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Hi Everyone, I was pleasantly surprised 30 minutes ago by a ring on my doorbell from the USPS, with what looked to be a very long box. Lo and behold, my shingunto surprisingly made it to my doorstep, despite the USPS tracking data showing no updates. Inside, there was "US Fish and Wildlife" tape all over the contents, and for some reason, it seems like the fish and wildlife department had my sword for 2 weeks. Not sure why that was so, and I'm just glad that the sword made it to me in one piece.

Been a bit busy lately so just reading this for the first time. Japanese without question (all parts), as others have said above, but using Classical Chinese, just as Europeans might once have quoted ancient Latin or Greek.

It’s always worth remembering that a huge slice of Japanese art and imagery (of any variety from all periods) has been borrowed from or loosely based on earlier Chinese art/history. That includes religious figures, legends, general art styles and subjects etc That can be very confusing at times but the usual giveaway is the unique aesthetic that the Japanese bring to art. It is different to Chinese but takes a while to recognise. Also the Japanese pay meticulous attention to detail. A good example is to compare Japanese netsuke with the modern Chinese stuff. Same applies with tsuba. Even very well carved Chinese pieces are artistically totally different. it is difficult toexplain but Japanese often has a “softness” to it.

Hi! This reads 遠州横須賀住一帯子國安 文政五年月日 抜則砕敵蔵則安国. 抜(to draw)則(then)砕(to crush)敵(enemy), 蔵(to conceal, in the context to sheath?)則(then)安(peace, or to make peace)国(nation, country) means "crushing the enemy when drawn out, secure/protect the country when sheathed/kept away". It's written in Chinese, kind of like Latin to Edo Japan. Not a known proverb, and structured and worded in a way that a Japanese reader can read this after a minimum shuffling of the wording to 抜則敵砕 蔵則国安.

Hmm... The first one is 若无(無 in cursive)清風吹，香氣为(為 in cursive)誰發, part of the poem 古風·孤蘭生幽園 by 李白 Li Bai of the Tang dynasty. Gemini suggested "If no gentle breeze blows, for whom would the fragrance spread?", feels close enough I guess! (Edited again: This is quite a poem upon a second read! One of the most classic themes recurring throughout Chinese poetry history, that is not being appreciated in one's own time for their talent. This poem was written in the autumn of the second year that Li Bai (arguably THE greatest Chinese poet ever) was called to the capital by the emperor himself, one of the greatest honors and dream of every ambitious person in ancient China, slandered by the emperor's favorite eunuch because Li would not kiss up to him, now growing apart from the emperor. The poem pictures a lonely orchid (considered the gentleman's flower, signifying pure of heart and high moral standards) overrun by weeds (the evil people in the court), once blessed with the sun's warmth (the emperor's favor), now loomed by the autumn moon(absent of sun and gleam future), experiencing frost and rain, and finally, "If no gentle breeze blows, for whom would the fragrance spread?" (one's talent is meaningless without the emperor's appreciation) (孤蘭生幽園，衆草共蕪沒。雖照陽春暉，復悲高秋月。飛霜早淅瀝，綠豔恐休歇。若無清風吹，香氣爲誰發。) ↑ AI could probably translate this well, not me orz) The signature on the bottom left is a little hard, I read 化 something 主人, so master of 化 something, a typical pseudonym of an old-timey Chinese or Japanese literatus. Edited: Forgot to add! Many well-educated Edo-period people read and write Chinese poems, there are even quite a few examples where swordsmiths chisel Chinese poems onto swords (Nakago and/or sword itself). But the bowl(?) in the first pic looks a little Chinesey to me. A good magnifier may tell if it's machine-made with a mini hand drill or laser-engraved. The middle one might not have anything actually intelligible on it. The third one is too blurry to make out for me, perhaps someone trained in Chinese cursive could tell, but I'm in my third weekly class in total and from which I haven't been for three weeks......

