chrisf

Are you thinking of 'Gunto Art Swords'?

In return may I thank you for a fascinating insight,may I also say how well you express yourself in these terms,something you have in common I believe with others that I have listened to or read who are genuinely comfortable with their knowledge. My first experience of this was listening to a lecture by Kenji Mishina when he was resident in the UK and was reminded of it when reading Kunitaro san's posts,do you think that your language has become moderated or altered in some way over time? I did say to another member the other day how important it is to learn and understand the correct Japanese terms used to describe swords and their features which does create a very precise and economic use of language,unlike me.... I understand what you are saying about Kuniie's blades from the oshigata in Slough's book,whilst more subdued than mine I do find them appealing because he manages an organic looking hamon like in old swords. Thanks again,been most enjoyable.

I have to correct myself,the Horii Hideaki was 69cms and interesting because it had a sumi gomori in the shinogi ji just in front of the habaki,it was in original polish so must have been like that when mounted.I did write to Muroran and had a lovely reply with a copy of the entry in the family sword archives of the original oshigata. Those are interesting numbers Chris,you have viewed quite a large percentage of Kuniie's overall production,I know you like his blades but what specifically sets him apart in your view?

The only gendaito I've had of 27"+ was an Endo Nagamitsu,very elegant sword with suguha based hamon with lots of hataraki,the only gendai tosho who appears to have regularly made 69cms+ blades is Minamoto Yoshichika although the one I had was only about 64cms.It was another case of anticipation exceeding the reality,somehow it just didn't look like a nihonto,fairly featureless in my view, very clear almost muji,like looking at a pane of glass.

Chris,apologies for the delay,I'm afraid it's only 67cms,normal gunto length,3cms more would have been perfect!

Good post George,I only wish I could remember more but it was all a bit confusing at that time,I bought what I thought were interesting swords but the problem was I had no access to information on them apart from Ron's books and Hawley,I do recall that it had a fairish lateral bend in it caused no doubt by hitting something hard although the blade was not chipped or damaged. It would be great to see one posted here. BTW George,the Masatsugu is 65cms,so not far off but definitely a handy length.

Well,if I made you smile I've achieved something today! A web search SHOULD lead to these pages anyway shouldn't it?Kunitaro san's posts showed in a different search earlier today.

Guys,thank you!I don't know if it's the search engine on my laptop but all I kept seeing was 'Cheap holiday in Takayama','Buy cheap Takayama on ebay' and also the references to Taisaburo Nakayama which I already had.Thank you again.

Thank you George,I can't remember if I sent Ron the oshigata of the one I had,I corresponded with him regularly around that time and always made a point of sending an oshigata of any 'new' sword.My eye for detail and quality was not fully trained at that point of my sword career but it's interesting to hear your recollections of the blade you had in hand.

Takayama Masahiro was a kenjutsu master who taught the equivalent of Toyama-ryu to the Imperial Navy,I seem to recall reading an article somewhere about the sword that he designed as a practical combat sword but cannot track it down.I have seen oshigata of blades which include 'Takayama-to' in their mei,Hattori Masahiro who was a regular Seki-gunto kaji also made and signed these and they differ significantly in the way nakago are finished with kesho yasurime,the addition of shinobiana and information on the polisher. I have no information on the way these blades were made or if indeed it was a Navy backed project which seems unlikely when they had excellent smiths working as Kaigun-tosho. Takayama left Japan volunteering for active duty at the front,postwar he was found guilty of beheading Chinese POW. Comments,information gladly received....

One of the constant fascinations for me has been how often while studying one thing something completely different jumps off the page and demands attention,this time it was the swordsmith Rai Kunifusa. I had a sword by him many years ago but I was incapable of being able to tell if it was a true gendaito or non-traditionally made blade and my remembrance was sparked when trawling through Ron's oshigata book the other night and coming across one that had belonged to a Mr G. Trotter! Would love to hear your thoughts George or indeed anybody else familiar with this swordsmith and his work.

Many apologies,I've been off colour the last few days,I will post measurements and also the date,I will also try to take images of the polishers marks which are both under the habaki and on the mune just back of the yokote. George,I'll also post more info on Masatsugu,it has what you would describe as a 'stout' sugata and in practical terms a properly useable sword. Everyone wants big swords but as a sword to carry and use in all types of environment on a daily basis the gunto size sword is fine and equally with gunto tsuka,perfect length for one or two handed use and the menuki are in the correct position under the palm of the hand. Probably have to open a new topic as I spotted your old Rai Kunifusa in Ron's book,I had one many years ago but could find nothing on him and couldn't decide whether he made gendaito or not,it was while I was trawling for information on Takayama to that I came across it,I felt that I'd seen an article somewhere on Takayama Masahiro and the swords he designed as a kenjutsu master working as an instructor to the Imperial Navy.

