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Hey all, Just picked up this nice Hirata school tsuba. Any thoughts to which generation? 7.62 x 7.14cm.

I'm going to make a combination of them, good luck to me

Armstrong Detroit Mich- The E.A. Armstrong Company was a noted 19th-century manufacturer of fraternal and military regalia based in Detroit, Michigan, often producing Masonic Knights Templar swords. Items with this marking are typically American-made, not Japanese, frequently featuring ornate designs and engraved names from the late 1800s. Does the sword, from the early Edo period, bear an etching of the E.A. Armstrong company from the late 19th century?

Not something you see every day. NBTHK papered Mogusa tachi from the late Heian period. Almost 80cm https://eirakudo.shop/651823/

Hell....you'll get a far better appraisal here for free :-) And trust me, if Ray says something, you can take that as fact 99% of the time

Hi Darin, not sure if this is the sword you intended to post but it is not a blade by Ichihara Nagamitsu nor is it signed Bizen Osafune jū Nagamitsu saku. The mei is Bushu Edo Echizen ju Yasutsugu and appears to be a Shinto blade, from the early part of the Edo period.

It’s not about swords, but… Nishiōeda’s handwriting is really clean and easy to read.（I think I’m getting tired of unreadable handwriting lol） He is said to have served as a clerical staff member [contract employee] at the Forestry Economics Research Institute in 1952. He died in 1958.

Ron, TACHI-MEI looks like KANEKADO to me. MEKUGI-ANA do not have the burrs removed which may indicate a late manufacture. The KOSHIRA-E (not Koshirai) would possibly confirm young age.

Hi Ron, please see below. 兼門 - Kanekado 善定 - Yoshisada

Singer sensei knows his stuff and generously shares his knowledge with the rest of us.

In all seriousness, if you paid someone to appraise your sword and they told you that it was a WWII era blade by Ichihara Nagamitsu and signed Bizen Osafune ju Nagamitsu saku you should ask for your money back. See below. On the left is an inscription by Ichihara Nagamitsu. On the right is an inscription by first generation Yasutsugu. Compare the kanji with what is inscribed on your sword. |

Seen on Haynes

Based on the other photos and their written description, I would say it's yubashiri that forms in long bands resembling a heavy utsuri or a nijuba. You also see this on Soshu blades in Masamune's generation, albeit somewhat more elegantly done.

Beautiful Tsuba with shoki. Whats on the backside a little oni?

Wow Chen! - Great pieces! I especially like the large tsuba in the first image. Welcome to NMB

$20 on the George Trotter book.

On another level, but in the Meiji period there was a man called Yasunosuke from the Kyoto Ryubundo foundry of Tetsubin iron kettles who specialized in bronze articulated insects. Quite heavy in the hand. These will not break the bank but if anyone ever finds one, go for it! They are collectors’ pieces nowadays. 安の介

Sorry can’t answer the question just want to say what a great piece that is. Well done sir !

Jeff, in a true ICHIMAI BOSHI, you will not see a HAMON. In most cases, the HAMON will be getting wider towards the YOKOTE so that it fills the width of the JI. I have a blade with ICHIMAI BOSHI, but it is difficult to catch in a photo. Maybe I can try tomorrow. You wrote;....is it always apparent in the topology of the metal as to how it was tempered.... TEMPERING is not HARDENING! Tempering (YAKIMODOSHI in Japanese) does not produce a HAMON, but hardening through quenching (= YAKIIRE) in water does.

Take this opportunity to thank those people [Bruce, Marcin, John C and Brian & so many others] who freely and tirelessly give their time and expertise to assist others. I know you don't do it for the recognition or the thanks but sometimes and quick 'thanks' or even acknowledgment is nice.

The polish is just rough. The boshi is pretty clear in this one photo.

Certainly the lower hole has removed the right foot of 門

Jo James, They are looking for a bare blade photo with the following measurements: Also, a couple close shots of the blade body showing hamon (temper pattern) and blade tip are helpful.

A few more pictures

Found a photo of the whole thing posted by a guy named Willy. The reading/meaning hasn't changed. Its the Chinese zodiac name for the year 1660 ("Kanoe-ne", or year of the "metal rat").

I think I paid too much? Shoami Yoshihisa 32,000 yen.