Something I can add. I'm currently in the process of looking to see if I can start sending some of the items in an extensive knife collection, to the USA. Far higher prices. I have someone who does international shipping, and she specializes in sending knives overseas. Joyce is the main person here who everyone uses, and has shipped hundreds of parcels. I have been chatting to her the past few days. The process is fairly straight forward. But she cautioned me on one thing. Apparently fairly randomly (and she says in the majority...but not all cases...if they go through the Atlanta hub) the item will be selected for a CITES inspection. This is where they will check if there are any parts at all made from any endangered wildlife parts. Not just ivory, but certain woods, skins etc etc. Even in cases where these parts aren't present, she says in those cases, the item is delayed every time by between 14 and 21 days before being released. Even if they have the correct docs, once it is pulled aside for SITES inspection, you can add 21 days or so before it's released. Sounds to me like you fell foul of one of these inspections, before they decided none of the parts were a problem. But congrats, that is great news, really happy for you.

大谷家之紋透鐔 (Ohtani-ke no mon sukashi tsuba) – Sukashi tsuba of Ohtani family’s mon IMO, the hanging wisteria crest on the tsuba looks a little different from the Ohtani’s Sgari Fuji.

Same’ is a “fish product” some species may be prohibited. This happens sometimes if your sword enters thru Alaska…

@Bugyotsuji….Piers, what do you think? Im still for Japanese especially with that lovely ivory “repair” (but that is not based on hard knowledge!)

Studied under Suishinshi Masahide, so 1800s. Sayings, prayers, exhortations were often cut into sword tangs.

國安 Kuniyasu, first half of YBBB’s translation above.

@Markus has a later version: Koshirae Taikan. I have the ebook version, and it is an extensive resource that I recommend as a complete koshirae novice.

I believe this whole sword was imported from Germany. I say that because the details in the guard and back strap are noticeably more pronounced (3D) than in Japanese-made dress swords. Below a C&J compared with a Suya Shoten example. Also note how the center of sakura on the back strap is devoid of a small dot in the center. This detail is almost always present on Japanese-made Type 19s. These dress swords were made within a cottage industry of sorts so there are many minute variations, but certain details really stick out as unique in these two C&J swords.

Just added a nice HUGE Nobuie Utsushi. Fantastic iron with lump tekkotsu on the mimi and ji. 9.1 x 8.5cm. SD 3.5mm and 7.5-8.1mm at the mimi. Thing is a brick.

Thank you, Piers, Colin, and Baby Joe. I was just reading up on kanshi. I appreciate everyone's input on this. John C.

Sorry to necro, but I actually might have an answer for @Okan House cats were (it's reported) considered bad luck around dead people because of a legend about a cat that takes you to hell. The Kasha. You had to keep cats away from dead people or it might turn out to be a Kasha in disguise, who would steal the corpse, or turn it into a monster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasha_(folklore) Kasha the Japanese Cat Demon: History & Myth Explained https://www.catster.com/lifestyle/kasha-Japanese-cat-demon/ The story's development is complex, but basically it's called the Kasha. Originally it seems it was just a flaming chariot, but later it was depicted as being driven by a cat. In Nioh 2, they depicted Kasha as a boss, but also as a curvey and extremely hot cat woman. There's also other cat demons, like the Nekomata, which is where you cat develops into a yokai. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nekomata There's the Bakeneko, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakeneko So, while I can't say for sure this is the real reason there's less housecats on antique sword fittings.... it's very likely that it would be considered bad luck. A very basic human superstition is the idea that 'naming calls' (Say the devil's name and he will appear, as they say.) You wouldn't want to have a cat image on your sword because if you died with it with you (and that's kind of likely if you took it everywhere) it might make the appearance of a Kasha more likely. So I suspect the cat image might have just been considered bad luck.

George, perhaps the first thing to learn is what we would call a "matching" KOSHIRAE might not be the same in a Japanese view. In fact, there are (often valuable) KOSHIRAE with TOSOGU en suite coming out of the hands of a renowned craftsman, but this is far from being common with all SAMURAI. As I have read, with "average" class SAMURAI, KOSHIRAE were put together following individual taste and available money, and easy-to-change parts like TSUBA, TSUKA, or SAYA were probably exchanged a few times in the life of a good sword. So, not even looking at the historical changes in general styles and use of a sword, there were many factors in the choice and combination of sword parts that we are not always aware of. In many cases, we have to learn about Japanese taste, about their mythology, religion, nature, tales and legends, folklore and customs, a.s.o. Just to give an example: in the West, we would consider martial symbols fitting a weapon, but in Japan, you may find a FUCHI with playing puppies, or a (matching !) FUCHI-GASHIRA set with a peaceful farm scene with hens, chicks, and a cock. So, studying and understanding Japanese beliefs, feelings, and taste in the historical and cultural context will certainly help. Reading books by Lafcadio Hearn might also help. I don't think there is a fast and easy way.

