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Alex Nothing to do with “will it paper, will it not….” This is about an intellectual debate, curiosity and an interesting topic. I am not at all fixated on whether it will paper. It is much more interesting to exchange advanced opinions about the mei, the shape of the nakago, the workmanship, the yasurime and so on, coming from different contributors such as Jacques, Chris, Jussi, Reinhard, Kiril etc. This is one of the more intellectual threads which are right “on topic” of this forum, the type of which we are craving, as opposed to political bickering in the izakaya or whether the world is going to its end due to fossil fuels and overconsumption or whether we should be sad or happy…. I personally feel that either because of ennui or dearth of captivating sword/ tosogu mainstay topics like this one, a lot of us are spending time wrangling on other “life” topics, which are actually probably best left to their own…. So, I am grateful to Lewis or HB (not sure about best way to address him) for bringing this challenge here. Lots of question marks and uncertainties and that is what makes it interesting.

I've never seen a gunto with a leather covered saya with fittings: https://www.jauce.com/auction/e1192352718?allow=1 It seems like the leather shrank over the year, and split from the kojiri at the tip.

It is not exactly that the shinsa team went as far as they could with research and gave up undecided. The specific history here with this sword is the NBTHK said to resubmit after restoration. That is what was conveyed by the organization to the previous owner at that time. Polish and submit again, which at least to me implies that they felt there was merit in the mei and that they wanted to evaluate the deki as well. Also, a factor in whether a sword passes shinsa is condition and this one was already in a compromised state, even before restoration. The hamon is weak or gone in the lower half of the blade, and the dealer photos showed the hamon to be thin and drop off the ha at the midpoint. Description and link are below. https://web.archive.org/web/20210727192426/https://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/tantou/210/00.html 新藤五國光（しんとうごくにみつ）は鎌倉鍛冶相州伝の始祖となった刀工で、相州正宗の師として大変著名な刀工。最古の年紀としては永仁元年（1293）のものがある。現存する作品の殆どが国宝や重要文化財、重要美術品に指定されており、なかなか市場ではお目にかかれません。 この短刀は2018年6月の日本美術刀剣保存協会保存刀剣審査に於いて『銘に研究の余地あり』として保留となった品で、「常に見る銘とは些か雰囲気が異なるも、偽銘と判断するには決め手にかける。」と言う審査結果です。 今回、残念ながら正真としてのお墨付きは頂けませんでしたが、今後の銘文研究の進展に期待したい。 時代が古い短刀だけあって、刃区から刀身中程迄は研ぎ減りによって匂口が駆け出していますが、中程から先にかけては細直刃健在で、帽子の返りもしっかりと残っています。 現状古研ぎのため、数多のヒケによって地刃の写真撮影が難しく、この短刀の良さを存分にお伝えできないのが残念ですが、地鉄は精良で判然たる映りが立っており、細直刃の匂口も明るく冴えています。 この短刀には保存状態が良い梨地塗りの鞘が附属しており、柄前さえ新調すればすぐに拵として蘇らせることが可能です。栗形はまた、鞘にはこの短刀について書かれた古書が貼り付けてあり、新藤五國光、粟田口、相州正宗の文字が読み取れます。 はばきには日月の透かしが施されており、今は失われてしまった柄前にも、それは豪華な金具が用いられていたであろうことは想像に難くありません。 然るべき腕達者な研師に駆け出し部分の繕いも併せて研磨依頼し、柄前を新調して大切に次代に引き継いで頂きたく思います。 裸身重量91グラム。 ※この短刀は委託品です。2018年6月の審査で保留の結果が出されたことは当店でも確認済みですのでご安心ください。委託販売依頼者との橋渡しをさせて頂きますので、お気になられた方は希望購入価格を当店へお知らせ下さい。仲介させて頂きます。 各種クレジットカード、セディナショッピングローンによる分割購入も承っております。お気軽にお申し付け下さい。

Well that dealer is no fool, and with a good bit of the description advising the Koshirae be restored doesn't exactly fill one with confidence for the dagger itself. Perhaps I'm not as romantic as Lewis here but it would've been childs play for Machii San to open a window to check the deki and resubmit. Nevertheless it has been a very interesting thread and we all are hoping for a good result.

Hi @Tyler sword, welcome to the forum, I have deleted the posts of your sword from the others threads. We don't want to remove focus from other people's discussions. I've left this post you've created for your sword, so the info can be consolidated here. @Ray Singer and @Rawathat included one of your replies on those threads, I hope you do not mind. Apologies for any confusion. All the best, -Sam

This article below will help you identify such pieces and avoid them in the future. https://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

As mentioned, this is not an authentic Japanese sword (or Japanese mei to be translated). It is unfortunately a Chinese fake.

