as I do not know very much about them and probably would not be able to tell a fake from a real one. All the pictures of Han Dynasty mirrors are taken from the Murakami Collection that was exhibited in the Nezu Museum in Tokyo. The catalog is the 3rd one down at this link: http://www.nezu-muse.or.jp/en/publications/page02.html Here is one last slide form the 集古十種 comparing the Ko Kagamishi. Considering all the above I am quite sure this tsuba was influenced by old Chinese mirrors. There is another tsuba that is in the Sasano Kagamishi book which has the same type of rim finish similar to the mirror in the 集古十種 page 28 referred to above. I have been wondering why such Kagamishi are so unique, why there are not many other tsuba that share these Chinese design characteristics and, with the lack of seppa dai, why they break from traditional tsuba convention as seen in Japan. The safe explanation is to ignore these points and say that these tsuba were domestically produced in Japan, around the Nanbokuchuo period as the initial seller told me, and the Kinko artist used Chinese designs that he knew and modified them for the Japan market. With Mariusz's Ko Kagamishi, I can't get over the fact that the large rim has been carved into to accommodate a scabbard. This and the lack of seppa dai as usually seen on Japanese tsuba suggest to me that it was not made in Japan as the maker seems to have not been aware or entirely clear on the dimensions and requirements of the kind of sword it would be fitted on. If we accept this and throw caution to the wind, assuming there were other similar ones once made, leads me to think that there is a chance that this kind of tsuba was imported to Japan during the period of tenuous commercial contacts that were maintained with the Southern Song Dynasty and the Kamakura Shogunate at a time around the 1300s. I dare say, Mariusz's Ko Kagamishi, the Sasano tsuba I refer to and the Burawoy tsuba could be regarded as examples of the kind of tsuba that led to the term Kagamishi being used as to me they clearly emulate old Chinese mirror patterns. I personally think these points are possible (as a long shot of course ) and the Ko Kagamishi tsuba in question is clearly very old, and seems to share stylistic elements with Kagamishi work being imported and domestically produced during the period of the late 13th to 14th centuries. Not many of the same sort of heavily inspired Chinese design survive, suggesting to me that only a relative few were made or the majority have been lost over time because of their age. I hope this post was worth waiting for and I would love to hear other people's thoughts on the points raised.

I recently found a collection of online books from the National Diet Library here in Japan. Below is the sword volume of the 集古十種. To see the other volumes click on "前の巻号 後の巻号" arrows at the top right of the screen. To flick through the book click "前 次"　bottoms above the magnifying glass icon. http://kindai.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/849536 集古十種 can be interrupted roughly as "Ten volume collection of Antiquity". For more information have a look here. It is only in Japanese though. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9B%86% ... 1%E7%A8%AE The dodgy Google translation is here. http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... CDMQ7gEwAA

Hi Boris Could you describe the ura of the tsuba? Cheers

Yes, agreed. And many thanks to Brian for putting up with us!

Hi Ford Thank you very much for the compliments. When I was comparing the carving of the waves with the paintings, I noticed that the carving is less articulate and not as flowing as the paintings. I hoped that this distortion might be because it is over magnified, so for fun I scaled the kozuka done to approximate size, but the irregularities are still noticeable and once noticed could be a little hard to get over for people who know the mainline master well enough (I confess, I don't know his work at all). That and the chunky neck on the crane leads me to agree with you that the apparent awkwardness with his chisel is not deliberate. Dare I say, overall, on the samples provided, to me it seems he was a little out of his depth in the katakiri area. All in all, I like the kozuka and would be happy to own it, but beyond the motif, does not quite fit in with my interests. Also thank you Ford for the pointers on the appreciation of Japanese art. The Bowie book is something I hope to get to in time to come. At the minute I am looking at the Chinese side of painting and enjoying the books below, but hope to graduate on to Japanese painting sometime soon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chinese-Painting-James-Cahill/dp/0847800792 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thousand-Chinese-Painting-Culture-Civilization/dp/0300094477 It always delights me how the art forms overlap and what can be learned from dipping into them.

Thanks Brian. Glad to know my efforts are appreciated.

I was going to post this yesterday but decided not to because I felt the thread had gone cold. However, Ford's post on the Machibori and the inclusion of slides, especially the Fudo Myoo under a waterfall has breathed some new life into it. I did some digging myself and found a painting that adds to what I was talking about in an earlier post. This is an image I found on the Net. The colours have been tweaked by me to make the painting clearer. It is described as "Chinda Waterfall after Sesshu" by Kano Tsunenobu (1636-1713) and is ink on silk. It is a copy by Kano of Sesshu, the famous Muromachi period sumie artist and was displayed in the "Sesshu - Master of Ink and Brush" exhibition in the Tokyo National Museum in 2002 which I was lucky enough to attend. What is of interest is the flowing, churning water in the bottom left. This is a close-up camera shot from the catalog of the exhibition which is why the resolution is quite clear. It is this kind of ink work that is often seen in old classic ink paintings that sprang to mind when I initially saw the kozuka. Putting the kozuka motif between the Kano and the Fudo Myoo waves (and flipping the Fudo Myoo waves), there is clearly, in my opinion, similarities in composition and visual effect. I agree with Ford and say Goto Mitsutaka was maybe going avante garde, trying something new and feel he has managed to express and capture on metal through carving a level of sophistication (or a level seemingly lacking sophistication) that ink painters were striving for. Kaneie was fond of 山水 designs and seems to have been inspired by Song Dynasty ink paintings and some of his work has waves in them too. The waves on this close-up seem to be similar to the kind we are discussing, especially directly under the court offical looking face on: Here is a link to the tsuba from the Mosle collection: http://yakiba.com/tsuba_kaneie.htm On another note: Just to point out and in case it has been overlooked, it is also interesting that sukashi tsuba themselves also mimic ink paintings. The cut out spaces can be viewed as the white silk / paper and the remaining metal and carving can represent the black ink strokes. In the tsuba, notice the long tailed turtle and the way the bottom left leaf of the bamboo is slightly creased, giving a sense of a light breeze blowing through the bamboo.

