La Espada Ancha

Hello and Happy New Year to all at NMB. A friend recently was given this katana by another friend of his, who's father acquired it during the occupation of Japan following WWII. He has sent me a few photographs, which I have attached below. I have requested measurements and additional photos, which I expect to have sometime over the weekend. At present, these photos are all I have to work with. And until I have and can post photos that more clearly show the katana's respective features, hopefully there is enough to see here with regards to the nakago and habakimoto to assist in determining whether these features are consistent with what one would surmise from the mei. Shinogi-zukuri, torrizori, ko-kissaki, gunome hamon, katte-agari yasurime... nagasa and sori forthcoming. Once again, I apologize if the photos are less-than-ideal, but hopefully they provide enough information for one of NHB's many astute forumites. With regards to the mei, I recognize the kanji for saku, but is it unusual to begin an inscription with this? Thank you in advance for the translation and assistance in evaluating this. Cheers, Chris

Aloha John, What a beautiful tanto, eclipsed only by the story behind its acquisition. Having been on the receiving end of some rather eclectic 'adventures' abroad, I can appreciate the sense of awe and wonder you just have felt upon learning of your agenda in Seki, and the degree to which you thoroughly enjoyed the experience... And having visitied local knife makers (here in SoCal) and having had the chance to procure examples of their work diretcly from them, I can appreciate your enthusiasm. Have you already sent a gift to be presented to Kanefusa? If not, may I recommend a bottle of Koloa rum? As a former rummy, it is my opinion it is simply the finest rum on planet Earth. It is s small-batch boutique rum bottled right there in Kauai, from their own cane IIRC. All other rum bows (deeply) before its greatness. Cheers, Chris

Hello Ian, Thank you very much for the thought, and I'll keep the thread bookmarked so as to check back for photos once you have returned. In the meantime, enjoy your holiday. Cheers, Chris

Hello Ian and (both) Jean(s), and thank you all for your input. ('Daimyo') Jean, I appreciate the correction, and I have edited the thread title to reflect as much (at least I think I did... should it be labeled simply as 'unokubi zukuri wakizashi?' if I missed the mark, please let me know and I will edit it to read more appropriately). I do have a couple thoughts on which I would appreciate your insight... First, the deep sori seems so atypical of any tanto or wakizashi I have been exposed to (which isn't saying all that much ), with a curvature that appears almost as if it might prohibit its effective use in tanto/waki form (at least relative to mu-sori or uchizori tanto?). In your opinion, is this a resulting artifact of an (exagerated?) 'homage' style? If not, then I am still left to resolve the cognitive dissonance as to why the sori would be so exagerated in what was originally made as a wakizashi... :? Second, given the descriptive nature of the efforts to quanitify and qualify blade attributes for the purpose of kantei, I guess I am surprised to hear that a sori:nagasa ratio - something that would allow for the easy quantification of the 'degree' or 'severity' of blade curvature - does not correlate to/with various schools or smiths, but then again, I learn something new everytime I visit here it seems... Ian, I was hoping I might see you contribute to the thread, what with your immense exposure to the encyclopedic collection in Leeds... While I might have encountered a Japanese trade blade in the past, I cannot recall having done so, and given the frequency with which one encounters various provincial mountings of Solingen (and in general European) trade blades through the Near and Middle East, I am fascincated by the prospect. If by chance you have the chance to post or even suggest where myself and other interested members might look for other examples available to be seen in print or curatorial collections, I would be most appreciative, and thank you in advance for the same. Cheers, Chris

Thank you both Jean and Peter for your replies. Peter, please let me express my gratitude for your helpful and most welcomed contribution, which has provided me with another 'launching point' for ethnographic investigation. It has long been inferred on another antique edged weapon forum that by corollary, a collector becomes an armchair ethnologist or historian. Having the oportunity now to learn about the Matagi is alone worth the proverbial price of admission, IMO, and for that I thank you. The downside to this illuminating discussion is that I'm now kicking myself for having removed the menuki. Fortunately, this is reversible. I now am further inclined to leave it in its current furniture, as IMO it is not worth irreversibly removing the history in order to see if I can learn more about the blade, as IMO the ends do not justify the means. Jean, I have a quick question regarding the suggested waki attribution... In your esteemed opinion, what characteristics differnetiate a unokubi-zukuri naginata from a wakizashi of similar form? Is the ratio of nagasa:sori (or the inverse) ever used to identify or attribute nihonto? Is this even recognized as a metric? I guess that makes three questions, though I guess the latter two are also directed to the forum at large...

