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A little correction, 梶の葉 – Paper mulberry leaf/leaves

鉄地真丸形両櫃 梶の葉透し 無銘 尾張栃畑 江戸時代初期 昭和五十三年孟秋 宗完 Iron ground, round shape, twin hitsu-ana Paper Mulberry leaf openwork Unsigned, Owari Tochibata Early Edo period Early autumn, Shōwa 53 (1978) Sōkan (Kao)

Here is for sale something you don’t encounter every day, Nanbokuchō period naginata. As many might know ōdachi and naginata are my main thing in collecting and research. I am not too happy to sell this one as finding Nanbokuchō naginata is very difficult. However, I will try to save up towards something better so I need to let this one go. This is in no means a perfect piece and it has been shortened but it still remains as a naginata. It has few flaws which can be seen in pictures but also parts of this have quite nice workmanship and interesting activity in hamon. NBTHK has attributed this to Ko-Uda, and I would think this would be Nanbokuchō work. I believe this naginata has been shortened around 25 cm from its original blade length that would have been around 75 cm. As can be seen in the pictures the original naginata-hi is only on the nakago with soe-bi continuing small portion into current blade. I have really enjoyed owning a shortened naginata like this that is not a naoshi, these are quite rare to come by at this length of shortening. It is far more common to find slightly shortened ones. The NBTHK Hozon papers show the item as naginata and attribution to Ko-Uda. I am not that good in kantei as I don't focus on the smaller details that much, I prefer the bigger picture. However, I can understand how NBTHK went with this attribution. There is lots of interesting activity in the blade but I think the Ko-Uda attribution is fitting as this item might be lower quality in overall. There is also a piece of the item missing on the mune. It is about 2cm in size. I tend to think it could be battle damage but it is impossible to tell for sure. It could be someone dropped it to stone by accident in 1980's Japan etc. I know many dealers would tout battle damage view and I understand it in business field. I feel the picture with flaw shows also some blade details quite nicely, I am not really good photographer and only have my phone to take pictures. I would believe this one has lost the original shaft it has had and someone made this shirasaya style shaft for this. The saya is what I believe is called Raden, it has some pieces that have flaked off and it is in worn condition with small split near the tip area. Unfortunately, I don't think in this price range professional restoration would be feasible. It has two piece copper habaki, it is plated to make it golden color. Nagasa: 49,4 cm Sori: 2,2 cm Motohaba: 3,1 cm Motokasane: 5mm Nakago: 42,5 cm Weight: 865 grams (blade) Tsuka: 87 cm Total: 127,5 cm In saya: 130 cm In overall I think this is interesting item. Definitely this is not the best item out there but I think it is a cool very old naginata, and they are hard to find. I've been tracking them down when they appear for 10+ years now. I tried to put some interesting images in the sales ad. I do have lots of more on my computer and I can take any pictures that are wanted. I needed to reduce the size of pictures a lot to forum, here is a link to a dropbox with full sized pictures. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/uoojaq9z0u2sukoingnky/AFdEMoQUVW2_45g-rHbXdws?rlkey=1fmzk5iuusccggb3rb2w1h2ha&dl=0 I would prefer bank transfer as the method but can also accept PayPal. Message me and I will check the postage costs to you. One thing that is needed that I can send 150 cm package to your country by Finnish Post. Price: 3000€

Thanks! One of these days I'll get one of these handwritten inscriptions 100%!

Bit late, but better late than never. The original question is not quite as simple as it seems. The sword I own is a 4th Gen katana with a katana mei and NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon papers. I asked Sensei Tanobe about it and he wrote back (Jan 2000) and said " Dear Mr. Robertshaw, Even though your Tadayoshi sword is slightly too long to have a Katana -mei, there are indeed some exceptions amongst swords made by Tadayoshi II, III and IV in length slightly over 2 Shaku. The mei is undoubtedly genuine, thus this sword may be considered a very rare example of such exceptional works. Sincerely yours, Michihiro Tanobe" with seal. The Hizen kaji cutoff for 'Katana' versus 'Wakizashi' is 2 Shaku 1 sun, so a technically long sword at 2 shaku 0 sun 8 Bu (for example) and classed as a katana by the NBTHK, would be thought of as a Wakizashi in the Hizen Kaji and would therefore have the signature on the "wrong" side for the average collector who uses 2 Shaku as the cutoff! The sword referenced above (4th Gen) is ubu at 2shaku 3 sun 3 bu --- so not in the questionable zone of 2 shaku 1 sun, in fact, way outside this zone.. Never say "Never" when it comes to swords! Cheers, Rog

