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You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is. And this isn't some warm-and-fuzzy tree hugging everyone-is-a-winner forum. It's for serious collectors and enthusiasts. People we WANT to be the caretakers of Nihonto for the future. People who WANT to learn. Not people who take the attitude "I don't care what you guys think, this is what I am going to do" Lose new members? Tough. I'm not running a popularity contest. People with the balls to take criticism and learn from it will still be here a year later. Most won't because that's not what they are here for. They want people to say "What a wonderful rusty piece of metal, you are so cool" If you don't know about the National treasures that have been found, identified and saved by collectors, or the top grade swords out of polish found at sword shows that ended up going Juyo...that's for you to go research. We have nothing to prove, and we aren't here to promote amateurs buying project blades so that they can sand them down and etch out a hamon. Go to Facebook. But not the serious Nihonto groups there either. They will tell you the same thing. Not going to change, if you don't like it...you know the deal. And don't throw the "discouraging potential new collectors" at me. Plenty of the guys here saying the same thing as I am were novices here a few years ago. If they have the interest, they will read and listen, and not argue. Those are the guys that are now the ones giving good advice. Your opinion only counts when it makes sense. Otherwise it's just noise. Am I clear enough?

For anyone who wants to try polishing blades and thinks it can't possibly be that difficult, there is an almost infinite supply of forlorn, rusty old yanagiba and deba for next to nothing on Yahoo Auctions Japan, with no value as anything other than tools and no risk of destroying an object of artistic merit. I think you'll find that even restoring a 20cm kitchen knife to a neat finish free of rust, with correct hamaguri geometry and crisp shinogi, and an even natural stone kasumi polish, is an art of its own, even though it pales in complexity compared to sword polishing.

Hi John, in the EDO period, the Japanese had iron casting technology, and it was mastered in very good quality. They had furnaces to heat up iron to its melting point (1.538°C), and of course they would have been able to cast small objects like TSUBA! They used the "lost mold" (not 'lost wax') technology learned from the Chinese, and it was not the same as our modern 'sand-casting', but for the molds they used a mixture of clay and sand to produce a fine surface. The problem in the discussion here about this subject is the lack of knowledge about iron casting and annealing, but also about Japanese history. Making a mold for casting is a lot of work. You have to make a 'master object' first, considering the shrinkage of the desired final object. Using this, a two-piece mold was made that had to be heated up for casting so the molten iron could run freely into the finer structures. After cooling, the mold had to be destroyed to 'free' the cast object. Cleaning and cutting-off sprues and air-ducts had to follow, together with careful filing-off casting seams. Annealing to make the objects less fragile was an additional process, necessitating fuel (charcoal) and furnaces, adding to the production costs. This single-item process was labour-intensive, not resulting in cheap mass-production! Only when industrial steel production came up in the late 19th century, chill-casting was invented which allowed mass-production and low item prices. In EDO JIDAI, there was no demand for cast iron TSUBA that could be substantiated. "Normal" people (so-called 'commons) had no use for TSUBA, and wealthy people could afford traditionally made ones. Generally in the Japanese culture, hand-made objects were (and are) highly appreciated. Mass-produced small 'art' items are still considered trinkets or giveaways today. The other side should also be looked at: Forging was a well established craft in Japan, as we all know. Forging a TSUBA blank is really easy and not time consuming, and they used simple iron for it which had good toughness as opposed to cast iron. We know that not all TSUBA were made by a single workshop, but some traditions/schools used ready-made blanks and decorated them in a more artistic way. Coming to your post, we have to differentiate between "smelting" and "melting". You can feed an OROSHIGANE kiln with old iron objects that were originally made from TAMAHAGANE. The result would then be a kind of bloom looking very close to a TAMAHAGANE bloon (= KERA), differing possibly only in the carbon content. There is no melting intended in this process! Of course you can also use scrap iron of any alloy type in an OROSHIGANE kiln, but the resulting bloom would not have the properties of TAMAHAGANE and could not be treated the same way. The main purpose of this special process besides the recycling is to control the carbon content. With this short abstract, I have only scratched the surface of these technologies, but I wanted to show that throwing assumptions and guesses around is never a basis for true research. Often, the reality is not what we want it to be.

What the hell is the difference between buying a $100 sword on a police auction and buying a $100 sword on eBay? You seriously going to use that as a valid reason for anything?