Just as an interesting footnote to Christian's post, for those interested in the contextual history, here is the link to the Wiki page on the Red Seal Trade, the foreign trade officially sanctioned by the Tokugawa Shogunate (though its existence is documented by Hideyoshi as well): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_seal_ships Here's a map of Japanese trade routes in the 17th century from the above link: The idea of a hybrid one-off created by either a Japanese sailor or by another culture who gained possession of this through foreign trade intrigues me every bit as much as the possible Ainu attribution. With regards to a possible attribution as a trade blade deposited as a function of Japanese trade routes, I can say with a fairly high degree of confidence the hilt style does not reflect Thai/pennisular SE Asian, Javanese, Indonesian, or Filipino tastes or aesthetics - I have quite a few edged weapons from a wide sampling of cultures indigenous to these regions - leaving me to believe that if it is a product of a local culture having obtained an imported blade, it would be from a region somewhere in the Far East. I would think the use of a European-style fastener indicate the likely import of the fastener just as much as - if not more than - it might indicate the import of the blade. Just as a sidenote, the 'gestalt' of the piece originally spoke Korea to me, as while Japan didn't have a rich history of trade with Joseon dynastic Korea, they did have a rich history of military incursion. In my attempts to find examples of Ainu weaponry, I found an example that shares the similar rattan binding similarly placed on the hilt and in the use of a ferrule of similar or equal diameter to the grip. After digesting the above posts for a few hours, it would seem the answer of attribution most certainly lies in the correct stylistic attribution of the hilt. The aforementioned decorative elements - to me - speak of an East Asian aesthetic. Anyway, I hope the above comments encourage additional discussion about the piece, as I greatly enjoyed reading your collective thoughts the first time around. Cheers, Chris PS - Jean, I just noticed your post as I was previewing my own... Do you by chance still have any photographs of that dha-mounted naginata? I would very much like to see them if you do, as such cross-cultural artifacts really drive my passion for antique arms and armor, as they speak more accurately to the interwoven nature of our collective history. With regards to the existence of dha-nihonto cross breads, I would never call into question the fact they did exist, but only that they weren't common - and in fact entirely uncommon - when compared to dhas of indigenous construction. And with regards to this particular example, there is nothing stylistically to suggest the hilt was created by any of the ethnographic groups who populated present day Myanmar or Thailand.

Thank you one and all for your input. I have enjoyed reading the discussion so much I plan to sit back silently and continue learning, as it has been highly educational. I only wish I had posted this sooner, as your replies have further stoked the fires of my own intellecutal curiosity. That there are opinions this may be Ainu in origin leads me to lean towards leaving the construction as-is, at least for now, as any effort at disassembly will in all likelihood be irreversible. I rather error on the side of caution, and appreciate it as an ethnographic variant, even if it means retaining the 'mystery' of the unknown nakago. Did Japan export blades as a function of trade? If so, when (was this a result of the peace that accompanied the Edo period?), with whom, and (predominantly) where? If there is a book (or website) someone can steer me towards that addresses Japanese trade routes during the Shogunate period, I would be very grateful. I've seem/read plenty of material addressing the aesthetics of Japanese culture, and from it know there was a long and rich history of trade and cultural exchange with dynastic China. Given the predominant presence of Chinese traders throughout SE Asia, were they known to ply Japanese wares (and cast-offs) through their established trading ports? Regarding the attribution to SE Asia, I would also be very appreciative of any reference to similarly-hilted examples of imported blades, as I am familiar with Burmese and Siamese dhas and own several (about as many dha-lwes and dha-hmyaung as I own nihonto), and can't say I've ever seen a similar mounting nor an imported Japanese blade mounted in this region of SE Asia. The Kachin, Karen, Shan, and other regional ethnic groups all had ready access to ores and smiths accomplished in their own right. Thanks again one and all... Cheers, Chris

