Shugyosha

Hi Vincent, What a person appreciates as a collector, or just appreciates, is a completely personal thing. I think I veer more towards art than artefact in terms of what I enjoy so, for me, kitae ware and shintetsu showing are things that put me off. I quite like the idea that someone intended to make a weapon but also, whether through skill or a happy accident, created something beautiful. Fatal flaws are mostly a no go, though did once buy a cheap tanto with run off at the boshi because I liked the rest of it and it was, of course, cheap. So condition is a consideration for me but flashy shinto blades don’t do it for me much (even in polish) and an overdone hadori polish is probably worse than an out of polish blade showing some of it’s natural qualities (for me). Ultimately, I think for each of us, we have to work out for ourselves where the sweet spot lies between art, artefact, price and that undefinable something where an object just speaks to us and buy (or just admire) accordingly. That said, be prepared for your taste to change over time and perhaps on a case-by-case basis. The only rules are the ones you set for yourself. Apologies for the ramble. 😁

Hi Claus, My first impression matches that of Oli - a shin shinto piece, but it might also have been made around Keicho when the same sugata was popular. Could you post some detailed shots of the hamon, hada and boshi please? That might help with putting a date on it. A nice looking package though. 👍

Hi Bruce, It occurred to me that I could perhaps save a bit of time in future by knocking up a crib sheet for the alternative forms for numbers and I thought I may as well share. I got the information from Jisho, the on-line Japanese dictionary so it's as good as the information available there and may not be comprehensive: 1. - 壱 2. 弐 or 貮 or 貳 3. 参 or 弎 4. 肆 or 亖 5. 伍 6. 陸 7. 漆 or 柒 8. 捌 9. 玖 10. 拾 100. 陌 or 佰 1000. 阡 or 仟 10,000. 萬

Hi Bruce, What Chandler said and 拾 is a different way of writing the number 10 - there are variations in legal documents (and on swords) to make the number harder to alter. So the date is a lucky day in August in the 17th year of Showa.

I can make out 貞弘作 - Sadahiro saku or ??sada Hironari if the last kanji is part of the signature - the lighting on the first two kanji isn't clear enough for me to read.

Here you go Hamish:

It's an easier mistake to make than you might think - tsuba with this very overdone inlay style are fairly representative of what I'd always considered to be Kyo kenjo tsuba: https://www.aoijapan...suba-mumeikyo-kenjo/ See the post by David Stiles (Soshin) on a different thread for a Kaga tsuba of similar style to that of the OP: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/27077-kaga-zogankaga-school/ When I was researching my own tsuba I came across a Kyo kenjo tsuba in the style of that on the Aoi website with a similar kao, but the workmanship was so different and the kao was slightly off so I discounted it. Anyway, everyday's a school day...

Hi Grev, Could you post a picture of the whole signature please Grev? I don't think it's in common use and it might help to have it in context.

Well the bidding hasn't gone crazy so far, only three bidders up to now. I assume that there will be a bunch of snipers hiding on the long grass but I thought there would be more interest.

Hi Iansa, Both are Edo period tsuba. The design of the first one is fairly typical for those originating in Kaga province in terms of its overall shape (slightly dished around the seppa dai, the area immediately around the hole for the sword's tang) and the gold inlay (Kaga zogan). I think that you would describe the theme as "autumn grasses and insects" and I had a very similar one also signed just with a single kao (artist's seal) and, whilst I'm relying on memory, I think it was the same one. Unfortunately, I could never pin it down to a specific individual. See my first post in this thread with a (hopefully) a picture of mine attached. https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23518-unusual-tsuba/#comment-238881 With regard to the second one, as Dee says it has a war fan, a banner and the other item might be a representation of the cloth screen used by Japanese commanders to create a private area around their pavillion but I'm guessing there. I'd guess that it was perhaps from the Bushu school (working within the province of Bushu or related to it) given the carved iron and openwork design but that's not unique to that school and without a signature it's hard for me to be more precise. If you google Bushu tsuba you'll get a feel for what I'm talking about. I hope that gets you started and I'm sure you'll get some more information soon.

Whatever it is, it does look pretty poor quality though - just considering the "nanako" itself, it's of varying heights and shapes and non-existent in places and that alone would make me steer clear.

Hi Ran, That looks correct to me. Have a search around on the forum and internet, you'll find plenty to compare it to.

Great exercise Colin, thank you!

I’m on my phone and can’t magnify the pictures but I’ll guess the left hand one for the same reason as JohnC but also because the seppa dai is patinated and it doesn’t have the tagane ato similar to the Nagoyamono examples earlier on the thread.

Also a lot of museum collections are based on donations made by 19th century collectors who made bulk buys of lower grade and gimei tsuba. “Museum quality” tsuba are often not so good as those in private collections. If you haven’t already, a good look at this thread:

Hi Gwyn, Long time no-see - I hope that you’re well. 👍

Yes. I think that whoever told you it was from the muromachi period was wrong or did so to make the blade more attractive to you. Google Kanbun shinto sugata - your blade is a similar shape to that seen around the 1660s. Also, if you do a search on both smiths’ names a correlation will confirm when they were both working in Bungo or perhaps someone can quote from a list of smiths to pin it down?

I assume that it's what Piers said: that it has only just been to shinsa and they're waiting on the papers otherwise you would just hand over the papers with the sword wouldn't you? It does seem to be a very odd way to go about things.

I think it's a representation of Jurōjin - often depicted with a staff (sometimes with a fan too) and a deer.

There’s (insert appropriate quantity) born every minute. There’ll be a “what did I just buy” thread shortly…

I don't know and I suspect that this is one for Jussi to answer if anyone can. This thread mentions a sai ha Sadamune retempered by Echizen Yasutsugu who is known to have retempered a number of important fire-damaged blades in the 17th century and I would be surprised if there weren't more amongst those blades that made Juyo - but obviously that's opinion not fact.

I don't think so - given the position of the marks on the tang relative to the mekugi ana, it suggests the sort of wear from habaki that you might see on an old blade - at least you would hope that something so obvious wouldn't get past the NBTHK. For me the key issue (if I were fortunate enough to have the wherewithal to buy it) would be Jussi's point: having to buy blind without sight of the paper. Sekizan seems to be unknown to the internet so the sayagaki doesn't necessarily add anything for those who didn't know him so that doesn't help. It will be very interesting to see how the bidding goes on this - it's possible to speculate that it might be a Juyo candidate or higher based simply on its rarity and historical value.

Being generous, it might just be some shrinkage of the same/ wrap as it has moved around the peg hole too. Being less generous, it looks like someone has coloured the wood with black ink to try to hide what has happened and it doesn't look very good.

I think the late muromachi period might be a bit of a stretch with the new papers too. Had I seen that blade without knowing what Aoi had said, from the shape and condition (leaving aside the state of polish) I would have said shinto all day long. It might be what Aoi say it is in this regard but (for me anyway) I’d say later.

Hi Carlo, I can't see anything about the paper or sword that would make me think that it is anything other than as stated. There are several smiths signing this way, but probably 3, perhaps 4 who were active during the period to which the sword is dated: https://nihontoclub....a=All&school_nid=All If you go to the www.aoijapan.net website (where they list the swords they've sold previously) you will get a number of hits if you use the search facility but you'll have to sift through them: https://www.aoijapan...=norimitsu&x=22&y=13 Alternatively or in addition, a general internet search on "Osafune Norimitsu Bunmei" returns a number of hits for swords made around the same time as this one.