I was wondering who ‘Nishioeda Yutaka’ was… it turns out it’s this person! Nishiōeda Yutaka（西大條 胖 or 西大条 胖） 西大條 胖 wiki-page (Japanese language only) (You might not need this, but …I’m writing this as a note for anyone may read this.） Hiro

Look like 近江守助直 Omi no Kami Sukenao for the smith For the date... hard to read the first two... XX十一年二月吉日 (a lucky day in February, 11 years of XX period) Could be an attempt for Kanbun (but I could be wrong). If it is the case, it would place it in 1671. For reference : https://www.samuraimuseum.jp/shop/product/antique-Japanese-sword-katana-signed-by-sukenaonbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-certificate/?srsltid=AfmBOoqFBzvIQqRvZLHIVuerSmz8gYmMQlPAFpromZ5KjQ6AnIzs8klC

Couple more

Date looks like MANJI SAN NEN ROKU GATSU ROKU HI In my opinion, translation requests without the slightest politeness formula like: Can anyone here please help me with the translation? should be charged with $ 50.--

thx,that's another tree on the back😓

Strangely the most useful tool in my workshop is possibly a toothpick, the very same one that I have already used for tweaking so many little jobs! Two Sundays ago one of our matchlock troop showed me some photos of a zunari kabuto that he is restoring. He has rubbed it all down to a base in preparation for a lacquer coating. One of the wakidaté side tsunomoto was missing so he has created a new one for it, and that too will be covered in lacquer. I expressed amazement at his courage and ability in attempting such a challenging job! Thinking about that later, and conscious of this thread, I then decided to take a box of restored powder flasks to our latest meet on Sunday April the 12th. They all crowded round as I set them the challenge of finding which parts were original and which bits were restorations. In the beginning no one found anything, and even real old parts were questioned, but gradually as they got their eyes in (with a little help from me!) they started spotting things. Some cheeky questions bubbled up like “If we get the right answer, can we keep them?”

As Kevin wrote above. There are many blades showing fine fissures on the MUNE, and some collectors are afraid that this might be flaws. But it is just a welding-seam on blades where the SHINGANE has not been encapsulated completely. This is done on purpose to leave the MUNE somewhat softer than the rest of the blade to block or deflect an opponent's strike. Comimg back to ICHIMAI-BOSHI, this is a feature that has mostly to do with TSUCHI-OKI (= application of clay before quenching/YAKI IRE). As described above, you can create a fully hardened KISSAKI by widening the YAKIBA when it comes close to the YOKOTE. Often in this case, the HAMON makes a more or less sharp turn back so it does not appear in the KISSAKI. Depending on the polish, you would not always identify an ICHIMAI BOSHI by looking at the MUNE, but if the TOGISHI used HADORI, this could be more obvious.

Thank you Marius. Some great looking books! I'll get it started off. I'd like to bid on the following: $50 - "2. Ikebana, Japanese Flower Arrangement, John March-Penney" $50 - "3. Japanese Dandyism: Samurai, Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography"

Here on the Nihonto Message Board, we are commited to the study and preservation of genuine Japanese swords and fittings. We do not condone or encourage DIY restorations or polishing. As with any antique or culturally important item; it's really important that you do not damage history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_(García_Martínez_and_Giménez) It takes an extremely specific skill-set, that's earned over years of apprenticeship with a qualified togishi. If you were unable to identify the blade or translate the signature, you are definitely not qualified to "grind" at a potentially 500 year old antique Japanese sword... Sincerely, -Sam

I just received this tsuba Sure, I spotted the problems. But I was wondering just how fine, can people weld cracks these days? The hitsu has two cracks probably as a result of damage and why the rim was removed. The fan with the missing "sticks" is bent slightly out of the plain of the rest of the guard. I don't think it can be straightened without the risk of breaking it from the guard entirely. Worth a try or leave it alone? Just a cheap "novelty" buy so no big deal.

Micro-welding can also be done by goldsmiths with a very small, very hot hydrogen-oxygen flame welding apparatus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEX5xpKuhUw Dale, in your case, you might also have the missing MIMI of this TSUBA re-installed!