Thank you so much for your help, gentlemen! It does indeed seem to describe the tsuba within the box. However, it's strange that it doesn't have the 'twisted rope' mimi associated with the Tochibata school. Unsurprisingly, I'm not familiar with the appraiser, Sōkan.

Good point @Hector, we should split these threads. In my attempt to split the thread, I accidentally bungled the whole thing and deleted the fake sword post. We'll need @Brian to fix my mistake. My apologies! -Sam

The problem occurs when someone (in this case Bendy) inserts a different blade into an on-going discussion, and from there on we are never sure which blade we are talking about. It needs a new thread.

Is it correct to put this entire thread under the 'Fake Japanese Swords' heading as it started off with a genuine Mantetsu?

Tengen Chiben (1737-1805), whose art name was Gako (meaning "Goose Lake"), was a second generation Rinzai monk in the Hakuin Ekaku tradition. He lived and taught at temples like Onsenji and Nanzenji, leaving behind influential ink paintings and calligraphy that showcased his deep understanding of Zen Buddhism. He was known for his expressive figural paintings, especially of Zen eccentrics like Kanzan (Chinese Hanshan 寒山), "Cold Mountain") and Jittoku, following the tradition of Hakuin's lineage. However, this painting and accompanying inscription of one of Hanshan's most famous poetic quatrains (#5) shows his lively and individualistic brushwork. The dark outline of their bodies, eyes, and handle of broom stands out from the gray-wash of their clothes, serves as a compositional device to emphasize attention on the moon above. Interestingly, Gako substitutes the less formal Wǒ (我) for the first character Wú (吾) in Hanshan's poem, both of which have the same meaning. The verses connect the moon's perfect, untainted reflection to the enlightened mind (Buddha-mind or kensho), representing clarity, emptiness (mu), and the universe: 吾心似秋月 (Wú xīn sì qiū yuè) - My mind is like the autumn moon, 碧潭清皎潔 (Bì tán qīng jiǎo jié) - clear and bright in a pool of jade, 無物堪比倫 (Wú wù kān bǐ lún) - nothing can compare, 教我如何説 (Jiào wǒ rú hé shuō) - what more can I say1 This specific piece was purchased in auction for a mere fraction of its real value, perhaps unrecognized as the very example from a private collection that was published in Stephen Addiss' seminal book.2 1The Collected Songs of Cold Mountain. Translated by Red Pine; publisher Copper Canyon Press, Washington (2000), pg. 39 2The Art of Zen: paintings and calligraphy by Japanese monks 1600-1925. Stephen Addiss; publisher Harry N. Abrams, Inc., New York (1989)

I like it. Workmanship and patina of the koshirae are pointing to Meiji or Taisho era. Although not of high level craftsmanship it is of Japanese origin, way too good to be Chinese. The blade and its particular shape is of no interest here. The package once made a nice gift on a special occasion. A bride's gift for her new husband at their wedding for example. reinhard BTW: Not all blades made in Japan were meant to be Nihon-to for samurai. Just for consideration before posting mischievous comments.

Not sure if I have asked this question before, but can I ask the correct pronunciation of this Tsukamoto Masasakazu personal name. Here is an oshigata of his from 1941 in which he includes his personal name. Can someone tell me whether it is pronounced SHINSHIRO or NOBUSHIRO? I ask as I have seen it quoted both ways in different Japanese sources and as a result am unable to be definite about his name. Regards, George.

