Justin Grant

So Showa starts in 25? I took 26 as the starting year and added 19. So, that is why the date did not look right to me.

Without giving it away, I have the date, but it does not fit, so I am going on the assumption that I have the start date off. If someone can PM me or post the starting date, I can add the rest and continue my studies! I love this section, it really helps my learning of Japanese!

Hi Colin- I have e-mailed, but no response yet. Just checking my facts before I have a detailed conversation. Thanks! me

John- Thank you for the link. Still leaves me to question the time issue on this one. I would gather from the article that most all were lost to time, so for this one to survive would be odd. HUMMMMM

I was browsing some links on this site and was taken to a site that had a collection of tsuba, one being a leather tachi style and very nice (in my opinion). The site referenced this as a Momoyama to early Edo piece, but the research I have been able to look up reference them as mid to late Edo. Being a novice, I am looking for opinions. I love the look, just not sure on the timeline. http://www.yamabushiantiques.com/BM_Ner ... 0Tsuba.htm

Maybe I'm lost, not all that uncommon, but I have a question... Why would there be a Nichiren Shu mon on this Tokugawa supported weapon? The Tokugawa Shogunate persecuted the Nichiren Shu sect, up to and including, removing the noses and ears of the head priest and some of this followers, and putting many of them in exile. Makes it all the more strange for me. Maybe I am missing something. Justin