Hello, Several (4-5?) years ago I picked it up a group of pieces in LA. Among them was this. I didn't recognize it as a naginata blade at the time - nor did I recognize it as unokubi zukuri, but due to the ihori-mune, habaki, the blade geometry (to a lessor degree), and the presence of a single fastener securing the grip to the tang (indicating a mekugi ani), I was fairly certain it was Japanese (did the Koreans ever adapt the naginata form as a polearm?). Skip ahead a few years and through osmosis I now recognize a unokubi zukuri blade, so while looking for another edged weapon recently, I thought about this again and decided to revisit it. As you can see in the pictures, it is mounted in a odd mix of materials. The grip is a single piece of wood, painted black, secured through the mekugi ani with a flathead screw and a square nut. There are remnants of a foliate/vine pattern in black lacquer on the grip, visible now only on the reverse. The square nut reminds me of fasteners I see on (late) 18th C. European items as diverse as a grog cup and a ceramic urn. Behind the (very short?) habaki is a ferrule (would this still be considered a fuchi?) made of bone or ivory, decorated with gold gilt (or paint) and the same foliate pattern in black lacquer present on the grip. The diamond-shaped cutouts look like they held an insert at one time. There were two menuki, a pair of silver grasshoppers, attached with glue or resin. Neither myself nor the Mrs. remembers where they are, though I stand firmly by my assertion they have been Mrsplaced (<-- Freudian slip). There are bands of rattan (only a couple remain) and beneath that, more recent copper wire wound around the grip. Beneath the copper wire, a stag (smooth-filed bark stag) pommel caps the hilt. The top, like the ferrule, is covered in gold gilt or paint. I have never unmounted it, though I did try to loosen the screw inserted through the mekugi ani (to no avail). Not sure the following measurements are correctly labeled in this case, as I am unsure if there is a mune machi where the habaki meets the machi. But if it were, then the nagasa = 29.4 cm ( 11 9/6"). So here's my dillema: I am first and foremost an encyclopedic edged weapon collector. If this is an indigenous mounting of any appreciable age - if for whatever reason this naginata was remounted as a tanto as shown, to be used as such anytime in WWII or before - then I intend to keep it as is. If, however, it is the opinion of the board that this was the random assembly by some hack collector - much like the Soshu tanto I posted to the board last year - then I will have no qualms about drilling out that fastener and unmounting the blade. So therefore I present this for the collective input – and collective wisdom – of the members here who - unlike me - actually know a thing or two about nihonto. So is this a 'native' mount? Any information would be most appreciated. Cheers, Chris

Thank you one and all for your input... Of course I should have picked up on the absence of the hamachi being due to multiple polishes, but at least my humble attempt to suggest an era and school for the waki (I didn't have nearly enough confidence to include this in the OP) seem to be more-or-less on target. The same can not be said for the beat-up tanto-mounted naganita I plan on posting later today... Cheers to all, Chris

Hi Ken, Here are the photos of the reverse of the nakago (1) and two photos (not so great I'm afraid) of the boshi (2 & 3), both of the reverse (I'm afraid I didn't shoot the obverse). Thank you BTW for the complimentary words on the photographs. Sometimes the sword cooperates and makes it easy. Thank you as well in advance for any input you might have... as I'm about to bed down for the night here in PST, I'll look forward to revisiting the thread in the morning. Aloha & Mahalo, Chris

Hello, I recently acquired a mumei waki of which I have attached photos below… Measurements are as follows: Nagasa = 51.3cm (20 3/16") Sori = 8.7mm (11/32") Motohaba = 2.8cm (1 3/32") Sakihaba = 2cm (25/32") I cannot speak to the yasurime, as to my untrained eye it does not present clearly. Hamon (again with the caveat 'to my eye') is gunome midare on the obverse, komidare on the reverse. There are several noticeable kizu (fukure and ware), though no fatal flaws. However, a couple characteristics caught my attention. First and foremost was the differential hardening (togari?) along the mune (see last photo). Second, the munemachi seems small, and there is no hamachi as far as I can tell - would this indicate it is suriage? Anyway, I would greatly appreciate any and all input and assistance with regards to age and school, as well as any other input (the collective) you may have. Thanks & Regards, Chris

Thank you Alan for the link to similar examples, and a rather belated thank you to you, Ian for the catalog information - definitely something I would want to pursue seeing on my next trip to the UK. Regards, Chris

Hello again Ian, Thomas, and Keith, Ian, in lieu of an online reference, did the museum ever publish a catalog of the collection, and if so, might you know of where one may be found? Thomas and Keith, thank you both again for the feedback, and the design does make sense in the context of the historical period during that time in Japanese feudal history. To answer your question Keith, there is indeed a visible hamon, though given the undulation (in places significant undulation), I'm not sure I would consider it suguha - more like gunome midare IMO... Regards, Chris

Hello Ian, Keith, and Thomas... Thank you each for your respective input. Ian, I've read your bio. As someone degreed in mathematics who spent his first career in a rather tedious arm of the IT industry, I can appreciate your professional journey and eventual transition into a field more closely aligned with your own passions and interests. Is there an online reference to the aforementioned tanto? Keith, where might you suggest I look to learn more of yoroi otoshi? I'm always looking for good suggestions as to what to add next to my reference library. Thomas, thank you for the feedback with regards to a possible timeframe. If I am interpreting the preceding posts correctly, it still sounds as if there might be a considerable window during which this might have been made? Thanks again... Chris

Hello Jean, Thank you for the information. I am trying to find more information on the development of Moroha-Zukuri tanto (it is double-edged). Any suggestions? Also, would you have any idea as to a general age/timeframe? Thank you once again...