Im curious how this topic has devolved into something strictly monetary. Having read this entire thread, a couple of times now, it seems to me that the main points being conveyed are as follows: 1. If you're not planning to learn how to properly restore nihonto traditionally, the majority here recommend you DON'T try. This has NOTHING to do with potentially owning a masterpiece, it's about respect for the art. 2. If you choose to attempt restoration of nihonto through means other than traditional, the majority here will not support your efforts with information on how to do so. 3. If you are looking for political correctness and/or praise for your non-traditional methods, there ARE sites out there where you will find it, but this is not one of them. This of course is my interpretation and I am unaware of any official poll that has determined actual majority opinion here, so please feel free to correct me if I have presumed too much.

I don’t think you are really listening…..read this thread….and then you might, just might understand.

I am joining this thread a little late. Chrysanthemums have been a theme I have enjoyed over the years. Had quite a few of all types. Some very valuable (Hikozo). Some not so expensive. My favorite iron 16 petal iron chrysanthemum tsuba. Not easy to tell, but this one is a bit concave.

Very good points about respect @Hokke I figured they had already threw respect out the door, so a monetary argument might be more convincing . To everyone else, I just don't get it.. Has Brian not been crystal clear on the topic? Another downvote, Dan? Jeez. -Sam

鐔(鍔)－ t-362 鐔 八代甚吾 桜に流水の図 鉄地銀象嵌 －　日本刀の通信販売　明倫産業株式会社

Minatogawa...

I have been watching some videos lately about modern sword smiths in Japan and the struggles they face. What does everyone think about having a raffle and the $ goes towards commissioning a new sword from one of the smiths?

Dan, there was a time when I half thought of you as type of modern day Darwin with your theories about cast tsuba and battling on in the face of adversity, hostility and ridicule…..but I did admire you for battling….although not when you resorted to KMA etc. But surely, given your experience with tsuba you must realise the vast difference between the finish that is applied to swords compared to iron tsuba. The weeks and weeks of careful skilled finishing work that produces a geometrically perfect highly refined work of art. The knowledge that different stones work differently on different blades. Couple that with the many ways swords are constructed and the assorted steels involved and the different approaches that that requires……again …….surely you can see the difference? Polishers study and practice for many years and even then some never become masters. Put simply, it is very very easy to inflict unrecoverable damage to a blade, nowhere near so easy to inflict that level of damage to an iron tsuba…..unless you are a total idiot. Please convince us that you do have that understanding.

I believe I have read somewhere on this forum that there is simply no place on this forum for anyone practicing or advocating amateur polishing??????

Paul is already on the case... Shin Gobankaji Project

Like the post from Curran, this Tsuba is also concave both sides (Hoiteibara)

Remembered I had this 16-petal one in the mix. Came off a mismatched very poor koshirae. I know nothing about it and really never gave it much thought.

I feel one issue for the bulk of rusty swords is that you can buy similar level blades in polish for cheaper than professional restoration costs would be. Many of the items are also below the level that professional polishers would preferably work on. If it would be financially profitable people would be buying these items and having them restored. However there is not much demand for example lower quality mumei wakizashi be it Shintō or Kotō. Therefore you would just lose money in having these professionally polished. Of course it would be amazing that each and every sword would be salvaged but for majority of the lower end items it is just not financially feasible. Personally as I know I cannot afford restoration of items I just look for an item that is in condition that is acceptable for myself. Now I think the different view that people might have is what to do with items that do not deserve professional polisher? For that I don't have an answer as I don't really even look at items in really bad condition, if it is not something like an ōdachi or a big naginata. Would be amazing to be a treasure hunter but with tiny budget it is not happening.

That came across wrong!!!! I meant his suggestion was a seriously good idea…..NOT POLISHING BLADES!! I thought I’d quoted the whole post! Sorry folks. I’ll go stand in the corner.

Well, it comes from me, because i'm the one who said what you copy/paste quoted. You said you used sandpaper and steel wool, which, in my view, is a step further than simple rust mitigation or non-invasive rust removal.

Nobody is ever going to agree that someone untrained should polish a Nihonto here on NMB. Nihonto is not only art, but also culturally important. Many sword polishers (togishi), and smiths, dedicate their lives to the craft, and sacrifice A LOT to do it. Not to mention that particular sword may have history you're completely unaware of. I just think what you're proposing is ill-advised, but also disrespectful to history, culture, and the ancient+modern craftsman. https://japaneseswordindex.com/togishi.htm I'm not worried you'll ruin a great blade. I'm worried you're establishing a mindset of altering antique artifacts for no other reason than personal satisfaction. I'm worried that people will read this, and think "hey why not try myself, he did it!" Dan, what you're saying and showing is irresponsible and harmful to the hobby.