Hi Jussi The main problem with this blade is the jiri, as every Kongohyoe blade has a Sotoba or at least Kengyo jiri. I know that there was one shown in the first book with ha-agari kurijiri, but I have since rejected that smith from Kongohyoe. Some people might think that the jiri has been re-shaped, but I have never seen that done with these, they always are kiri, if suriage. I think you will agree that this nakago has a Bungo look to it, and there was a Morihide practicing with the Taira group in early Muromachi. Also, the shinogi-haba looks a little narrow for Kongohyoe. I no longer submit blades for Shinsa, since in some cases you have to submit three times to get the correct attribution, and recently I have seen some rather obvious mis-attributions on NBTHK Hozon papers. I do have ultimate faith in Tanobe San, however. I received a mumei blade for evaluation not long ago, with Hozon papers attributing it to Kongohyoe. It was a beautiful elegant tachi, which immediately was a red flag to the attribution. Beautiful jigane of ko-mokume with a little nagare and bright hamon in suguha looked odd and then I noticed that after suriage the original mekugi-ana was still there, but there was no koshi-sori component in the nakago. The blade was completely tori-sori, ruling it out as Kongohyoe, not to mention the shinogi-haba was that of Yamashiro tradition and too narrow. After lots of research and the use of your wonderful spreadsheet, I pinned it down to Awataguchi, and then a smith from Inaba, the son of the founder of the Inaba Ko-Kaji group. As the founder was trained by the Awataguchi school, they made excellent duplicates of those blades, appearing to have the sugata just after mid-Kamakura when the compound sori was abandoned by the Awataguchi smiths and the koshi-sori removed. Anyway I eventually found signature fragments on the Mumei blade, showing "Kanenaga". So the moral of the story, is that the Shinsa judges are not infallible, and sometimes guess the wrong island. Sorry I cannot be of more help. Lloyd

This one popped up at Aoi (and Wakeidou before) and I'm having a hard time understanding the Mino papers - I would've thought Kozenji (光善寺)? Compare to papered Kozenji - I think they went Mino on the top one, because of the nanako?

https://www.samuraishokai.jp/sword/19166.html

hi gerry, does it mean that the us fish and wildlife agents took the sword out and inspected it? if so are there any handling marks and such? curious to know what they did and if they were careful in the process.

Thank you John, always a pleasure to have you comment on my sword.... Edward G

Ok this has been bugging me for some time now..Why didn't they use more Cats(strays) in fittings? I mean we see chickens, mouse, hare, plants, more plants, flowers, dragons etc..But why no strays? In Japanese folklore cats have protective powers..they symbolise good luck and fortune. So they would fit to the warrior class, and also Lords..So why not we are able to find more fittings with cats? Any ideas? Are they just too cute to wear? I'll share some pics that I was able to find.

Fantastic news, congratulations. Lack of communication between departments places heavy stress on everyone!

Nice looking sword, my immediate thought was also Sue Bizen from the Sugata and Nakago-jiri. It seems these short Gunto were not always for pilots, tank crews, submarines, hot air balloonists etc etc, and were simply made to the whims of the officer. In the thread below you can see many period photos showing full size swords being used by pilots and tank crews.

Last month I was in Kyoto. went into a tourist trap antique shop. It was at the end of a long street that is aimed at the tourist trade, but had genuine antiques for sale. There was a large section of sword fittings, most of them in poor shape. Some were sets connected by small bits of plastic, others individuals. In the individual menuki box, I found this treasure and bought it on the spot. A giant frog holding an umbrella, while a man in court dress bows down and prostrates himself to the frog. (I, For One, Welcome Our New Amphibian Overlords!) Whatever it was paired with has been lost to time. I am therefore posting it here, to ask if anyone else has seen it's like? (Besides the fire breathing toad of Tenjiku Tokubei...)

It does look like some sort of repair with a metal shim. I would just remove the tsuka and let it drop out. With the fiber material under the samegawa I’m thinking repair. I’ve handled a lot of dirks and have never seen anything like this before. Tom

That's great news, Gerry. Hopefully your persistance is what paid off, though we may never know. John C.

