Brian

I want to use paintings as an analogy here to better illustrate the problem. You might have a very good artist that is able to copy an old master very well, to the point that only an expert can identify it as a copy. In this case, the best way to spot it ourselves is to become and expert ourselves. This just means that we have to keep studying, and the more we learn, the better we will be able to avoid these fakes. None of us will call ourselves an expert, but you get the idea. Learn more, and you will not fall into these pitfalls. The other thing, is that you don't study all the good copyist artists to try and identify their work and hence the fakes. You study the best paintings, and the copies will become apparent. Hence, don't try and study fakes so that you can identify them. Study the best swords you can, and the fakes will identify themselves. Not saying it is easy sometimes, as in this case. But when spending a lot of money, just follow the advice of buying from reputatable dealers and sellers, and you will be fine. If you are spending a lot of money with a source that is unknown, without proper validation, then you take your chances. And if it isn't a lot of money and worth taking a chance? Well...then you didn't lose too much if it was a fake. If the sword here was $100, you wouldn't lose too much. If it is $2500 or more...then refer to the advice about dealers and backups like papers/origin etc. Thanks about all I can offer. Brian

Good luck is all I can say chaps. I don't know enough about legal-speak to analyse that, but there seem to me to be a host of possible problems there. All other curved swords besides Japanese swords banned? Do I have that right? Not exemptions...but legal defences? So with a Japanese sword, with that wording, you don't have an exemption but a defence? Not the same thing afaik? All events must have public liability insurance? Am I correct reading that? So that means informal sword study groups have to take out public liability insurance? I hope someone can explain this all to me, I may have it all wrong. Watch out for old-timers who will flock to police stations to hand in their old WW2 bring-back for destruction. Not many of them care about reading the exemptions, they just go with what they are told to do. I can guarantee you there will be many old Nihonto destroyed though. Ouch. Brian Edit to add: I do see a thriving interest in tanto and shorter wakizashi coming though. Maybe that "wakizashi worth half of an identical katana" is about to change. :?

Milt, Just a thought here, but shakudo isn't black normally. It just patinas to a nice black (or the other colour variants) when treated with patina formulas. So if you cut into shakudo, you wouldn't see black, but a gold colour anyways. So you might be looking at the shakudo under the gold foil inside the cut I would think the entire tsuba was shakudo with a thin gold foil covering possibly. Will check with Ford, and clarify. Brian

I think we have proved pretty conclusively that the original statement is false. Brian

Moved to General Discussion as it is not Nihonto. What does the nakago look like? If you take good iron, and have the time and resources to forge and temper it properly, then you are going to get an item that isn't bad..and in the style of a Japanese sword. But it will never be a Nihonto because it is not made there, from tamahagane. Similar to some of the custom sword makers. Even Paul Chen claims to have a tamahagane range. But they are expensive custom swords, that are not the same as the cheap Chinese junk. And yes..they may get close to looking like a Japanese sword, but aren't. The aim of junk swords is to make money as fast as possible. The time, effort and knowledge involved in the better forged blades hopfully puts them somewhere else. But we have to keep vigilant of course. Buyer beware and all that. Brian

This is the last time I am going to ask you to sign posts with at least a first name, or initial and surname. This is a forum rule and not a suggestion. Also, if you are not going to follow through on the auction, then I suggest you end the auction now with a "item is no longer for sale" reason, instead of waiting for the auction to end. Unless you do intend to sell if someone bids? Or enjoy paying listing fees for nothing? You realise how fishy all your posts are, right? Brian

Fantastic news Grey. The Index is one of the most worthwhile resouces we have, and I am ashamed to admit I haven't got it yet. But if you can let me know if there is a source that can accept Paypal, I'll rectify that immediately. Yet another reason to be a member of the JSSUS folks (and other organisations of course) and support them in their work. It takes a lot of time and money to do this stuff. Hopefully we have some tech-savvy members who can assist with the job, I really look forward to seeing it online too. Please keep us updated. Brian

Reading that gave me a headache. :lol: Brian PS - You forgot unusual style + valid mei = true

A good read: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/d.fuller30/hada.html I actually haven't seen this page before, and at a first glace it is quite well done. Let's not debate this too much...there is a fine line (konuka? :lol: ) between them often. Brian

Milt...sometimes the work is too far from the original style to be shoshin :lol: There are limits. Style and mei doesn't match and the work seems to be too late according to Ford? Would go well with my rooster vases though Brian