I can take criticism and I've been around. I bought my first swords over 40 years ago and consulted with Hawley on provenance. This was before his collection got stolen. I've cut opals from all over the world and met the miners. I've bought jade in Myanmar and in China on the Jade River from scavengers. Cutting opal and jade is a lot like shaping and polishing a Japanese sword - thin layers, different characteristics, polish very differently. I've made custom jewelry which is very similar to repairing and making small sword fittings. My first attempt at lacquer was surprisingly successful. I can get the polishing down to a hamon, but I and not satisfied how it looks although I follow Takaiwa's book and vary how far down I take the rust spots I've built weapons from AKs and HKs to M2HBs from parts. I've collected rugs until I got priced out of the market. So I like to do things and try to understand what the original creators did and how they did it. And that requires practice. I always fail the first time but usually catch on. The knowledge and skills learned are just as important as the objects. And yes I have some nice swords that I would not touch. These are my standards to work toward. I find all this craft work satisfying in my retirement because it is so different from what I did for money. Anyone want to buy my $100 dollar Ebay rusty blade for $5000? You could find a National Treasure. What would it cost to find out? Give it a shot. This so reminds me of the time I joined the Concord Minutemen thinking it was a drinking society and found out all they did was research how many paces per minute the original Minutemen marched and how their uniforms were stitched. I did march in Nixon's inaugural parade and it was cold and I was the only one with a flask in my ammo bag. Those guys had no common sense and I quit shortly after. So let's agree to disagree for a while while I see if you have anything to teach me. I'm open to learn. Technology, techniques, styles, history, genealogy, history, language. If you are worried I will ruin a great blade, teach me how to identify it; without gambling my life savings on fees. Enough said on this topic.

會津 is the old way of writing 会津 as in Aizu Wakamatsu. 會陽 may refer to the general area, (although there are other places in Japan which used these Kanji ‘Kaiyo’ or ‘Aiyo’). But Aizu Shoami are well-known.

More on this subject when I get a sword back from lending out to a mate... BaZZa.

Adam posted at the same time another nice set. Looks like good quality daishō koshirae and 2 good blades by Hosokawa Masayoshi. In here you can also see the swords have almost successive numbering so they were sent to a same shinsa session by I believe by same person. I think they might have been tried as a daishō but there is a large gap between the production of the blades. However to me this is also a very good daishō set that I would be very happy happy to own.

The set at Mandarin Mansion is amazing and owning a set like that would be great. To me it is a daishō set in total regardless what the NBTHK says. The blades were sent to NBTHK together but papered separately, hence the successive numbering. So theoretically the swords are not daishō without the koshirae, so they didn't paper them to same paper. You can also see this successive numbering sometimes when dealers have sent in items as their items have rolling numbers. Looking at the pictures both blades are very high quality and the daishō koshirae seems very high quality so an amazing package.

Happy the year of 蛇 Snake! a perfect first-piece-of-the-year to share for a great beginning 三尺刀 Sanjaku-to (swords with 3 Shaku blade length) itself is already very rarely seen in Nihonto market, which most of them are stored in museum, Jinja shrines and private collections, not to mention a fully mounted 大太刀Odachi/ 野太刀Nodachi like this particular piece this sword has a Nagasa blade length of around 三尺五寸 3 Shaku 5 Sun (~106cm) and a full length of 五尺一寸五分 5 Shaku 1 Sun 5 Bu (~156cm), solid, healthy and strong. As a size refefence, the Katana with black 天正拵Tensho Koshirae has a Nagasa of over 2 Shaku 4 Sun (~73cm), the Katana with purple 突兵拵Toppei Koshirae has a Nagasa of around 2 Shaku 3 Sun (~70cm) the Koshirae is mounted with 一作 Issaku full set copper fittings, including the 笛巻塗りFuemaki-nuri style Saya which is reinforced by over 50 copper rings! Combined with the dark 青貝Aogai lacquerwork in between the copper rings, with such extrodinary length, the overall Saya design reminds me of the image of a large slithering python. The long, large and thick Tsuka is mounted with a set of large 大目貫O-menuki in the design of 蛇Hebi snake, which the large iron Tsuba has gold inlay of 北斗七星Hokuto-Shichisei "Big Dipper". Photo records of such pieces are very rare to find, and personally, I would definitely want to see more of such samples published on internet for the sake of study and enjoyment. Hope you enjoy the photos, and hope a great year of snake is waiting!