Hello, For your collective consideration: Would this tanto be considered a ken? I ask as the blade profile is not exactly symmetrical, a trait I tend to associate with ken (though based solely on what I have read). Were ken also produced that were slightly asymmetrical in blade profile (as this one is)? If so, was this interpretation associated with a given time period? Hamon appears to be notareba (or would you consider it to be gunome?). I can't discern any visible file marks on the nakago. Any input with regards to age would be greatly appreciated, as would any additional comments. Thanks in advance for the same...

Thank you Alan and Chris for the reassurance re: using acetone to remove the glue residue.

Thank you George and Piers for the translation and thank you, Chris, for the acetone suggestion. What impact (if any) will the acetone have on the patina on the nakago? Any other suggestions for loosening the glue and wood? Thanks again, Chris

Hi, I recently found locally a large tanto / small waki (nagasa = 15 inches, hira-zukuri, iorimune, chu-suguha hamon) that I am considering having polished. It is in a somewhat sorry state - a previous owner tried to sharpen it and even went as far as to create a bush league hilt in an effort to match it (in color) to the saya. :? To do this, they glued the handle to the nakago. This is the wood (and glue) remnants you see in the photo below. Can somebody please translate the mei for me? Thanks in advance for the same...

Thanks, Brian... I am looking at the photos I took of the nakago, and realize my (attempted?) assessment of the shinogi stopped at the nakago! In looking at the nakago itself, I do indeed see the uneven alignment of the shinogi. As far as the placement of the shinogi is concerned, this is something I never stopped to consider until reading your post. I just removed the kosirae from my four blades and compared the shinogi on the nakago from all four to the photos I took and see exactly what you mean. Thank you for the knowledge. I now feel comfortable qualifying my feedback when I see my friend again next week, and will bring one of my nihonto for a side-by-side comparison to demonstrate the difference. One last note on the kanji - while I have handled enough European blades to have developed a sense of gestalt when determining a piece's authenticity, I am still on that learning curve with regards to nihonto. However, the "character" of the kanji just seemed off somehow. Your collective determination has helped me incrementally increase my confidence and awareness level in this regard, and for that, I am grateful - this growth on my personal learning curve more than offsets the sense of disappointment in breaking the forthcoming bad news to a good friend.

Well, I feel fortunate to have learned at someone else's expense. Unfortunately, that "someone" is a friend of mine! Thank you Jean, et al, for your assistance. As per my OP, the offset ha-machi and mune-machi immediately caught my eye, but given my very limited exposure, I did not know if this was a "red flag," a hallmark of a given tradition/school, or simply a sign of poor quality. Sounds like the answer was "D," which reads "Both A and C." One other note - something I didn't want to add in the OP as I did not wish to influence anyone's input - when viewing the blade down the length of the blade and an acute angle, the "rippling" (I'm not sure what the correct term for this is), was not even remotely as refined as it is on my (3) nihonto, and in fact much more closely resembled my kai-gunto (handmade, but not gendaito). Hence I was thinking that maybe the nengo might date this as a Showa-era blade. But as the consensus is forming (has formed?) that it is a fake, maybe this is moot. Aside from the offset machi, what other "red flags" can I bring to his attention? The shinogi is straight, the hamon - while not leaping off the blade as it does in my few blades - appears to be the result of an actual tempering process and not etched, and the kissaki is indeed rounded... Thanks again to everyone who has been able to contribute.

Hello All, I once again humbly come in front of the forum requesting assistance. This time, however, it is on behalf of a friend of mine. Each week, I meet with a couple friends. Today, one of them brought a sword of his to show me and to ask my opinion. I took pictures of the nakago. My feeble efforts to discern a couple of the kanji using my very limited references lasted about a half-hour. I write to request any assistance the knowledgeable forum members here may be able to provide, and thank you in advance for the same. Am I correct in interpreting the province as "Echizen?" The only kanji I could decipher from the nengo is "year," and I have no confidence in either interpretation. One note - the ha-machi and mune-machi were offset from each other - something that differs from my own kai-gunto and three nihonto. Is this "normal," or does it mean I have bad news for my friend? Pictures to follow (please pardon the poor quality, as I was at my friend's house and relegated to using my camera phone):

Hello Mark, Thank you for your feedback and for sharing your knowledge and opinion. I am grateful to have acquired this, and it will be warmly appreciated in my collection. Regards, Chris

As I can see the photos when I view the thread, I'm going to go ahead and post the pictures of the hamon as seen on the reverse of the blade before I go about resizing them: Thanks again to any and all who can be of assistance.

Thanks, Jamie... I'm guess they need to be re-sized to comply with forum specs. Back to the 'shack to re-size the photos, and I'll re-post them shortly. ETA: I can see the photos I've posted when I view the thread...