Kunitaro san, Many thanks for posting the images and all the information on your sword which is a very dynamic looking blade.May I ask for some more of your time as it would be interesting and informative for us to learn about your background in the use of swords and if you belong to a particular ryu or sword club. Also on a more practical note would you be kind enough to explain what materials you use for cleaning your blade after use? Do you use ordinary uchiko or something more like finishing stone? When cutting do you bind the tsuka with anything else or just use it as it is? Sincere thanks to you for your participation.

The Japanese sword embodies not only the spirit and soul of Japan but also of all those who took up the sword for their cause from the Mongol invasion to the Nanpo kirikomi tai as well as the men (and woman?) who created so many masterpieces. It seems that over the course of time with the transition from 'jutsu' to 'do' real martial spirit and awareness of what the use of the sword entails has dissipated. Thus I find reference to 'unsharpened nihonto' and 'not getting our nihonto wet' rather ridiculous especially considering that swordsmen of old refined mae and technique by cutting raindrops and snow and Nakayama Hakudo considered cutting water the ultimate test of a swordsman's skill. I don't pretend to know all there is to know either about swords or swordsmanship but I have made every effort to achieve a rounded and informed view without restraints of dogma or politics and I would just ask that people examine their perspectives on the profound meaning of nihonto and respect it accordingly.

You are correct in that he tested swords for Kurihara Hikosaburo,the sword he mostly used was gendaito by Minamoto Yoshichika which he used on one occasion to cut through the hips of a dead pig holding the blade by the bare tang. I think this tells more about his ability and understanding of ha-suji than the sharpness of the blade but my point is that the founder of Muso Shinden ryu used a real sword that was capable of cutting NOT a zinc blade iaito or unsharpened edge. I am not a 'martial artist',I have studied Japanese swords for over thirty years and deliberately chose not to become involved in that aspect because in my mind the prevalent attitude was very shallow and restricted by both the dogma and politics that abound in martial arts. I was lucky enough to go to a good old English grammar school so academically I follow the western tradition of questioning what I see from different aspects,thus I have tried to study the Japanese sword from all possible standpoints in order to achieve the fullest understanding that I can.That has involved the entire course of Japanese history,the history of the sword itself,the use of the Japanese sword in history and examination of the martial arts where the sword is used.I have owned and used a lot of swords over the years,I've had some very good ones and some really terrible ones (who said that all nihonto are 'art swords'? Wrong!),I've cut bamboo poles and beach mats,the bamboo not the green bamboo but dry cane about 1 1/2" thick that was used for rolling carpets,I've cut myself several times but NEVER while using a sword,only when I've been fiddling about trying to sharpen or in the case of the worst cut (to the bone) trying to remove rust from a koto Fuyuhiro tanto. Part 2 to follow.

Again,I agree with you George,I have no problem with the normal gunto sugata it was just really nice to find a sword with good shape,that said the Masatsugu is quite pleasing.I've only had one Hara Okimitsu in hand,provincial saleroom and whipped off the tsuka and then slowly drew the blade,excitement building until I reached the bloody great fukure! Have taken umpteen pics trying to get Masatsugu hamon and failed miserably but here's a look anyway...

Alex, There is a reference in the To-Ken Society of GB Nihonto magazine no.8 of Autumn 1998 page 33 which is a wakizashi of 53.3 cms but the explanation goes on to say;" This is a so-called single hand use uchigatana which was in fashion in the end of the Muromachi period.The blade has saki-zori and a powerful sugata with fumbari despite being a wakizashi."

Kunitaro san,thank you for your excellent and most informative posts and please do not apologise for your English as I doubt that there are many here who could express themselves that well in Japanese. I was recently reading about your swordsmith Matsuba Kunimasa who studied under Kobayashi Yasuhiro I believe who made swords for Toshishiro Obata and whose purpose was to recreate strong blades capable of cutting well.I see that Matsuba Kunimasa has the same purpose and demonstrates his blades in cutting. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post some images of the blade and koshirae for us to see and enjoy? I also find your comments about the length of tsuka interesting as I find the normal size gunto tsuka to be good as well as the menuki being in the right place,many of the Chinese made swords have much longer tsuka which I feel are too long to use with ease. Welcome to NMB,I'm sure we will all enjoy your posts.