Truly works of art @Curran

Hello everyone, Thank you for the positive support on the first article, I sincerely appreciate it. I've decided to test the waters and gauge interest in a series of in-depth articles on the grandmasters of Nihonto. This ties into a contentious question which is endlessly engaging for enthusiasts. Who was the greatest maker of Japanese swords in history? Of course, there are many valid answers to this question, but reaching an informed perspective requires knowledge. Much of that knowledge is rather arcane and not readily available in the West. As for the format, it's an attempt to strike a delicate balance between casual storytelling and academic rigor. As you can imagine, collecting data and sources for these articles is a tremendous effort, and this work wouldn't have been possible without the invaluable help of many friends in the field. You know who you are, thank you. I'll be refining the format over time, so if you find it borderline impenetrable or confusing, please let me know, and I'll tune the style going forward. This is a first draft, and I plan to keep it as a living document, updating it as needed. If you have high-quality material on Mitsutada blades—such as beautiful photos—to share and enrich the article, feel free to send me a PM. I'll be sure to credit you as the source. In the same spirit, there are bound to be mistakes that need corrections, along with typos and the like. Any help with polishing is most welcome. Here's the article: https://nihontology.substack.com/p/grandmaster-mitsutada If you're genuinely interested, share with friends in the hobby and encourage them to subscribe, it will encourage me to move forward with this work! I sincerely hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed researching, Hoshi

Thank you for this scholarly gift. You are carrying on Darcy's tradition.

Hi Tyler, you are in the wrong section. We have the introductions here, but you probably wanted to go to the translation section. But as we are at it: It is not a Japanese signature, and, judging by the shape and surface of the NAKAGO, it is not a Japanese sword. But to be sure, you may show the rest of the blade as well (tip-upwards, dark background, especially the full NAKAGO without HABAKI). Sorry for you if you paid serious money (more than $ 30 - 50.--) for it!

I suspect this tsuba is higo and dates to the late edo period. It's the typical 3 pine design with very nice deep black iron. It's big thick solid tsuba and looks good mounted. 79 x 77 x 6mm Comes with the tsuba box pictured. SOLD

As much as I enjoy Asian art of all mediums, I am much more of an amateur genealogist than a collector. My passion is in finding where my ancestors came from and their stories along the way. This sword and silk painting are just a small blip on the map of my family’s story and in my opinion never truly belonged to them other than the fact that my uncle was on midway island. No disrespect for military collectors, it’s just not sentimental to me in a way that some things are that directly tell a part of my family’s history. I have a deep respect for Japanese culture and art and find it very interesting, but I am not financially stable enough to collect any of it. Especially recently as I have been on disability due to medical issues. I was asking because I was curious about not only the value, but the history behind the sword. I’m not sure if I want to sell it currently, but I would love for it to go to someone like the kind folks I’ve conversed with on this forum. I know anyone on here would care for it and respect it and appreciate as much as I have and even more. Thank you for the information you’ve shared. I was really stumped about the black saya. Sounds like a lot of folks are as well 😂

Amazing

Its just that they have it hands with all their references next to them and still were undecided. Guys here from images with the emphasis on the mei. Who knows though, a fresh shinsa may come to an agreeable opinion.

That is exceptional work, very clean and precise. I would love to pick your brain in the future if I ever attempt this.

It has very sharp, well defined hamon contours, as if drawn with a pencil. Really old "ashi" tend not to looks this way, this is more like Bungo.

Hi Charles! I think a lot of us would appreciate seeing shots of the nakago. Is that possible? Yes, it is legit. Commonly called the Type 3 in the collector world. It was designed in 1938 and hit the streets in 1940. Didn't seem to become popular until '43/'44 and later, though, hence the impression is was late war sword. You can read all about them in these articles: Real Significance of the Type 3 - Nick Komiya, Warrelics Unveiling the Rinjiseishiki Sword in 1940 - Nick Komiya, Warrelics

Hi Willi, Don't be in a hurry to buy; good swords will always be available and the more you know before you buy the happier you will be when you do. If you insist on purchasing a sword as a beginner you need an unusually honest dealer. Grey

Also if you have an idea about what you're looking to buy - you can always post in the 'wanted to buy' section. It's often easier doing deals 1 on 1 with people. Obviously you need to validate if the price is acceptable, but you need to do that with shops just the same. And shops usually have a high markup. In any case you've come to the right place. This is the biggest online nihonto forum and a lot of people here are very helpful. You'll get the odd remark every now and then, but please try to see past that, at heart we're a friendly bunch. If you don't know that much about nihonto and you are a bit concerned about resell value, I would opt for NBTHK papers. That will give you some reassurance about authenticity. The bigger the nametag without papers, the larger the chance it's not what it's portraying to be.

Not sure why you have gone off on a tangent Michael, what happens in the "general" thread has nothing to do with Nihonto Wise enough to know no one here can make judgements that matter on that blade, no matter what names you throw in to the mix, the only one being Jussi who i do have some kind of respect for as gets off his ass to to offer something new. Obviously, you can discuss the blade and offer opinions, but that wont further the blade as your opinions are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and add no value, such as NBTHK papers. (sorry but that's just realistic, no talk here will add any value or authenticity, it is what it is and sadly, knowledge and references don't equal that of nbthk) Throwing the term around "Intellectual" doesn't really assist in your pursuit. You saying this conversation is above me or something? Personally, not bothered. Know enough to know you guys wont match the NBTHK , especially in images, Jacques will attest to that. Good night, God bless. ps, made a polite point but obviously brushed some feathers, for reasons i cant be assed with Weird, i guess some folks think they know better.