Brian

Horimono could be one of those added during the war. This seems to be of the same sort that I sometimes see on wartime swords, all being very similar. Not terribly done, I suspect there was a group doing these for officers who wanted to jazz up their sword, but I have no proof. It isn't a terrible hori...like Colin says, the scales are often flat ans just cross hatched. Not top work, but we have seen a lot worse. I am not saying it IS one of these, just that it may be...maybe even a blade that was mounted for war and was later remounted. No idea, but all theories are possible I guess.

Why are we going round and round in circles? I get the feeling some are just here for the arguments. Simple fact...I said it needs closer examination. Based on a quick glance. Rayhan pointed out many things that i has not seen, and I have to agree with that. It is pretty far gone. No point trying to make out it isn't. I do NOT agree with Rayhan's "only collect the top stuff" way of collecting, but I do understand it. Top art collectors push for everyone to collect the best. Simple fact is that many of us will never have the money to collect anything TH or higher. No matter how much we save. But we are still entitled to collect at a level we enjoy. That doesn't mean top collectors have to lower their standards. I get it. I appreciate that for many, only the best is worth collectong. I don't agree with telling everyone that they must do the same. So yes...he is allowed his opinion and I understand it and respect it. But can't follow it myself. That's ok, I know the limits of my own items, and don't expect treasures. Why some get so upset at blunt honestly when it comes to evaluating poor stuff, I do not know. Just ignore it if you don't agree. By the same token, leave people to collect what they like. Advise them what they have, and the negatives...then let them do what they like. No point telling them they have trash and should throw it away. Both sides have a point. I draw the line at people getting personal though. But am distracted enough that I haven't done nearly enough moderation. Far too many collectors end up with heaps of project blade, rusted and poor quality that will never be restored. It's a bad habit and almost every time some amateur gets the job and wrecks it. Anyways, I'm trying to avoid the stress here. Guys...just chill a bit!! This is a place to relax, not jump on someone for their opinions. You gain nothing except stress. Advise people if you like. Then let them do what they want. Both sides equally at fault here, both with valid points. Can we just calm down a bit?

Thank you Steve, and to the 2 or 3 others that also took up a membership. Really do appreciate it. I'll be going through more of this over the weekend. I did add the month to month option in the subscriptions section, let's see if that is an option for anyone at $6/month. All very good feedback from everyone, and I'll consider every comment carefully.

True Sam. But the main reason for the search delays really is the hammer on the server/database, and not so much an incentive for Gold. I don't mind at all if people use Google...that hits their servers (much larger than mine) so I don't get the processor useage warnings :-) Search delays are a tiny incentive for Gold but not used for that.