Edited my post with Google's version

Not perfect, but from: Babel fish http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_ur ... =Translate Parallel crosses/well curb crest It changed from the wooden uniting of the terrestrial part of the well, It is known as the crest of one person well Italy direct government of Tokugawa Ieyasu four Tenno. Small parallel crosses In circle well curb In parallel crosses chrysanthemum 　The part or the wooden uniting which has appeared in the ground of the well is called the well curb or the parallel crosses. The well was the important place which praises the water, polluting, was the place where is not good. In other words, it is thought that it reached the point where it is used from the fact that it is essential to life, as the house crest. In addition, also simple clear thing of the letter, “well” probably is suitable in the crest of the samurai. 　Natural shape of the letter of the well those which raise “the well curb” and corner are called “the parallel crosses”. In any case being something which translates into design the letter “of the well”, the Inoue Sakai Hanai scene well Ishii and the like houses have used. It is something which just displays the name letter. 　As an old record, the fact that “Bunsho description (Bunsho first year =1466 formation)” the worth normal Osamu's who is the Asakura heavily retainer child, the hardware of the gold and silver which inlays the parallel crosses of the house crest in the arms of thousand chrysanthemum circles is used, is something which is recorded. The crest of the worth person the parallel crosses has been visible even in the “knowledge house crests'. In addition the Ishii Nagai crest is recorded in the house crests, any Nagai things are the design which places the parallel crosses in Agemaki. Furthermore the well Italy of the river house crest shows spirit distantly with “the letter crest of the well” of the writing body. 　“The letter crest of the well Italy well” was changed into the geometric well curb crest afterwards. The well Italy house appeared distantly from the river national Inasa well group Italy 荘, but as for that ancestor/founder have the legend that it is it was born from the well. The well Italy 荘 it was close to the Hamana lake, there being a name well, the person utilized in many. Simply it was called “the well”, but because you call the good well, it became “[ii]” and you say that the well Italy letter was applied. 　At the time of a certain, the conversion person who holds a child appeared from in this well, put the orange on the side of a child and disappeared. The flamen of the well valley Yawata shrine was surprised to the tearful voice of the baby, raised carefully as a God giving. You say that this is the well Italy ancestor, the house crest is the origin which is made “the orange in the parallel crosses”. Dividing with the orange and the parallel crosses into two, it used afterwards as the respective house crest. Furthermore, the orange attaching the circle, has become “the orange in the circle”. 　The temple crest of the Nichiren sect as is known “in the parallel crosses the orange”, but you call the thing which is adopted from the legend, the person on Nichiren of the sect ancestor/founder well Italy tributary. As for having become the cause, the well Italy direct government which four Tenno of Ieyasu's Tokugawa is one person with the ancestor/founder of interest in the well Italy house has been converted to the Nichiren sect. What we assume that the person on Nichiren came out of well Italy, probably is attaching meeting of future. 　There was with a scene well person and Nagai in the samurai who uses the parallel crosses. These both houses had done at the adoption looking together with the worth Takeda's servant. In other words, the younger brother good fortune righteousness of scene well 昌 length, became Yosinari's Nagai adopted child. Commemorating this, piling up the letter “of the well” of both houses, as for the scene well person when “you piled up and parallel crosses” Nagai made the “group parallel crosses” it conveys. 　In addition, there is a crest which is called “to the parallel crosses the chrysanthemum”. It is known as the direct retainer of the shogun Natume's crest after that it is something which also Souseki Meiji master writer Natume uses with the 裔. But, as for the parallel crosses part of this crest originally being something which expresses the fence, “籬 ([magaki]) the chrysanthemum” is correct. The 籬 was simplified, being complicated, from the fact that it is difficult to draw, gradually finally became “the parallel crosses”. You probably can call the story which displays the phase where where the house crest keeps changing. Google's Version Curb / crest Izutsu 井戸の地上部分の木組みから転じた、 From the ground portion of the well turned wooden frame, 徳川家康四天王の一人井伊直政の紋として知られる。 Known as one of the Four crest of Tokugawa Ieyasu, Masashi Tadashi Ii. 細井桁 Hosoi digit 丸に井筒 Round Izutsu 井桁に菊 Chrysanthemum curb 井戸の地上に出ている部分、あるいはその木組みを井筒、あるいは井桁と呼んでいる。 Out of the ground portion of the well, the half-timbered or its Izutsu, are called or curb. 井戸は水をたたえた大切な場所であり、汚してはいけないところであった。 Well water is an important place tidy, but it was not dirty. つまり、生活に欠かせないことから、家紋として用いられるようになったと考えられる。 In other words, that can not live without, now considered to be used as a crest. また、「井」という字の単純明快なことも武家の紋にふさわしかったのであろう。 The "well" deserved to be the crest of the warrior character that is simple and clean also. 井の字の正体を「井筒」、隅を立てたものを「井桁」と呼んでいる。 The identity of the character well. "Izutsu", which set a corner to "curb" is called. いずれにしろ「井」の字を図案化したもので、井上・酒井・花井・駒井・石井などの諸家が用いている。 Anyway, "Well," which was a stylized character that used lesions by Inoue Sakai and Hanai, Komai Ishii. まさに名字を現わしたものである。 Which just showed up last name. 古い記録としては、朝倉氏の重臣であった甲斐常治の子、千菊丸の武具に家紋の井桁をちりばめた金銀の金物を用いるということが「文正記（文正元年＝1466成立）」に記されたものである。 As the old record, was the son of Kai Tsuneharu Asakura's senior statesman, that the use of metal studded with gold and silver armor菊丸1000 to curb the crest, "Aya Masaki (Akira Aya-approved first year 1466)" The記which was. 甲斐氏の紋は「見聞諸家紋』にも井桁とみえている。また諸家紋には石井・長井氏の紋が記され、長井氏のものは総角のなかに井桁を据えた意匠である。さらに遠江の井伊氏の家紋は筆記体の「井の字紋」で勢いを見せている。 Kai's crest is "』 observation that various family crest to curb Apparently. The crest is also noted various Ishii Nagai's crest, which Mr Nagai is among the総角design and laid the curb. More Ii's crest of the cursive Toutoumi "well shaped crest," is showing momentum. 井伊氏の「井の字紋」はのちに幾何学的な井筒紋に替えられた。 Ii's "well shaped crest" was replacing the geometric Izutsu crest later. 井伊家は遠江国引佐郡井伊荘から発祥したが、その祖は井戸から生まれたという伝説をもている。 Ii family that originated from countries Inasachō Villa Ii Toutoumi county, the father is the face of a legend was born from a well. 井伊荘は浜名湖に近く、名井があって、多くに人が利用した。 Ii Villa is close to Lake Hamana, there was a name well, many people are using. たんに「井」とよばれていたが、良い井戸というので「イイ」となり井伊の字をあてたのだという。 Liked the "well" had been called, well I say good, "Ii" he said addressing the character Nearby Ii. あるとき、この井中より一子を抱いた化人が現われ、橘を一子のわきに置いて姿を消した。 At one time, holding a child of one person appears from this井中disappeared one child put aside Tachibana. 井谷八幡宮の神主は、赤ん坊の泣き声に驚き、神授として大切に育てた。 Itani Hachiman Shinto priest was surprised to hear a baby cry, grown in importance as a divine right. これが井伊氏の祖先であり、家紋を「井桁に橘」とした由来であるという。 Ii is said that this ancestor, the crest, "Tachibana to curb" and that it is derived. のちには、橘と井桁とを二つに分けてそれぞれ家紋として用いた。 Later, each divided into two for a family crest, and curb and Tachibana. さらに橘は丸を付けて「丸に橘」となっている。 With more Tachibana Maru, "Tachibana Maru" has become. 日蓮宗の寺紋は「井桁に橘」として知られるが、宗祖の日蓮上人が井伊氏の支流という伝説から取り入れられたものという。 Nichiren sect temple crest is "to curb Tachibana" As is known, are taken from a legend that a branch of the founder Nichiren Shonin's Ii. そのもととなったのは、井伊家中興の祖で徳川家康の四天王の一人であった井伊直政が日蓮宗に帰依したことにある。 The original was so, that devotion to Nichiren in the Masa Tadashi Ii Four of Tokugawa Ieyasu was one of the founder of家中興Ii. 日蓮上人が井伊氏から出たとするのは後世の付会であろう。 Ii he had gone out to Nichiren Shonin will add to posterity. 井桁を用いた武家に駒井氏と長井氏とがあった。 Mr. Nagai was a warrior for Mr. Komai curb. この両家はともに甲斐武田の家臣で養子縁組みをしていた。 These families had servants on adoption of both Kai Takeda. つまり、駒井昌長の弟吉正が、長井吉成の養子となったのである。 That is, the length Komai Masa Masa Yoshi brother, and was adopted by Nagai Yoshinari. これを記念して両家の「井」の字を重ねて、駒井氏は「重ね井桁」長井氏は「組井桁」にしたのだと伝える。 To celebrate this the two families, "Well," repeated the words of Mr. Komai the "curb repeated" Nagai said. "Curb sets," and he was telling. また、「井桁に菊」という紋がある。 The "curb chrysanthemum" There is a crest. 旗本夏目氏の紋として知られ、その後裔で明治の文豪夏目漱石も用いたものである。 Natsume's crest Hatamoto known, is also for the descendants of the Meiji writer Natsume Soseki. しかし、この紋の井桁部分は本来垣根を表現したもので「籬(マガキ)に菊」が正しい。 However, the portion of the curb This is a representation of a crest original fence "fence (Crassostrea gigas), chrysanthemum" is correct. 籬は複雑で描きにくかったことから、次第に簡略化され、とうとう「井桁」になってしまった。 Complex and difficult to draw from the fence, was gradually simplified, at last, "curb" became. 家紋が変化していく一面を現した話といえよう。 Appeared to one side and could say about the changing the crest.