It reminds me of this: I should stop horsing around. :lol: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21501568

I have taken the liberty to put the kozuka between two other samples posted at the beginning of the thread. (The middle one is the kozuka that got the thread going). To my eye between the test kozuka and the top plate, there is a clear difference in technique of how the carvings were cut. Compared with the bottom one, the compositions are similar but they have been executed differently. The composition of the waves, the crests and the splashes on the kozuka in question to me are very Japanese Edo period in style. In contrast the boldness of the carved lines and how the engraving is quite tense, stiff and lacks a feeling of flowing, and which make it seem quite unsophisticated, reminds me of early Chinese images. During the Tang Dynasty, landscape painting in China became its own specialized area. They were generally bold pictures with dark outlining that contained the colour (see below) but they finally evolved into the incredible Chan (Zen) inspired landscapes of the Sung dynasty, which were imported by the Ashikaga Shogunate. In the kozuka, there seems to be a two dimensional effect trying to emulate a three dimensional sense of depth in the carving which in my opinion is found in sansui (山水) landscape paintings. The motif feels like a snap shot or a section of a much larger work which is why the detail and technical sophistication has been made to seem slightly inferior simply because it is not the point of what the artist is suggesting or truly trying to depict in the mind's eye of the viewer. These landscape paintings can be enjoyed as one complete picture, however there is a lot of enjoyment to be gained by looking very closely at them and picking out the detail and the finer points. To me the kozuka carving is not to be solely regarded as itself, but as an intense over-magnified small snippet of a bigger picture. I think that the Goto artist was trying to get back to basics as many artist tended to do when their style becomes over ripe for the times being the 13 master in a long line extending back to the Muromachi. I think he was trying to recreate the times when scholars sat together enjoying, studying, analysis and discussing landscape paintings. Whether he did this successfully is another thing, but I think this is what he was trying to do. The ideal of the landscape painting was: “Shan shui (landscape) painting is a kind of painting which goes against the common definition of what a painting is. Shan shui painting refutes color, light and shadow and personal brush work. Shan shui painting is not an open window for the viewer's eye, it is an object for the viewer's mind. Shan shui painting is more like a vehicle of philosophy.” To me the kozuka is working on the above notion be it a very micro-version and in doing so hints at shibui (渋い) loosely and vaguely defined as "refined, subdued, understated" and miyabi (雅) which can be understood as a "pursuit for elegance, the pining for the perfect, heart breaking". Also yūgen (幽玄) which is defined loosely as "mysterious" or "deep" “hidden beauty, simplicity” comes to mind too. (These Japanese terms can be interrupted in different other ways too as much as delicious to me is not necessarily delicious to you.) In short, the lack of apparent skill in the kozuka from someone who is so skilled (if not a gimei) is what to me makes it interesting. But when put side by side with the other works in the picture above, I think it doesn't look so bad after all.

Ford Hallam wrote: Sorry, I won't waste my time in future. although I do wonder why I bother regards all, Ford LOL. I love to see you throw your toys out off the pram. Yes, why bother if you are going to be like that. Finally, it amuses me that you seem to be the "be all and end all" of any disagreement in tosogu appreciation. Your bully / passionate artist approach really is off putting. Sorry Mike and other readers for the hornets nest but sssh Ford is speaking.

Deleted by author. Post duplicated below.

Despite it being knocked by my betters, I still find the kozuka in question very nice and I can imagine it being received well here in Japan. Thank you Mike for sharing. Maybe I am slowly turning Japanese. I think this is a good point that a lot of us are hasty to overlook. Just because it doesn't jangle your bell does not mean it is bad. Without starting a fire in a hornets nest, I also find it amusing that Ford has been so kind to define shibui for us. He puts it very eloquently, maybe I am being hyper-sensitive but please try not to be so patronising.

I think this is a Jerusalem cross motif tsuba: http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... a/h123-ono Jerusalem cross http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_cross

Lovely! Shibui comes to mind!

I agree with Markus and Brian above. The problem with gloves is that it is easy to drop things. I only wear them when handling soft metal fittings and lacquered things like koshirae.

Plenty of books here, including Haynes catalog on page 2. http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... ings-Books

This book has a very readable intro to tosogu in my opinion. http://www.lulu.com/shop/richard-george ... 48110.html

That is indeed sad news and condolences to his friends and family. As a thought, if anyone has any of his work or any photos of his work, posting pictures and information here might be a nice way to remember him by.

Nice find David on those two tsuba. I completely agree with you on that one. The examples you refer to from Mr Gilbert's site are quite high quality in excellent condition.