Phew, a lot to unpack here, so I'll do it in several bursts as I get time. Ok....so let's start There is always the Paypal option to contribute at any time. That link is above in the DONATIONS section, and you can do it via Paypal, direct credit card (best to pm me so I can send a payment request as the processor link isn't always reliable) or even WISE now. So Gold is useful, but we do get contributions that way by a handful when they sell something else, and it comes in very handy for bills. I'll set up a monthly Gold membership for anyone who wants to do that. It is via Paypal subscription, so would likely be $5 a month, and would automatically renew monthly until someone cancels their subscription with Paypal. Thanks for the advice. Not sure what the takeup would be, or how much the fees would eat it up, but let's see. I do lose about 6% for every donation to Paypal fees. Have banned many Gold members. Contributing doesn't buy you any favours. I work on the basis that if you find the forum useful and want to contribute, go for it. But don't expect leeway if you act out. Being useful in the NMB community or having serious knowledge or having good contacts in Japan may sometimes get you some little leeway. But few know what happens behind the scenes and who gets warnings, bans etc. Most of you have no idea what happens behind the scenes. But no...contributions don't buy leeway. Never have. For me, FB is instant gratification, drowned out by a flood of incorrect info. If it wasn't for people like @Ray Singer etc giving translations and advice, it would die fast. And it is terrible at looking things up. The info posted today is gone tomorrow and searching for it is next to impossible. You can get instant answers, but if you want to research something, you come here and search 19 years of info from people who are quickly corrected if they give wrong info. I never feel like FB is a threat. The type of people that post there are not usually the ones that study much, just want to be spoon fed. It has its place. But I don't support a platform that will ban you if you post a sword for sale on Marketplace because you are some danger to society, and which hates edged weapons collectors. Translations will always be free, just maybe we need some limits or control. But it's the main advantage here. My main regret is that we don't get in enough to compensate those that freely give of their time assisting with that. I would LOVE to reward them in some way and it's always a plan. I won't mention names because I am sure to forget someone and don't want to offend, Not a bad idea. I'll look at a New Members section where we can archive useful posts, advice and maybe moderate that section stricter so that there is a gentler approach. You guys know that I work on the "blunt is best" principle when it comes to replies, and that people need to have a thick skin and if they stick around they will be fine. But maybe a section with no negative stuff and only the gentle approach would be a decent idea. Translations to be done only in that section, but basic advice for novices to be posted there and then they can be moved elsewhere if/when necessary. I'll look into that, and we would need members willing to help there that are like minded. Always considered that, and it is possible. Being in South Africa makes it a bit more difficult, and especially with all the countries present here, but it's something I have always considered. Simply because you can get free and accurate advice, in a very short space of time. Nowadays we are living in a world where every time you almost get decent info, you hit a paywall and are asked to pay for the "report" or something else. You can ask on forums, but unless those people have been there for years, how do you know if the person giving you advice has been studying for 3 weeks or 10 years? At least here you can see the person answering you has 10,000 posts and been around for years, so his advice is probably more reliable. Just watch FB, where a person posts a sword, and 5 people say "Genuine military sword" when it's obviously a fake, and the 2 or 3 people calling it out are drowned out by useless opinions from people whose exposure to swords comes from anime. Same with dealers. You search the forum, you are going to get decent accurate feedback about a dealer. And if he's a member, you know he isn't going to ghost you or con you. If that isn't worth paying $5 a month for...then I don't know. Agree with you on most of the above. Unfortunately no real report I can dig up on who posts where, but it's a fact that some will only post in one section and ignore everywhere else. Another thing that most don't know about is how many amateur dealers spend their days reaching out to novices who post, buying up their swords. I obviously don't have access to pm's, but have been made aware of how often and regularly it happens. Some build an amateur business out of doing that. Banner ads are likely going to happen. There isn't any reason not to try and use it to generate income. The question is how many dealers (both members and others out there even if they aren't members) would be willing to pay for some extra exposure. It's easy to say "Japanese dealers don't care" or "larger US/European dealers don't think it's worth it" but these comments ignore exactly how many people browse this site and aren't members. A dealer who wants to ignore several thousand weekly views and thinks it's not important really don't need the money. I have access to the figures, and us posting here are a tiny part of the people browsing, from over 32 countries. If dealers want to try clickable ads at a very fair price (still need to decide how much) then it may very well pay off for them. Another question is....do I make ads visible to everyone, or make not seeing them a perk of Gold membership? On one hand, not seeing them would be a good incentive for Gold membership. But on the other hand, advertisers would probably not want them hidden from anyone. Hmmmm

Rayhan has given reasons why he says what he says. If you don't agree...comeback with reasons. If you just post insults or anything that doesn't add to the discussion, you will get booted. Warning....don't make me delete any more comments.

The placement of the horimono does suggest atobori. I would advise against using the horimono as a feature when appraising the sword in this case.

Ray, If you look at the last pic of it, which shows it better...it's far from a perfect round circle and shows carving. Granted not the best variation of the jewel, but they usually do have a domed center piece with a nub, as this one does. Can't tell how deep it is, but certainly not a hole or drilled?

Show me their "expert" and where he studied Nihonto and tsuba manufacture methods. As far as I know, no museum has a Nihonto expert on board aside from Marcus, and their "experts" are at the level of the mid level member here. Not like they have access to info we don't have. In fact, probably far less.

Search intervals are VERY resource intensive on the database and short search delays really do up the server use, so most forums have a decent interval to prevent hammering the processor. But yes..the short delay for Gold members is a big advantage. So that is a tool I rely on to make Gold more attractive. It's a necessary evil. I have seriously considered a Gold member area where we can post shoshin examples of swords and tosogu that are verified. In fact, it's partially set up, but invisible. The idea would be to have it alphabetically by smith name, and it would have to grown constantly. I know it would be a great resource, but very admin intensive. Yes..regular members would moan, but for $5 a month...if you can't afford that they you shouldn't be collecting Nihonto. But I see that as more of a future goal. As for private areas, it would more be for organizations and clubs, to have a place where their members can interact. Yes..there would be some discussion there that could benefit other members, but that's how a club works. Surely JSSUS or NCJSC etc wouldn't mind having a private area for their members to announce events, discuss them etc etc. They could have access to grant access to whoever they like. Costs would need to be discussed, either paid by members or the club. Translation section...that is a tricky one. I think we have the best Nihonto translation resource here in the world. Fast, free and usually spot on. I don't want to monetize that, but maybe a person should at least have 2-5 posts before they can use it, otherwise we have the hit-and-run members and dealers using it recklessly for profit. But that doesn't monetize it and I don't think we want to either. It's a big perk of this forum. Galleries....we have access to member galleries etc. It's a powerful feature we aren't using. Having your own gallery for your collection or to show others would be do-able if there is interest. There is a lot that can be done with that, and I can look at having that added to Gold membership if there is some use there.