Coming from another angle, there are many names which could be read either way. A simple example is the swordsmith Chogi/Nagayoshi. Sometimes an alternative reading is used to distinguish one person with the same name from another. Kane/Kin, etc. Today in Japan if there is any doubt, (and even when there isn't) people will ask you how your name is pronounced. Only the owner can tell you for sure. Although 信四郎 can be read Shinshiro, and I have found examples on the web, Nobushiro is more likely to bring up the correct kanji 信 in people's minds. Even if the 'correct' reading was Shinshiro, the owner would be 100% used to people calling him Nobushiro, and if or when he introduced himself as 'Shinshiro', each and every time people asked him which character he used for Shin, he would surely have answered 'Nobu'. In this sense the default reading would really have to be Nobushiro...

From google. Might get you started at least: Shinkugata? ? Heavy openwork Early Edo Period Showa 53 (1977) John C.

That is very interesting. I don't know that much about details of Hokke and don't know the kantei features of the school so well. But it was nice I got close with Ko-Mihara guess. I actually have blade that has old papers to Hokke Ichijō and it has portions that have nice fine looking hada. Unfortunately my photography is awful...

Enso Nakahara Nantenbo (1839-1925), whose Buddhist name was Toju Zenchu (Complete Devotion), was in the last 17 years of his life the Exalted Master of the main temple of Moyoshin-ji of the Rinzai sect. A contemporary of the great lay Zen master, swordsman, calligrapher/artist, and statesman Yamaoka Tesshu, whom he met while teaching at the training hall at Sokei-ji in Tokyo and had daily private meetings with, he was a tireless reformer of Zen monastic training and activity, emphasizing strict practice and koan study. Done when he was 80 years old, this delightful Enso shows Nantenbo's sense of humor even while encouraging the pursuit of enlightenment. The moon is a more concrete manifestation of the Enso in the empiric world, symbolizing sudden enlightenment. However, he also challenges us to make a diligent, single-minded, and bold effort to seize the opportunity for achieving self-evident truth. Tsuki (moon) appears in kanji as 月. The structure is not quite haiku. If that moon falls, I will give it to you, Now try to take it. kono tsuki ga, (この 月 が) hoshiku bayarou (ほしく ばやろ) tote miyo (とて みよ)

Another Yuletide tsuba I'm mulling over. it's .....well, square. In every sense of the word. I'd like to know whether you think this is as it is because the craftsman just couldn't handle cutting out curves or that it represents some abstract design - whether simple geometric shapes or perhaps a hidden martial philosophy (like the Yagyu school with its triangle)? Best, Hector

Similar tsuba in this thread with explanations:

Shin is the usual reading of 信, and will usually be the pronunciation used by dictionaries etc. However, it is also read as "Nobu", and the most famous example of this is probably 信長 (Nobunaga, as in Oda). Which reading is used isn't revealed by the Kanji alone - so without other records/precedence it could be either. For example 照門 is sometimes read (in modern transliterations) as Terumon, but most sword books state "Terukado" (てるかど) where pronunciation is given.

... and Shodai Munetsugu was probably about as close to "mainline" as you could get other than Tadayoshi ... He was the head priest of the entire Hizen Kaji, and is postulated to have become "Tosa no Kami Tadayoshi" (by Eguchi).... the 'conspiracy theory goes along the lines of Shodai Tadayoshi becoming too famous, so the name Tadayoshi was given to Munetsugu as head priest, so Tadayoshi changed to signing Tadahiro in 1624, got a bit hacked off, and used dai-mei --- hence most Shodai Tadahiro mei are dai-mei. Interestingly a whole bunch of smiths disappeared (died) around 1632...including Shodai Munetsugu. Natural causes, a fire?, or a bad case of eating contaminated fish at the local takeaway? (Joking).

You are right, Jussi. The Tegai blade is the Jūyō.