For what it is worth, the Shu version of Nichiren is seperated from the Shoshu version. I believe NST (Shoshu) uses an avairy mon of some sort. Being raised Nichiren Shu, I find this thread interesting. Justin

I actually have a bunch of Nitrogen. I use it in the air shifters and air actuated controls of the race car I own (not drive). And it is far less expensive than Argon. Let me build one and see what people think of the look. Ellettsville.... My brother owns a large far out there. I live on Lake Monroe.

I see all sides of this, but the owner of this sword thought enough of it at the time to have it repaired and I would imaging, carried it for some time post repair, and I am sure it saw continued use. Some how, family or otherwise, still held on to this blade for a considerable time considering its age before it found its way to me. Somewhere along the way, many people felt it was worthy of salvation, because if not, I am sure back in the day when it was damaged, if it was of no value, it would have been scrapped and a new blade secured. I am no oracle, I can only speculate, dream, and make my own conclusions based on what is presented to me, but many, many others before me thought this was more than a DEAD sword. This link http://www.to-ken.com/articles/Masamune.htm list a blade with several Kiri-Komi, and says such marks are "...Much Prized.... Is this true on this blade because of the other factors this blade possesses as it's provenance outside of the "flaws". I do admire the passion and conviction you all have shown, and it is all respected by me. Just trying to understand.