Pity. I have replaced it with a different one for now, thanks.

There are no plans for that and there will always be free listing of items for sale, and the ability to look at the ads. However we need to look at people who list dozens of items regularly and never contribute. There is a limit. Not many of them, most here are decent people who are happy to contribute. Those that participate in the Nihonto community regularly and profusely are the ones who most likely find advantage in not having to clear out their pm folder as often, or watch their posting limits. I may have to look at those limits a bit. However the majority of features will always remain free. I do intend to look at some small Nihonto-related banner ads if I can find the time to work out the coding. These may be one way to bring in funds. I don't have to mention how convenient it is to have a forum that allows free uploading. The fact that we have several hundred thousand attachments bears that out. Most places have strict limits, and the longer we continue, the more we need to increase web space. It would be easy to set up Gold-only sections for certain discussions, but I know that would cause a riot.i Another possibility (but only if I have support for it) is that this software has the ability to set up "clubs" with private access where say an organization or area of collectors can have their own private place with their own members. This is popular with other forums. So for example a Midwest Token Kai can have their own password protected or member-added section where they can do as they please. In an ideal world, some of the Japanese dealers who do so well with the Western market would contribute. I know for a fact they get huge numbers of sales from discussions and promo here. But they are still old school and getting them on board with that isn't easy. Appreciate all the feedback, will get back to the one or 2 that messaged me as soon as I have time.

Oh, just want to clarify, there are no thoughts of increasing Gold membership fees. My intention is to try and increase numbers. At $5/month, I think people are getting a bargain. But based on the lack of any response, doesn't seem like there is much motivation or interest. Would have to have to limit free sales listings or consider some form of income from that beyond the current voluntary. But if no-one has any interest or suggestions I am going to have to give some thought as to how to raise some funds. We're going slightly backwards, and while it isn't uncomfortable right now, I don't want to have to stress later.

in SA, you have to do some pre-notification to make them aware it's coming back and avoid import duties. I know this for cameras and other expensive items you take overseas. I expect there's a similar procedure that side.

Sometimes a sword gives off "has possibilities" vibes and makes you think it's worth putting decent effort into looking further at it. This is one.

Just a question for you guys out there. Really could use a bit of an income boost here, and with Paypal preventing raffles etc, the easiest way is to increase the Gold Memberships here: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/subscriptions/ My question to you guys...both current Gold members, and non members is, what features would you like to see offered in Gold membership that would either convince you to renew your membership, or those that aren't, convince you to take up a membership? We currently offer a bunch of advantages such as increased pm limits, editing time, daily posts, reduced search delay time, posting size limits, commercial signature link (gonna have to crack down on that one) and other features. Are there other features that would sway you? Are the current limits enough or would you like any of those increased? A section available only to Gold members? Maybe with shoshin signatures or a private chat area? Or anything else that the software is capable of? The upcoming software update will have a lot more features, and there will also be exclusive Gold member themes/color schemes and other things. There are a ton of features we don't use. I don't want to lock non-Gold members out of any useful downloads, or resources we have currently. Would like to remain limit free on sales listings. But would really help all of these if we can come up with some way to increase interest in Gold. Let's hear your ideas, if they are possible and don't take a huge amount of admin time, I'll consider them.

Kozuka in the Ishiguro style...

I have no defense Somehow that whole sentence got scrambled. I have edited and fixed it.

WW2 souvenir or general soldier's tanto, or made for sale to soldiers just after the war. The nakago is crudely shaped. Not traditionally made, but Japanese. Could be the front part of a repurposed broken longer sword, but nakago is crudely shaped. Likely of interest to a WW2 militaria collector in the low few hundreds of $'s.

@Matsunoki @paulb Know of anything?

Lack of a stamp doesn't indicate Gendaito, but presence of one indicates Showato. When getting a military sword, you have to assume an "arsenal" type blade no matter if there is a stamp or not. Only when you look at the hamon and hada can you start thinking it may be better. If you have activity and hada, you can then start suspecting water quenched and/or forged. Without those, forget about what the mei tells you. But in this case, even the mei looks like a classic Seki Showato. Maybe with some additional processes in the forging, but nothing there points towards Gendaito.

This is how it ended up. Does it look correct?

Based on that hamon, I do not. Looks like a typical wartime oil quenched hamon to me. Just an opinion.

I doubt it.

It is not unusual for Kyu-Gunto to be fitted with older blades using this method, by threading the back part of the nakago. A known method. Looks like a nice blade, well signed.