Few problems. The logistics and time involved for the forum. Also the fact that Paypal doesn't allow raffles, and that is really the only easy way to do payments. The profit for the smith really wouldn't change their circumstances for very long either. Plus you'd need a go-between to work with the smith and the forum. Not an easy task. If we had someone connected to the Japanese smith world, would be better to do a deal for a run of kogatana with nice hamon, that can be done as a pre-order for the NMB and maybe be a special NMB project. Or something like that. But again, needs someone as a go-between.

Mokuhankan is a marvellous shop in Asakusa. It is owned by David Bull. David is an extraordinary Artist and his creation of Mokuhankan is a peaceful and inspiring space amidst the hustle and bustle of Asakusa.

(Joining Curran.) Fairly large iron 24-petal chrysanthemum tachi(?) tsuba. Sold as daishō, but they are not exactly identical.

I believe this one belongs in this post. Large thin katana sized , believe diameter is close to 9 cm. Can see faint signs of a mei, not sure on age/scool.

@KungFooey Dee, your Akao tsuba is obviously legit and has a correct mei. There's absolutely no reason to doubt that your tsuba was made by that group of smiths. Do not waste your money on Shinsa for this tsuba. The money you'll you spend on papers for this will NEVER get recouped. You may as well just throw the, what is it now $250USD?, in the toilet and be done with it. Better still, give it to a charity of your choice so that your hard earned money is put to good use rather than giving it to some kind of flawed, predatory tosogu appraisal society. You're free to spend your money however you see fit of course, but that's just my advice. And welcome aboard by the way... don't let the dipshits dissuade you @Shugyosha, that's a great idea about disallowing people on someone's block list from using the anonymous emoji icons on that person's posts. If they choose to make a comment, they should post in words and have their profile name attached to it... at least there's some accountability that way.

Arrogance is some guy named "Joe" buying a hundred dollar rusty blade on ebay, who doesn't have a clue that the rusty $100 blade he just purchased may actually be a $5,000 blade, or a $50,000 blade, or perhaps even a $100,000 blade, because it's all the same to him after all, who then, without the proper training in the art of kantei, and without any formal training in the art of Japanese sword polishing, goes ahead and puts that blade to stone somehow believing (who knows what, really), that he can save this blade, make it look acceptable again, a blade that might be as thin as 3mm, which leaves absolutely no margin for error in correcting and reshaping the foundation, and then, ooops!, he removes the last bit of metal that was needed to have it properly restored and saved. And if you don't believe that it can happen you would be wrong. In fact it has happened to collectors and even amateur polishers that should have known better. https://www.nihontoc..._Sword_Polisher.html

Welcome to the forum, Joe. If you have the patience and interest to learn properly about Japanese swords, we hope you can join us in the descent from Mt. Stupid.

Just want to share the photos for the sake of study and reference, I'm a bit frustrated that photo references of such pieces are very rarely find on the open internet, hope this help

Greetings to All, Recently, I acquired a rather rusty tsuba as part of a deal for a Washida tsuba with another collector. This piece was thrown into the arrangement by the seller to meet the requested price range. Despite its condition, it showed some promise. The tsuba is signed Kyozan Mitsunaka + (Kao) ({嚮山 光中(花押)}) in kin-zogan. Based on the pictures, it appeared to feature brass hira-zogan of peonies and arabesques. Despite the rust, none of the inlays seemed to be missing - testament to the craftsmanship. The subject and execution also align well with works by Washida Mitsunaka or the Washida school. Seeing its potential, I decided to accept the deal, and both tsuba landed on my desk. Believing the piece was worth restoring, I sent it to Manuel @C0D for restoration, and I wasn't disappointed. Manuel did an outstanding job removing the rust and re-patinating the brass. If Manuel would like to elaborate on the restoration process, I would welcome it. The gamble paid off, as the final result is quite pleasing. As you can see, the tsuba has been brought back to life: I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Regards, Luca P.S. I have to thank Manuel for allowing me to use the pictures he made.

Here is a 28..Momoyama probably but I'm not sure.

Here is one of mine, a ko kinko tsuba.