Removed by eBay. Good catch! Brian

Yes, we get that. :lol: I see what Pete is saying, and agree with it in principle. He is not saying the mai is more important than the work, but they both play a part. Let's say that an important smith decided oneday to veer totally off track from his usual work. Maybe he is experimenting with a new technique, or just fooling around that day. Everybody might say that it isn't his work, as none of his usual traits are to be found. However if the mei is good enough to be his beyond most doubt, it lets us go further into examining the piece and it might be papered to him. No, we don't collect signatures, but while the "work confirms the mei" is a good and valid point, we mustn't discount the mei. That is why we have Japanese books full of mei. Otherwise you could just submit a sword that bears all the traits of a smith, and it would paper. But no..they still look at the mei to confirm the work, no? There is still a LOT of learning that we all have to do into many smith's works. Even the NBTHK says they come across undocumented smiths regularly. A mei is not by any means the way to come to a definite conclusion, but in the case of Pete's tsuba..if it was mumei, I bet that it would have gone to another smith. (Can't prove that, but there is every chance) The mei probably added to the research process, made them look at it harder, and come to that conclusion. Not all smiths made each and every sword or fitting according to a set formula, and while they have tendancies in work styles, I bet there are an awful lot of mumei swords out there that were made by good smiths working outside of their usual style. I know this can be debated to death, and there are points of mine that can be torn apart, so I should just mention this is just my opinion, and not carved in stone Work first...but don't discount the mei. Brian

Can't help thinking that if a Japanese dealer had a Kotetsu, he wouldn't sell it on eBay unless he had verified if it was shoshin or not? Somehow I can't see these guys trying something at $10K that could be worth a heck of a lot more if they put it through shinsa. A private guy who doesn't know a lot, maybe. But a regular dealer...hmmm. Brian

Dying to find out the answer, this was a good one. Any last guesses from anyone? Brian

Must say, this is not going to be an easy one to solve. As Moriyama san said, the eyes can play tricks on you, and you can start to see what you want. I do see a definite stroke where I highlighted in red. But still makes no sense to me Brian

If it was 21 June 2008 they they would have caught up any backlog, and been quite a bit ahead of their time :lol: Brian

Better to be a dork and a loser than a conman. If he doesn't know what he has, then he is just misguided. But once he knows, and has been told, and keeps up the pretense, then he shifts over to the conman league. Brian

Ah jeez... Sometimes I think they actually believe this crap. Not the first of these that I have seen that they want $100K upwards for. Someone there is telling them it is real, as the last guy here with one really believed it. *sigh* Brian

Not sure if this is the same Tsunenao, but a bit of info I found on the net: Bonhams: http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_a ... e&id=22307 http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_a ... e&id=11460 (work looks the same) http://www.artfact.com/catalog/viewLot. ... e=ZNZ4G4wo http://www.truefork.org/Photography/Tsuba_1.php (Tsuba signed by Tsunenao) Brian

:D :lol: Sorry...have to laugh. We advise Sebastian to go and buy Haynes which he does, and then the very next tsuba he buys is one of the few that isn't in there. Ironic! :D Good books to have though Sebastian. I wonder if there is anything on this school in the pdf documents I have listed in the General Discussion section? Field museum or Boston museum books? Brian Edit to add: http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.s ... ineNo=3390 Bonhams mentions on the page that in their sale (just passed) they have a namban tsuba by Ichinomiya Tsunenao. Worth looking through the catalog to find it. Could it be the same artist?

Here's a different look. Not sure if it will help at all. Brian

Danny has a brilliant article: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Mishina.html I couldn't make out that kami properly, but it seems to be Kyoto branch to me. What confuses me is that on this page: http://www.ricecracker.com/info/yoshimichi.htm they say "Only the Kyoto Tanba uses the Kiku on the nakago" and here: http://www.juwelier-strebel.de/Asien/Japan/Katana.htm they say "The Osaka branch signed almost identical, but without the Kiku." But Osaka 1st gen is listed with the kiku mon in Danny's article?? No wonder us novices get confused :? The tachi mei is unusual, so I will still go with my flyer and say there is a mei on the ura and the omote. Or not.... hehe. Brian Edit to add: I now believe this is Kyoto branch from the blown up pic, fwiw. The query above is no longer relevant then, but still confusing if you are researching Osaka Yoshimichi with a kiku?

Jock, If the mei is shoshin (no idea) and the cutting test is genuine, then I guess some would want it as an example and a study piece. You can still see everything the sword has to show, just it is not a functional item anymore. I guess if you have the money, it is a neat discussion piece. But what it is worth depends on how much extra cash you have lying around :lol: Brian

Sebastian.. Just curious. These tsuba you have are quite nice pieces, and I am sure they are not cheap. So how do you spend a few $100 or more and not know what the signature says before you buy them? I would think if I was spending $600 or $1000 or whatever, I would want to know what signature is on it first? Just wondering Brian

It has 2 hagire. No-one here is going to recommend a sword with fatal flaws unless it is really cheap and you are going to use it to study something. But at over $1000..do you want a fatally flawed blade with no real resale possibilities? Brian