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I have one even earlier than Edo period, Tensho koshirae from Muromachi period, still with the original blade inside. All lacquered black, even the original seppa have traces.

It's important to remember correlation does not imply causation; and not all opinions are created equal. Dan, some food for thought. Can you imagine if I persistently told people on the forum with more knowledge than me, even after they tell me otherwise: "Maybe my sword was made with cast steel, and an alternative hardening method. It has features that I am unable to describe and identify, so it could be RARE, and an example of SECRET KNOWLEDGE." Because that's how all this sounds. Sincerely, -Sam

No, not even remotely interesting. And irrelevant. They aren't for a second stating the info was never put down in writing, or shared with no-one. Just that you had to be "in" the tradition to have access to it. And this is 2024. That literature is now available. Stop Googling to try and find scraps of info to turn into a conspiracy. It's getting annoying.

Hello, I recently obtain that tsuba, from a friend. I wanted to know more about it. I was thinking about some higo work, but I would like to know more. The theme is some grave stone(?!)with gold numome, spider and web made from hirazogan, on wooden pattern, with a large numome rim. The size is 86x83mm The thickness is 5mm on the rim and about 3mm on seppa dai.

https://www.jstor.or...table/48647105?seq=1 page 5 You asked Jean to state his references. He was referencing the article that you shared, that I linked above. On page 5. But you’re right, he can defend himself, and I’m sure he will if he chooses to. But Dan, your inability to connect the dots is flabbergasting. I think it’s time for me to retire from these fantasy and guesswork threads of yours. Goodbye Dan, best of luck finding the ghosts you’re looking for. -Sam

This whole thread has nothing to do with TSUBA. It is Kindergarten, and I am out, too.

The short text may seem interesting to some, but as far as sword forging in Japan is concerned, it is not correct in parts. I read: .....Once you had joined, then you had access to oral and practical instruction and ultimately to the manuscript texts which embodied the “secret” knowledge. All this came at a financial cost, of course: the knowledge had not been privatised and professionalised for nothing...... Well, as an interested apprentice, you could not choose a school or a master, but you had to apply for apprenticeship, hoping to be accepted. Additionally, as a young lad, you certainly had no knowledge about sword making schools or differences in techniques. And learning did not contain manuscript texts or whatever instruction, oral or practical. In the beginning, you were allowed to watch the master and to learn by copying movements and techniques. This has only changed with some smiths in modern times where real teaching is practiced. Apprentices did not have to pay (as was usual in Europe at that time), but only as an UCHI DESHI they could sleep in the house and were fed by the smith's family. For everything else, they had to rely on support from their own family. The only process that was kept secret for outsiders was the temperature of the quenching water in the trough. So no, this text part is not well researched and mostly fantasized.

For those of us who have an interest in Namban guards here are a couple of videos from someone with a Chinese perspective on what would have been identified as Namban. https://www.youtube....v=Njri9wKhP5A&t=630s All the best.

You bet there are triangular tsuba https://collections..../item/O462200/tsuba/ [nice one too!]

Congrats to @Mark S. great throughout @Brian if I manage to get over 2024 physically primarily ill send something your way y

Or 長光 (Nagamitsu)

Dear Michael. Please bear in mind that I know nothing. When I first saw this I was worried by the treatment of the cloud over the face of the moon, given that one might expect the cloud to be dark/shakudo rather than silver. On reflection I find the textured treatment of the other side rather stiff and uninspired. Also the face of Hotei and the child...... Just not sure about this one. Hope to be wrong in every regard. All the best.

Ito - is also "thread cutting" as in Ito-sukashi a number of schools used the technique. https://www.kosho.or...product_id=275327658 https://www.kosho.or...product_id=381081619 An English translation of the text was talked about way back in 2014 - not sure if it ever happened? https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/15368-translation-of-ito-bushu-tsuba-book-by-markus-sesko/

This gunto tassel came with a sword that has very good provenance and considering how everything was I think it is original to the sword. It came with the loop cut and frayed attached as shown in the picture. I did take it off and retied it once at which point it started to come apart and I lost maybe a quarter of an inch / half centimeter from the frayed part.