I'm also leaning that way Colin as this form (separate tobacco-bon, zutsu, and ojime) seems to be distinctly Japanese based on the research I've done. But I also think that Baby Joe my be on to something that, if I may paraphrase, the maker was a fan of Chinese poetry. John C.

I think I have seen this one before.... Dale, you have a great memory for posts. Jason

Certainly, not an expert but I do have a type 94 gunto for comparison. This one though is different from most of my Guntos, it appears to be a smaller scale version of a Shin-Gunto sword. The top sword is a Type 94 in picture 1 & 2. I have enclosed more of the handle. Hope this adds to the information Edward G

Impossible to say for sure from the photos, but my guess would be late koto based on the Sugata. Not a ton to glean from the photos of the blade, but the perhaps late Bizen kazuuchimono - like some signed Bizen Osafune Sukesada. Just a swag and worth every penny you paid for it!

...I should also add. While there is not a set rule of how many contests you need to take a top - or the top - prize before earning Mukansa, they have repeatedly and consistently earned top places in the contests. This is what makes their work beyond judgement or not needing to be judged - because it is known that it will be excellent. There is no test to take and the only opinion that matters is that of the NBTHK. This also adds the element of politics, since if you have in some way begrudged the NBTHK, your chances of earning the Mukansa title is likely to drop. This goes for the other crafts as well.

Hi, i am reducing my collection and selling now a nice Tanto from Gassan Sadayoshi. Nagasa is about 19,5 cm. It comes in Shirasaya, a Box and NBTHK Hozon papers. A nice package I think. Price is 3000 Euro (including shipping inside EU) About the smith (from Markus Seiko books): SADAYOSHI (貞吉), Bunkyū (文久, 1861-1864), Settsu – “Ushū Murayama-gun no jū Gassan Sadayoshi Sesshū Ōsaka ni oite kore o saku” (羽州村山郡住月山貞吉於摂州大坂作之, “made by Gassan Sadayoshi from the Mura- yama district of Dewa province in Ōsaka in Settsu province”), “Naniwa ni oite Gassan Yahachirō Sadayoshi” (於浪花月 山弥八郎貞吉), “Naniwa Kinpō-jōhen ni oite Gassan Yahachirō Sadayoshi kore o tsukuru” (於浪花金宝城辺月山 弥八郎貞吉), “Naniwa-jū Gassan Sadayoshi” (浪華住月山貞吉), “Gassan Sadayoshi kore o tsukuru” (月山貞吉造之), “Sesshū ni oite Ikutama-jū Gassan Sadayoshi kore o tsukuru” (於摂州住生玉月山貞吉造之), real name Gassan Yahachirō (月山弥八郎), he was born in the first year of Tenmei (天明, 1781) in Takegawa (竹川) in the Murayama district (村山郡) of Dewa province as oldest son of the local swordsmith Okuyama Yasaburō Sadachika (奥山弥三郎 貞近) who is regarded as reviver of the kotō-era Gassan school, at the beginning of the Bunsei era (文政, 1818-1830) he moved to Edo and studied there under Suishinshi Masahide (水心子正秀), later, in the fourth year of Tenpō (天保, 1833), he moved to Ōsaka, he died on the 19th day of the second month Meiji three (1870) at the age of 90, we know blades from the Bunsei to the end of the Keiō era (慶応, 1865-1868), the jigane is the Gassan-typical ayasugi-hada, a masame in the Yamato tradition, or a dense mokume, the hamon can appear as suguha in nie-deki, as small dimensioned choji- midare, or as koshi-no-hiraita midare, traditions say that his adopted son Sadakazu made some daisaku-daimei works when Sadayoshi was in his later years, – The handed-down dates are somewhat uncertain. When Sadayoshi was allegedly born in Tenmei one (1781), his father Sadachika was only ten years old. A theory says that Sadayoshi died not at the age of 90 but of 71 in Meiji three (1870) what would calculate his year of birth as Kansei two (寛政, 1800). Sadachika was then 30 years old and this seems to be more plausible. So maybe this all goes back to a wrong quotation of his age when he died and the year of birth had never been transmitted and always just calculated back from Meiji three. jō-saku For any questions or offers, write me pleas a PM, Thanks Oliver

I'm away from my books, but can say that in the beginning stages of Westernization, Japan imported blades from Germany. So, that puts your sword very early, like 1890s or 1900ish. Dawson says in his book (which I don't have right now).