Moriyama-san おはようございます Thank you for the link. Very interesting! Dan- I have tons of Spanish cedar and poplar- I was going to use it to build standard tsuba display boxes. My main media is metal, but wood is just as easy for the simple stuff. I have used acrylic, used it to make a very large aquarium, but it did not cross my mind to use it for this, thanks for the memory jog! While I realize that my ideas are "overkill", the trek is most of the fun. Thank you!

I understand what you are saying, my area of the US is known for the ultra high humidity, 100+ % in the summer, or about 120+ WG PPM. The tools in my shop will rust in a period of days if not coated with something and or wiped down almost daily. The house has several large de-humidifiers to keep the house from swelling up like a tick! My thought was that if I constructed a box (material non specific), I could ensure the items in my collection were preserved from being exposed to such high amounts of water. I can see how it would be considered over the top, but then again, most of what I do is also over the top. Building a tsuba box that has had a vacuum applied, without imploding the glass, filling it with an atmosphere of inert gas, but being careful not to explode the box. Maybe it was more of the task than the service of the device. I will slip back into the shadows.. Carry on.

Paul, et al, Thanks for the replies. I know what I purchased, for what I paid for it, I knew up front that it was not a "national treasure" and I could have purchased a months worth of lunches with the money, so I am not out a bunch of money. I agree that you should collect what you like, and derive pleasure from it. If people are in this for the sole purpose of making money, I need to reevaluate my way of thinking. Sure, items may increase over time in value, and on the other side of that coin, decrease in value, it depends on the market. My thoughts (rationalization as I was directed to consider) is thus. I restore cars for a hobby, Jags, Vettes, Shelby's, and one day I came across a Shelby that was a basket case. It had been in a serious wreck on the track. Now, if you know old cars, Shelby's bring 100's of thousands of dollars and one recently sold for over a million dollars. I was advised by the "Shelby" community to leave it as it was and it would be worth more in that condition than restored, it was the provenance that made the value. Sure enough, I cleaned the bird poop and dead barn critters out of it and had collectors lined up wanting to purchase it. Today, it sits in a collection as it was found. This type of collecting can be found in most all other forms of collecting with the exclusion of this hobby or business (depending on your point of view). Were the collectors wanting to by the Shelby "rationalizing" the purchase or buying the provenance? If for example this blade was the only surviving example of a school, given the current condition, would that change the value? Would people then rationalize the purchase and placed value given the scarcity? I am not saying all "damaged" blades need to be valued, but I wonder why it is that unless it is as forged or better than new, it has low to no value. I am not kidding myself on the value, just asking why it is that this form of collecting only recognizes pristine and not the others, going as far as to exclude them from consideration. This is not a knock on anyone, I am just trying to understand, and I know there are passionate people out there, so I take it as it comes. I don't have thin skin.

Wood yes, sealed wood? By sealing the wood, it may hold, I don't know. If not, aluminum with wood clad may suffice. maybe this is only good for Tsuba and other such items.

Flaws (fatal or otherwise) or Provenance Maybe it is just a school of thought, or what your intention of collecting is, but I have a question that I would like your opinions on. Some of you have seen my sword I posted a month of so ago, and I received many comments on its age, style, etc. I sent this off to a very well respected and admired person in the Nihonto community, I will not release this persons name out of respect, as I have not asked them if I can release their name but they sent me a report on the blade. This appraisal was done with the sword in hand if that makes a difference in your opinion. The sword started out as a Tachi and was shortened. This person had the opinion that it was from the Koto era, Mihara or Kongobei schools. This sword has a Kiri-Komi and the tip has a Mizu Kage from it being reshaped (why it was shortened) and re-tempered, during this process, the temper runs off (Nioi Giri) about an inch before the new temper for the tip. It was estimated that these damages happened in battle and the owner had it repaired. It was suggested that these are fatal flaws and I can see the point of view from their side. If you are collecting and in this for the best of the best, you want only superior examples of work from the master craftsmen. But is there a school of thought that also looks at these for what they were used for? I (my personal opinion) think that the damage, repair and continued use add so much value and provenance to this blade. This is what these items were used for; battle. I see these blades as having as much value as a "pristine" blade because they show the true use and the consequence of such use. I don't know for a fact, being a novice, but I would imagine that the average Samurai would have purchased what he could afford, and like most of us today, they purchased the "Ford", "Chevy" or "Chrysler" for use, and the more financially secure purchased more "Exotic" models. So, collecting is also a reflection of this. Some collect only the best, and have the financial means to do so, others can't afford a $20,000 blade, more or less a $5,000 blade, but we can afford these battle flawed version, but it seems that we are directed not to because they are flawed. As I stated, I see value in these blades, maybe I am waxing nostalgic, but the history and battles these blades have seen make them of value, at least to me. I would be interested in what the opinions are on the collectability of battle flawed blades versus manufacturing flawed blades (blisters, etc), and the collectability of prime examples. Thank you, Justin

