Danocon

This was really the main point of my post. Didn't mean to start a post off topic. There are indeed many places on the web to discuss the ins and outs of making blades in the Japanese tradition. But the nature of the material ,the tools and the limits of human skill really dictate the end product. It is not magic and as Chris said, understanding the processes can lead to a better overall understanding of Nihonto. For me, I am completely lost when you guys use minute details of the sword to identify a swordsmith-its why I am here. But I have also seen questions asked that could be easily answered if the process from beginning to end was known. Chuck, The discussion of modern monosteels in the recreation of Japanese style blades is deep and fascinating. But Brian is right. Bringing them into the discussion adds nothing to the study of traditional Nihonto. The Tamahagane, oroshigane and even the imported steels that the smiths used have left an indelible mark on the craft. And also as Chris alluded to-The metallurgy alone of these complex materials can be a lifetime study. I will sneak in here and comment that I have settle on W-2 as well for just the reasons you stated.

Thanks Harry I am not sure how big your forge is but even a traditional charcoal sword forge only heats an area about 12" long at the most. Getting an even heat over a katana length blade for yakire is one of the more difficult skill sets to acquire.

Please show us some of what you have already forged. _________________ Ken Goldstein Uh No :D I have been away from the forge for 8 years now as I built my house. And while I would not say I am not proud of what I have made before I would say that much of it reflects a lack of commitment. I bounced between swords and woodworking tools-planes mostly. Building this Kagi-ba is in many ways a new beginning. There is a huge difference between Japanese style blades and Nihonto. Am I pursuing recreating Nihonto? Not exactly-But there are levels and nuances I can take from the long tradition of Nihonto that will keep me busy for as long as I wish to pursue it. That is one reason why I visit this forum to be exposed to these many levels and nuances. And I am most interested in how the shaping of these elegant blades shapes me. Bladesmith Don Fogg says that the hammer works both ends-the blade and the bladesmith. So what I have made before is done and does not define what I will make. Check in from time to time if you like see how we are coming along

As you all know the way a Mei is normally chiseled is that the tool is held slightly off of vertical so the the back edge is in contact with the work. The smith strikes a blow making a small mark then repositions very slightly and does it again. This leaves the characteristic series of marks in the bottom of the cut. This was cut with a graver. A graver cuts like wood carving chisel taking a chip out almost parallel with the bottom. The shape of the graver is that the bottom is V shape and the front is a blunt angle. Look at the lower right stroke of top character of the kato.jpg. You can see where the cutter enters to the right it leaves a V shaped entry form. On the left or end of the stroke it is square from the square end. This is typical throughout the signature. On strokes that show a V shape on both ends the graver was entered from each end meeting somewhere in the middle. My opinion anyway.

Hello all My name is Dan O'Connor and I have lurked around here for a while. Great information guys-Thank you If anybody is interested, I am building a Kagi-ba (sword forging shop) from the ground up. I have been forging blades off and on for about 30 years. I am truly an amateur but I was able to work with some Japanese swordsmiths in the 80s. Including the Yoshihara brothers. Please don't misunderstand, I am not claiming to be trained by them just that I had the opportunity to work with them the times that they were in Dallas. Anyhow I am chronicling the build and subsequent forging of blades here. http://www.katanabuilders.com I cover the building of the forge itself, the fuigo (box bellows), making charcoal and on and on. This is not a fast operation since I have a fairly demanding day job but it is proceeding. This may add some background and insight to go along with your study of Nihonto. Come and look if you like, comment if you like. Thanks again for all the great info here.

Hello all, I have recently joined this forum. Mostly to get a better in depth understanding of traditional Nihonto. I have approached this from the bladesmithing side and have not really delved deeply into the nuances of older blades. Hence the reason I am here. So for the most part I will lurk here and absorb info. But in this discussion I may be able to add something. Ted pretty much summed it up. As received the Tamahagane is a very non-homogenizes porous material. The smith will select likely chunks, flatten them in the forge, heat them to CT (critical temperature) and quench them in water, then break them into little pieces. This helps him sort the low and high carbon pieces. The high carbon pieces can range from 1.5-2.0 percent carbon-way too much for a sword. You want .6-.7 percent. The folding does two things-it refines and homogenizes the material exactly the way kneading bread dough gives it a finer texture and it reduces the carbon. Welding heat is right at the temperature where carbon begins to burn. In fact that is the sign that welding temperature has been reached. Little sparklers of carbon shoot out of the forge and there is a sound exactly like bacon frying. You wan to hit it just as it starts to burn other wise you burn the steel into uselessness. Looking at the theoretical number of layers A 7 fold foundation forging gets you 128 layers. Combine three such billets and then fold them 6 more times theoretically you get around 24,000 layers. In a .250" piece of steel each layer would be .0000104" thick. You would never see this. So the pattern we see is not each individual layer but amalgamations of layers. Plus as Ted said there is huge amount of material loss. The smith tries to control the loss with rice straw and clay slurrys but even at that with a 13 fold process 50% of the material is lost. In a 100 fold process all the material and certainly all the carbon would be gone long before the final fold.