For something possible for normal collectors I would recommend looking into Bizen and the "unpopular" schools/smiths. I think these are pretty much the only option to get a fairly cheap dated tachi from 1300's. For tachi I would recommend 3M yen budget and for short blades 1,5M. I think this might be the only affordable blade dated in 1300's that is currently available. Morimoto dated 1362-1368 (as actual year is unreadable). Asking price is now 900,000 yen. What is to be noted that this is the 5th dealer that has had this blade for sale in fairly short time. It first popped at 380k and I wanted it, still wanted it at 550k... Now currently at 900k it is not that appealing to me anymore. https://www.e-sword....isashi/2410-2021.htm Here are few other short swords. Just note that historical prices on sales ads would be much higher today. https://www.aoijapan...safune-ju-morishige/ https://www.kandatou...tou/wakizashi16.html https://www.aoijapan...ai-5-nen-nigatsu-hi/ Then some long ones. I know I really wanted this one. I was actually saving money for it when it was with different dealer. Then it appeared to Aoi at lower price later on. https://web.archive....-hidemotsumasamitsu/ This one was also one I considered as plausible buy when it was with another dealer. Then it vanished and Meirin had it for much higher price https://web.archive....swords2/KT222174.htm Yoshii is a school to keep an eye open for, not highly appreciated https://www.samurais....jp/sword/08119.html

Oldest one in existence is tachi by Naminohira Yukimasa dated 1159. The second oldest is tachi by Bungo Yukihira that is dated 1205.

Hello everyone! I'm new to forums, but was curious about this tsuba I found whilst cleaning one of my friends houses. It has some markings on it that I cannot read. I assume they are in Japanese but it could be Chinese as well. If anyone could assist me that would be much appreciated.

As I replied above it appears to be a name for the sword. Kinzogan-mei are gold inlaid inscriptions. At some point the sword was given a name, and that name was inscribed in inlaid in gold.

Wow, another thread to pull my hair out over. Fremdschämen

Textbook fake with all the red flags. For sale on ebay, not even going to post the link. Don't even have to enlarge on each section of the sword. I could see from the expanded shot that the haikan was mounted too far down the saya, for starters:

Dear Grev. Forgive me if this is obvious and you have already used it but.....https://shibuiswords.com/tsuba.htm You'll have to scroll down a bit. And from, 'Tsuba:An Aesthetic Study', "The term Bushi tsuba means the Ito school. Though there were many other workers, and several other schools at Edo at this time. These other schools were, for the most part, branch schools that came to settle in Edo, whereas the Ito school was native to that area. They were the most powerful, and largest school in Edo, with influence over all the others who worked around them. The Ito school became so popular that schools as far away as Choshu felt compelled to adopt its style." All the best.

Thanks John These are tsuba I owned but some have been sold or are for sale in my PDF tsuba sale. The second 'H' number may be in error Weave Bushu Ito Masatada 1650 Fans Bushu Ito Masatada 1800 Daikon Bushu Ito Masatada 1800 Flower Bushu Ito Masatada 1800 Dragon Bushu Ito Masatada 1800 Aubergines Bushu Ito Masatada 1800 Eagle Bushu Ito Masatomi 1800 Tea Bushu Ito Masayoshi (正義) H048482 1850 Mokume Bushu Ito Masayuki H049190 1900 Sukashi bird Bushu Ito Mumei 1775 Dragon Bushu Ito Mumei 1775 Pines Bushu Ito Mumei 1775

Another.

Alex, when I acquired this it was in a very sleepy state. Blade covered in thick grease, tsuba rusty, binding disintegrating. Very difficult to take apart without damage. Probably not much different from when it left Japan.

I read somewhere long long time ago that had some meaning. Unfortunately the article is long gone.. no im not confusing it ichimonji it would seem unpractical to shorten the blade furthermore in case the nakago is still good.. It’d be like uchi gatana at 28” 1/4 nagasa?? just my approach y

Thank you for the feedback and help identifying the book. Thank you, Mike

Historical Armor and the History of the Military Founders of the Ii Clan by NAKAMURA Tatsuo

The more elaborate Sarute really tore up the tassels over time and heavy use. Good provenance is the only definitive way to say if a tassel is original.

Unfortunately this sword has 99% chances being gimei.

I guess you know why I’m asking then. The example I chose was just a little clearer than the one I own now. Just wanted to learn more.

Thank you very much! Makes much more sense than google lens..

Jean, it’s his first post….lets welcome him.

Member of NBTHK AB and a member of the Toronto Japanese Canadian Cultural Centre Token Kai.

Just one more….a nice custom shinshinto koshirae on a big shinshinto blade ….cant decide if the metalwork is very heavily tarnished silver or shibuichi with a high silver content. Plovers and waves. I have found a better tsuba with same subject but can’t bring myself to swap it because then it isn’t original. Even got it’s old collection label.