Interesting thread, Kiku is certianly a very popular theme for tsuba. Here is one of mine, a Ko-Kinko Yamagane Kiku-Gata tsuba with 28 petals, which dates to the mid Muromachi period. Tom

Another banger up for grabs here NMB, Abe Anjin is a Bizen master who has reached a nearly mythical status due to his unique forms and dazzling firing effects. Working in an Anagama that is completely underground and built into a hillside, it reaches extremely high temperatures that nearly melt the clay body itself. This results in the stunning and coveted shiso purple tones which overflow with "goma", or sesame seed toned natural ash glaze runs. His pursuit of recovering the mystery of Ko-Bizen ware led to not simply firing pieces to look like old Bizen on the surface, but to recreate the actual firing process behind these legendary wares. A true pioneer who modern Bizen ware owes a great deal to. Comes with its original cloth and two boxes - a typical inner and a very deluxe outer, something that is only reserved for the very best of pieces. Measures 7x6cm and is in excellent condition as shown. Guinomi from this arist at new exhibitions tend to break $1k, this one is priced at $350 shipped to the USA. International buyers please contact me for a quote. Thanks for looking! 🙇

I assume you identified the blade before you set about it? Please tell me the school/age/smith etc involved. …..or did you just set about it in total ignorance?

Thank Jean, that is exactly why I went for it! It is hard to see from the image, but both Hitsu-ana are added in the same way.

No longer owning the sword, this is the best I can do.

Sorry to reanimate an old thread, but this wonderful table caught my eye and matches in here: This display contains Tsuba of the Halberstadt collection in the Design Museum in Copenhagen, Denmark https://designmuseum...n/press-room-wonder/ Best, Florian

Item No. 69 - Kozuka in shibuichi with gold , silver , copper and shakudo Subject of crane and pine , with rising sun on rear. The shibuichi ground has almost an iridescence , from the silver content . Another of these pieces that glow in the hand , very difficult to portray through photos. Signature - Tomei with kao . The kozuka was taken to Japan in 2009 , when we visited the DTI and a TKK gathering , to canvas opinions on this and some other pieces , amongst other things. Three Japanese sensei looked at it and said that they could not decide on authenticity and it should be sent to shinsa . I asked them not to be just polite about it , but they said they weren't and really could not decide - I still think they were being polite about it... As usual , any help with Wakayama images or other pointers would be gratefully received - Thanks ! Hopefully these pictures will give an idea of the quality of workmanship.

Item No. 67 - Iron Tsuba with gold and copper details 6.33 cm x 5.93 cm x 0.54-0.96 cm Subject of wasp emerging from cavity in tree - unsigned , thought to be Nara school - any ideas ? Beautifully detailed piece , texturing on tree bark is particularly well done. Bought from an American dealer 10-12 years ago.

Item No. 63 Iron tsuba with gold inlay - 8.13 cm x 72.4 cm x 0.47 cm Modern made tsuba by Ford Hallam , about 14 years ago , subject of Orchids against a textured background , reminiscent of Natsuo style. A few views under different lighting conditions.

Item No. 55 - Iron Tsuba with remnants of gold highlights - 7.93 cn x 7.74 cm x 0.39 cm For lovers of Old Iron -described as Ko Shoami from Muromachi Period (1393 - 1575 ) - The surface showing very fine tekotsu and a lot of nie. I believe these are referred to as drain cover tsuba ? Acquired about 12 years ago from a U.S. dealer.

Item No. 51 Tsba in Shibuici with gold, silver and shakudo detailing 7.64 cm x 7.53 cm x 0.49 cm Two butterflies , three spiders webs and large dragonfly on a fine Ishime ground. Signed Nara Tadashige and Jochiku with a kao . This is therefore a dai-saku work from the Nara and Murakami Schools from the 19th cent. Looks considerably better in hand than in photographs - the very fine Ishime giving a matt surface finish , very evenly applied . The webs glow and almost jump out from the tsuba in the right light and the detailing on the insects is very well done. Just as a bonus , the dragonfly's eyes are inlaid with a striking green iridescent mother of pearl/ abalone , that really stand out . Have been unable to place Nara Tadashige - does not appear to be shown in the genealogies book . Also there are two artists shown as signing Jochiku in the Murakami school.... Any Haynes or Wakayama references would , as usual , be much appreciated.

Item No. 37 Iron Marugata Sukashi Tsuba 7.00cm dia. x 0.43 cm thick Subject of Maple leaves in positive and negative silhouette. Signed Yoshikuni , unknown school / era.... Simple but effective motif especially when viewed straight on against a light background , as second pair of pictures.