You're probably right about that George,I understand the humidity is intense in that region and as many gunto appear to have a protective wrap like a bandage to cover the ito and provide a better grip it wouldn't be conducive to sitting and stripping it all off to wipe the nakago. Tom Kishida's book was what enlightened me as regards the quality of Yasukunito,really excellent reference work that I've re-read several times. The Kuniie was bought in a London saleroom a couple of years ago,it was quite funny really because it was originally catalogued as a katana by Takahashi Yoshimune!I requested images and there it was,Yoshihara Kuniie,a fabulous looking sword and better than any Yoshimune I'd ever seen,so accordingly left a bid without making any comment,then the morning of the sale about 30 minutes before it went under the hammer I received a call from the auctioneer saying they had made an error and that it was by Kuniie! I just said," Yes,I know." Girl at saleroom "Oh.".So I ended up with it and like it very much indeed and can understand why you like them Chris,apart from anything else it has a great shape something that many gendaito definitely lack,it seems that while they were able to produce good jigane and hamon not many were able to produce good sugata,is that fair comment? I've added a couple of pics which were those sent at the time,my photography skills are minimal probably not helped by my cheapo digital.

Alex,there is a big difference between a sword that has become blunt through use and one that is deliberately blunted because it might be dangerous to the user.When you take the edge off a sword it is no longer a sword,it's an iron bar. Do you also consider that a zinc bladed iaito has any equivalence with a nihonto? What do you think swordsmen like Nakayama Hakudo used? Read what Taisaburo Nakamura said about iaido.

Mr Helm,the fact that the Japanese have seperate terms for those swords,only serves to reinforce the point I'm making which is that the term 'nihonto' can only apply to a traditionally made and forged sword with a functional edge,anything other than that cannot be described as nihonto. Do you not agree that it is rather disrespectful and somewhat demeaning to include a sword with a deliberately blunted edge (because someone's frightened of cutting a finger) in the same group as works by Masamune,Yoshifusa,Kanemitsu? Iaito have no relevance to nihonto,they are two distinct and seperate items just as iaido is not about swordsmanship. Of course I am not advocating the use of valuable antique swords for either kata or tameshigiri but there is no doubt that using a live,sharp blade is a great incentive to focus on correct technique.

I have to confess to being unable to appreciate Yasukunito in my earlier days and back then they were a comparative snip but in my ignorance I turned them down as being too 'ordinary'.Years later and many pages turned it's a different story and I'll take this opportunity to say a huge 'Thank You' to Chris Bowen for being a constant source of knowledge and inspiration as far as my gendaito interest is concerned and also what a pleasure it is to hear your views George. I have had some very nice swords in the past,Horii Hideaki,Mori Yoshichika and a lovely Endo Nagamitsu (cost me £400,shingunto mounts,mint original polish 68.5 cms),Horikawa Kunitake all now in other hands but currently a Yoshihara Kuniie (pic on bmoore's last Kanezane thread) and a Taguchi Masatsugu which I find fascinating because of the intricacy of the tempering.At first sight it appears to be a narrow suguha but in close it's like a row of tiny flames on a gas burner,worked in nioi and ko-nie.I cannot find an image of a recognised hamon in Hawley or any other resource to describe it but I have seen it on two other swords both by Yamaguchi Mitsuhiro (one I owned,the other was for sale in Australia),so they have in common the fact that they are both Saga smiths and also both studied under Kurihara Hikosaburo.I wonder if either of you (Chris,George) are familiar with that hamon and is it a product of the Akihide school?

Brian,the thread should be history anyway,it's beyond a joke when posters start asking about 'unsharpened nihonto',possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

So what you're saying Ken is that the Japanese don't know what they're doing?

Thomas/gunto,apologies but my fault for posting in wrong order but I think there are caps at bottom saying which is which. George I read your discussion with CAB on the merits of two different schools of gendaitosho and can see the merit in both sides,in the case of these two blades however,I have to say that I much prefer the Masafusa with a softer more organic looking hamon,I find that of the Kanetoshi in comparison a bit 'stilted' and contrived but just as well we don't all like the same thing! Despite the 'downers' ebay has and has had some decent looking gendaito to view.