These areas below as well as numerous others clearly show the presence of nie…. Not sure why the point was made (by Kiril, etc) in the posts above or even (in my interpretation) raised as a [potential] concern…. Perhaps I am reading too much in between the lines Anyway, plenty of nie for those who know what to look for. Now, if people are looking for are nie or hadaka nie, that is another matter. Again, people need to know the terminology and differences. Finally, for those who like to get into the minutiae of the written docs, even the setsumei is very clear about the nie: “刃文 尖り刃、小のたれ、のたれ、互の目など交じり、足・葉入り、沸出来、処々強く沸づき、飛焼・湯走り交え、少しく焼落ちある。 Hamon: Pointed gunome, small notare, notare mixed with gunome; containing ashi and yō; nie-deki with areas of strong nie; mixed with tobiyaki and yubashiri; with slight yakiochi present.”

Thank you Dan! I could certainly see a familiar style in this example.

Hi Hector, If you download this file (written by a member of this great forum) it may assist you. You have to be signed on to the forum to view it.

That is the famous Swiss TSUBA design:

I'd suggest 葡萄 - budō - grapevine for the second tsuba.

The guy with the big, round drill has produced another masterpiece - this one looks like a bubble bath. 😳

@Curran and @Michael 101, thank you both for your insights - they're much appreciated! Another point which seemed suspicious to me was that the lines in the design - which you would expect to be chiselled - seem to lack any evidence of chisel marks in close up. Even a brass kiseru (pipe) I own with an engraving of a tiger in long grass shows clear chisel marks as shown below.

Old thread, but it looks like one of the Shizu from the notoriously selective Juyo Session 70 has just popped up on Eirakudo, where it's described as a strong candidate for Tokubetsu Juyo: https://eirakudo.shop/196585

Yeah I am not sure what the standard is for Tanzan/Tanobe to do a sayagaki, but just as an example...I currently have 5 blades (2 Koto, 1 Shinto, 2 Shinshinto) in Japan right now getting sayagaki from Tanobe, plus 1 already here with me...so I would have to go with the higher numbers in the thousand(s)

Tanobe-sensei is somewhat of an outlier compared to historical appraisers in that his sayagaki, when he approves of the blade or finds it interesting in some way, have essentially a setsumei with some thoughts that almost count as a classification level on their own (see past arguments over what "chin chin, cho cho" means compared to swords that don't have it); Kunzan and Kanzan tended to be much more of an attribution/authentication than a commentary. So in a sense there's a value-add in getting a sayagaki done by him because in addition to being a second opinion, often you'll find insights in there that aren't in the Juyo setsumei, or even (if you're lucky) an implication that the NBTHK's attribution was a bit too conservative.

Thank you! Very, very useful information. Respect, guys! The first blade was attributed to the Tegai school, while the second one to Hokke. Both are indeed Nanbokuchō.

It is very difficult to say as I am often struggling to understand the fine differences. I would think these both are Yamato style swords and would be from late Kamakura - Nanbokuchō period. For the first sword I would guess Tegai. My reasoning for that is that the 5 mainline Yamato seem to have their own small differences. To me Tegai would seem logical as for Taima I would expect tighter and "finer" jigane. Shikkake I would expect to see bit different hamon activity. Senjuin would have more "rougher" feeling to me personally and for Hoshō there would be so strong masame. For the second sword I would guess Ko-Mihara. This one maybe does have bit tighter hada to my eye, however it does not seem like Taima level quality in overall as it seems bit weaker in presence than the first sword. My explanation of my thoughts might be difficult to grasp as it is difficult to put it in words. So I will go for Ko-Mihara on this. Honestly I could throw the same Tegai guess for this one too. I would not have guessed that either of these swords are Jūyō but if one is then I think it is the 1st sword.

My Shikkake was submitted last year (2023) and failed. Wondered why the dealer didn't try and resubmit but having seen these results he made the right decision. Pitiful pass rate and easy money for NBTHK.

There is a difference between Japanese folk-art and Chinese junk. One is the blueprint for the other. Since Chinese fakers are still operating on a shitty level as far as imitating advanced Japanese objects are concerned, they are focussing on simpler objects. I might be wrong, but the prawn-koshirae has a different quality than the toad and lotus crap. reinhard