Neat display, Piers. That red table top seems to set everything off really well.

@Spartancrest, After my last reply, I did a LOT of digging. Now, when I buy a unique item online, I always try to do a reverse image search, because I've seen a lot of people selling items they do not own, then rushing off to buy the item if it sells. I bought a wonderful set of Fuchi & Kashira off ebay, asked the seller to send them to a Japanese company making a koshirae for me... and the guy panicked, acted weird as heck, and canceled the sale. I don't think I was even able to bad review him because he cancelled it. I did a reverse image and found out it was on a Japanese site for half the price. I bought it there out from under the swindler. Lately though Japanese sites are bouncing the reverse image search, and ChatGPT who I occasionally use for assistance (though I do NOT trust LLMs. I use them as search engines now that search engines are mostly bad at the job.) tells me that it is not able to access the images on those websites if I link them, I have to download the screenshots and manually enter them for Chatgpt to look at. This is a big problem, and I think I should make a thread about it, because if I can't reverse image to the Japanese auction sites because they are bouncing the search it's much harder to catch swindlers. Still, I took your photo (which I originally didn't recognize as a link to Yahoo auctions Japan's images) and reversed it, and got those suspicious websites we mentioned. It seems what these websites are doing is scraping the internet to have the entire internet on their site so they can mirror whatever you are searching and can come up for every search. You search "Prehistoric potato chips made by time traveling dragons from mars" and they will somehow always manage to come up and look like they have something for you.... The scraper sites however did have some real images.... and copies of the Japanese kanji text from the original yahoo auction. And using that text I was able to search google for that text exactly, and the original auction (from 2021) came up.... and it's the place I bought the item at. Which was a lot of work to go in a circle. Seems they had the neat little thing 4-5 years before I walked in and was enchanted by it. (IT was also 8K more in person..... but I still love it.) https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t1026815632 Still, the ability to reverse image to these sites directly matters to collectors, and I really do want to dig into why the search engines are getting bounced by them. Anyone have anything on that? Below is (some of) what ChatGPT had to say on it. Also, note that where it says "And this is important: your object may not originally have been catalogued as a netsuke at all" is an example of an LLM having a breakdown, as it was never suggested the Frog Overlord was a netsuke, and I always referred to it as a menuki, since it was sold to me as one (though I think the idea above by @ROKUJUROthat it's actually a clasp has a lot of merit.) Which roughly translates to: “Sword fitting, Edo-period original, shakudō-ground frog large fitting, 12g (first item / purchased item)” That is a very strong sign this was copied from a genuine Japanese antique listing. A few important clues: 刀装具 = sword fitting 江戸～ オリジナル = Edo-period original 赤銅地 = shakudō base/ground (the dark copper-gold alloy used in high-end fittings) 蛙 = frog 大金具 = large fitting So the scraper page at least preserved the original Japanese title. And this is important: your object may not originally have been catalogued as a netsuke at all. It may have been sold as: a sword fitting, kozuka ornament, menuki-related object, or detached tosogu component. That actually fits your earlier suspicion that the piece felt “odd” and did not neatly conform to normal netsuke construction. As for safety: The domain does not immediately present as classic malware/phishing from the search result alone. HOWEVER, it still behaves like a scraper/mirror commerce site, and I would not log in, create accounts, enter payment info, or disable browser protections. If you want to inspect it safely: use a browser with scripting limited, or open it in a VM/sandbox, or use a text-only fetch service. But the key takeaway is: you now have real Japanese metadata attached to the piece. That is valuable. And honestly, “赤銅地 蛙 大金具” is probably the most useful lead you’ve gotten so far. {I asked about the scaper sites and it came back with 1) Why those scraper pages exist (and why they look sketchy) They’re not random—they’re SEO parasites. How they work: Bots crawl places like Yahoo Auctions Japan, Rakuten, Mercari They copy: title text (often in Japanese), thumbnail images, sometimes prices/IDs They auto-generate fake “product pages” on cheap domains 2) Why the real Japanese listings don’t show up This is the part that actually matters for your use case. I'm also discussing work arounds with chatgpt, but he's being unrealistic in the way that LLMs sometimes are. Giving academic ideas that actual users will immediately see are bad. Have there been big discussions on here about that? There likely should be. EDIT: Actually do kind of like that frog Tsuba.... if it stays low maybe I will buy it.... I like fitting with animals, especially aquatic animals.