Ian- Sir- You bring up a point I have thought about for a few weeks. Inert gas filled storage container... I have been thinking about building a display box with, at minimum, a glass front. Placing the sword in the box, sealing it, applying vacuum, and then filling with argon gas. I would leave a vacuum/pressure gauge on it to see if it leaked over time. As a welder by education, not trade, I have access to argon, and other gases. My question would be the material to construct the box out of. Ideally it would be made of wood, but I am unsure if the wood will absorb or leak the argon over a period of time. Constructing the box of metal would render it heavy and less aesthetic. I am in the process of trying this for a Tsuba I recently purchased from Grey. The box is roughly 5" x 5", with a glass front and back. I figured the cost of materials is almost free, and just time. If this smaller box will hold the argon, I can move up the process for a sword. Sorry for hijacking the thread, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

I seem to recall a web site that chronicled the creation of a saya but have lost the link. Thought one of you might know of it. I am interested in the mechanics of the process. Thanks Justin Grant

Stephen- There is value in that opinion, and you are correct, some things are beyond a point of restoration, but preservation is also a value. As for the Yugo, mark my words, in 50 years, a Yugo restored will be worth a pretty penny. There is a history with this company, the jovial nature of the car, and the quirky nature of them will make a show piece to some collectors. What is valued today will not always equal what is valued tomorrow. When I was a kid, you could by a 65 Mustang a running shape for $2,000, today, 23 years later, that car can't be touched for under 15 -20K unrestored. Same can be said for all things that hold a modicum of value today, they will increase in value as time wears on. My point is, just because it is not worth much today does not mean it won't have a greater value tomorrow. But all things that are restored much have a foundation to build on, otherwise, leave it as is and it has value in its current state in future years as a unrestored relic, but relegating it to the scrap pile will remove it from the history books. Just my opinion.

I just received my Tsuba I purchased from him, and it was even better then the photo he sent. Thank you! Justin

I would have it polished, even if the current value of the blade (after polish) is still less than the cost of polishing. I am not sure why people feel that if the blade is not an expensive piece to start with, a polish is not a good idea. I look at this like I do restoring cars. I can put $150,000 into an old car to restore it, but I may only get $75,000 to $100,00 for it at sale. This "loss" is not that uncommon in the business, and many restoration aficionados, feel the goal is to preserve the items for the next generation., I feel the same about the swords we have today. Lets face it, there are only so many of these things out there, if people tossed each sword that was not deemed worthy, at some point, the only swords out there will be the high ticket items, and people like me, and others wont have access to them, and all of the mid to low grade "starter" versions are gone. I see it as keeping a piece of history alive for the next generation. You mileage may vary depending on how you think.

Jean- Oops. Can't believe I did that.. Uploaded this post via my cellphone and either fat fingered it or the spell check on the phone did it... Tony- Thank you. I have never seen these before. Mine are not gold, they are brass or copper, they have some green oxidation on them starting to form. I was told these are modern, sometime in the last 40 years. Thanks again guys.

Can anyone identify this mekuni? New, Older (40's) or real old? Thank you! Justin

Lets see how I do! Thanks Mark. Justin

What is the currently held belief on the use of Seppa when it comes to "restoring" a nihonto. Should they be period correct, or just material correct? In my novice trek thru this world, I have seen plenty of period correct parts to purchase, but not Seppa. Why is this? Thanks Justin