It looks like a sageo and probably tied like that on purpose, but it isn't too long to be from a tassel.

An early-Edo koshirae for a Wakasa no kami Ujifusa O-tanto, blade signed and dated to Genki 3 (1572). The koshirae is thought by some knowledgeable folks to be original to the blade, but I feel it is more likely to be early-Edo, latest-Momoyama at the earliest. There were various times during late-Momoyama and early-Edo that bolder saya were briefly fashionable, but the Tokugawa government handed down edicts restricting/forbidding the use of such flamboyant displays. The periods I'm most aware of here would be the last 10-12 years of Momoyama (1603-1615), the mid- to late-1620s, and then Genroku at the end of the 17th century. I feel that this koshirae is most likely one of the earlier periods, maybe the 1620s, but those more knowledgeable than I can probably provide a much more informed opinion. The saya is lacquered in black, brown, and red, with some fading to all of it over the centuries. The saya is also peppered with more than four hundred inlaid elements, made of iron, perhaps, or lead? Pewter? I'm really not sure. The koshirae is in aikuchi mounts, with shakudo log-eared rabbit menuki (probably Kyo-kinko). The habaki is silver (or silver-plated), I believe, in a kiku motif. The blade presents with a hitatsura hamon; perhaps the boldness of the saya was seen by the individual commissioning it to suit such a blade. Detailed sayagaki by Tanobe-sensei extolling the virtues of the blade.

Kawachi (no) kami Fujiwara Kunisuke. A well-known lineage of swordsmiths working in the early Edo period. There are also many fakes of their work, I would suggest researching online against authenticated examples.

It shows an address and a name. 埼玉縣入間郡福原村大字下赤坂七百参拾七番地ノ一 – Saitama-ken, Iruma-gun, Fukuhara-mura, Oaza Shimoakasaka 737-1 帝国在郷軍篠崎傳蔵 – An ex-soldier of IJA, Shinozaki Denzo

This one also came with the sword and yet again the loop end was cut. This one was attached as shown and I've never removed it from the sword. However it is much too good looking compared to the sword so I assume it might not be original to the sword, or at least not the one with which it came from the factory.

Bit of a disclaimer, I'm quite new with limited experience and knowledge (normally just lurk and try to learn), however, I thought this might be of interest considering the topic. I'm an amateur smith and had a chance to acquire what appeared to be some unfinished blades. I thought it would be great to see and study some original pieces prior to polish, as I've never been able to see anything much "rough from the anvil". They were listed as pre Showa, (again... grain of salt here) and one in particular did appear to get the first stages of file/polish, but a flaw may have indeed halted the finishing?

I finally got my last years purchase from Mokuhankan framed-great deal and great service.

Here is a chunk of a spine missing from Nanbokuchō period naginata that has been attributed to Ko-Uda. It is about 2 cm piece missing. I know for many flaw like this would be unacceptable but it doesn't really bother me. I will rather have flawed item like this that I like in my collection than a pristine item that does not interest me.

Being realistic, I don’t think we as a Forum can do anything that will significantly change things. It is the restriction on the number of swords that a modern smith is allowed to make that creates the difficulty so perhaps we should be looking to lobby the Japanese Govt. to change these restrictions? ….but in reality….it would be to no avail. It is bizarre that artificial restrictions are imposed on some of Japans most talented artisans that are admired the world over. I wonder if the NBTHK or any other Japanese sword organisations have tried?

Well if it’s one piece construction that rules out core steel! In your last photo enlarged below the features do appear to be abrasions or scouring of some sort and they do run at a strange angle. But again….images….

Welcome Jay, you should find plenty of information on Kunihiro tsuba in these threads. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/394955466723

Hi Jay, Looks to be Japanese and reads Kunihiro, I believe. Cheers, Grey

Thomas, in some way You are right, it’s the same old story of supply and demand. There was a time, I also thought gaining a papered piece is the top of bliss. But someday I had the opportunity to buy something and asked if it is papered. The seller asked me in return, if I do collect papers? At this point I became grounded and I possess many pieces today without paper. Nice to have them, but it is more important to recognize the quality of a piece itself. Alas, many folks are still blended by papers or even worse demand them to be sure. BTW: The limitations at the shinsa is a result of missing judges, too. I think if they had enough board members, they could manage the flood of submissions as well… Florian

Small reduction to 3100USD + shipping (100USD to the US/Europe). Blade detail:

I have a tiny little boxed Higo Zogan folding mekugi-nuki, given to me years ago, far too nice to actually risk using. :headbang: 🈲️ Pic to follow .....