https://xmhqqg.dlubowitz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=13979&sid=6XDvntj The site won't open for me either but the image is able to be copied. When I tried to search the second image I get a link including Yahoo Auctions. But still won't show where it originated. Need a froggy tsuba? https://www.jauce.com/auction/w1228933639 Heads up it is a "popular" cast piece! Note the simulated sekigane!

Is this the same piece? - found on another site

Matt lovely piece - coincidence as I just won one on auction but I have no idea what I will find under the dirt and rust! Do you think Nobuie was a "Nutter for Nata"?

Luba, get into contact with our boss, Brian. He will tell what you could find and see in S.A.

Fred W. has this one up on his site: Fred needs to check his images - same side view of the guard, no ura view, https://www.slam.org/collection/objects/37749/ a Nata on the back like Bruno's and Grev's examples - must be a meaning there?

Alex, here are some more quotes about Mr. Mosle'. Henry Joly is quoted as saying, "Mosle was fortunate beyond all but two or three Europeans in securing the friendly help of Japanese collectors and experts to impart the personal knowledge necessary to weed the master’s own works from the productions of pupils, followers and imitators." “Bashford Dean (Honorary Curator of Arms and Armor at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC) writes in 1910 about this collection: “It contains objects which will never again be secured by a Japanese collector, and the actual value of it, of course, cannot be estimated in money. The set of your Goto objects alone, would be a collection which give class to any museum, Japanese or foreign”.” “(100 Selected Tsuba from European Public Collections)” “Mosle’ moves to the United States without any political pressure in 1935. He will die there in 1946 having lived like a prince. His collection will be sold by Parke-Bernet on April 22, 1948. The catalog (5 X 8”) had 53 pages!” “(100 Selected Tsuba from European Public Collections)” In 2004, the New York Times published "...Alexander G. Moslé, a German businessman who worked in Japan from 1884 to 1907. As the representative of the Gruson Company, a subsidiary of Krupp Steel, Moslé was able to persuade the Japanese government to switch from French to German arms just as Japan was asserting itself as a military power. (The first Sino-Japanese War was in 1894-95 and the Russo-Japanese War in 1904-05. ) The arms trade made Moslé wealthy; at one point he had 2249 Japanese swords, armor, more than 1600 sword fittings, Japanese paintings, prints, sculptures, ceramics, lacquer and textiles. Moslé retired in 1907 and returned to Germany, working with scholars and dealers to learn more about his collection. In 1909 he exhibited it at the Königliches Kunstgewerbe Museum in Berlin. It was published in two catalogs in 1914, which are still considered important reference works..." Two portfolio cases. Portfolio 1: Title page, Introduction and catalogue, followed by Plates 1-102. Portfolio 2: Plates 103-204. Address of Mr. Mosle: 5 East 66th St., New York City, N.Y. There are some more Mosle' details in this article. https://shibuiswords.com/joshuHaynes.htm

From Hiroshima - the lights do flicker a bit in the room!

As per previous advice, kick up a HUGE storm. Email everyone from the CEO down. Emphasize that this is a unique, one of a kind item and is a cultural item, and that you are going to have to warn Japanese dealers against using USPS. Ask them who you put down as the person to contact since you will be opening a case with the police. Remind them that the Nihonto community is close, and that there have been a spate of these lately. Really go all out. It is my personal experience that the more you shake up the guys at top, the more change the item is "suddenly found" You have nothing to lose.

Just lovely Tony, did you post in moon tsuba thread?

Where is the love for cats? How about the love of cash! Wish I had some! https://www.jauce.com/auction/j1087841412 - Starting off at 195,000 yen

Was doing some research on Choshu tsubas just now and came across this: Bonhams : A Choshu-school iron tsuba By Nakai Tomotsune, 18th century (2)

LOL. Oh, definitely modern. That's fine. Well, I do prefer the copper inserts...

Well - - - you might have gotten a much cheaper version earlier on. No doubt in my mind these are modern - sorry about that