Paul, nice find. Thought you might like to see what Markus wrote about this 2nd Gen Kanesada. Interesting story and name evolution that fits with the 1684 date. KANESADA (包貞), 2nd gen., Enpō (延宝, 1673-1681), Settsu – “Sesshū Gorō Terukane” (摂州五郎輝包), “Echigo no Kami Kanesada” (越後守包貞), “Sakakura Gonnoshin Terukane – Echigo no Kami Kanesada kore o dōsaku” (坂倉言之進照包・越後守包貞同作, “joint work of Sakakura Gonnoshin Terukane and Echigo no Kami Kanesada”), “Sakakura Minamoto Terukane kore o saku – Echigo no Kami Kanesada” (坂倉源照包作之・ 越後守包貞同作), “Sakakura Gonnoshin Terukane – Echigo no Kami Kanesada inkyo” (坂倉言之進照包・越後守 包貞隠居, “joint work of Sakakura Gonnoshin Terukane with the retired Echigo no Kami Kanesada”), “Sakakura Gonnoshin Terukane” (坂倉言之進照包), “Sakakura Echigo no Kami Terukane” (坂倉越後守照包), “Terukane saku” (照包作), real name Sakakura Gonnoshin (坂倉言之進), he came originally from Mino where he had been a student of Terukado (照門) who was active around Manji (万治, 1658-1661), later he went to Ōsaka to study under the 1st gen. Echigo no Kami Kanesada (= Yamada Heidayū), first he signed his name Terukane with the characters (輝包), he was eventually adopted by the 1st gen. Kanesada and signed from the second month of the sixth year of Kanbun (寛文, 1666) with “Echigo no Kami Kanesada” too, when Iwamatsu (岩松), the natural son of the 1st gen. Kanesada came of age in the first half of the seventh year of Enpō (1679), it was Iwamatsu who took over the name Kanesada (包貞) and “Gonnoshin-Kanesada” had again to sign with “Itakura Gonnoshin Terukane”, this return to the name of Terukane can be dated to the second month of the eighth year of Enpō (1680), but from the second month of Tenna four (天和, 1684) onwards he once again added the honorary title Echigo no Kami in the form “Sakakura Echigo no Kami Terukane” to his signatures, one theory says that he officially received this title in Tenna four and that he had signed it before as a kind of trademark that he had taken over from his master and father-in-law, he made blades in Yamato-style with a wide shinogi-ji and a high shinogi, the jigane is a dense and finely forged ko-itame with masame in the shinogi-ji, the hamon is mostly a gunome-midare, chōji-midare or tōran-midare, sometimes he also applied a suguha or ō-notare, in his early years he tempered mostly a chōji-midare, from the time when he signed again with Terukane he focused on a tōran-midare in the style of Sukehiro (助広) whereas the valleys of the yakiba have a striped appearance because of the hakikake, he was superior in quality than the 1st gen. Kanesada, ō-wazamono, jōjō-saku

Thank you all for the help - I think some lessons are learned the hard way. The condition of it should have been an indicator that it was not an authentic production. I really regret not choosing another tsuba as certainly there were some much older tsuba that were being sold at a similar price, and it should have been a red flag that the seller could offer any information on a lot of the tsuba. This was the first tsuba I handled and I think there was something very satisfying about the weight, that I let sway me. I almost certainly overpaid for it and it stings a bit - but I will use it as a learning experience to shop for another tsuba. If I were to start visiting antique sword shops around Tokyo what is a safe criteria to have when making a purchase - after a little research it seems like a traceable signature and Hozon Tosogu certificate would be a much safer bet. Thank you again -Kent

Does anyone have access to the Ashmolean Museum and a drill press? https://images.ashmolean.org/search/?searchQuery=EAX.5604

After some serious brow furrowing I dug up the small article on Lt General Nishieoda's sword, it appears in the Token Society of Great Britain Programme vol. 71. https://to-ken.uk/onewebmedia/Programme 71 November-December 1972.pdf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/147156846123? John C.

Those fittings are definitely Meiji period export type mounts.

@Bruce Pennington my understanding with both NA and KO stamps: Na / Ho (名/ホ): externally made blades collected by Nagoya inspectors, then delivered to Kokura Arsenal, and “processed” presumably polished, in Factory No.1. Often sent elsewhere for mounting. This stamp combination started late 1941, peaked in 1942, and declined in 1943 and not seen in 1944.

The sides each have different information and are not read sequentially. Hizen (no) kuni junin Yoshitada saku kore The other side converts to a date of May, 1942 (the fifth month of the 2,602nd year of the founding of the empire)

The mei reads 備州長舩盛家 - Bishu Osafune Mori'ie.

Bruce: Just a general note about the attribution of population growth and/or decline. So many factors usually contribute to such events that it is alway difficult to list just a few. For example, the Tenmei famine of the 1780s and the Tenpo famine of the 1830s probably accounted for quite a bit of decline in the overall health and height of the population. Not discounting their research (since I haven't read it), just noting that other contributing factors may also be notable. John C.

John, are you sure that rays are depicted on your JINGASA? I believe it could also be symbolized KEN blades. SUHAMA MON on TSUBA:

I had the opportunity to look at several exhibits, up close