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I admit I have always liked the kantei threads a lot and made few of them over the years. So I thought it would be also fun to start a year with one. Unforutunately I don't have any items in my collection that I could post as a kantei item, I will improvise from the massive amount of books I have. This is not too serious as the pictures are far from perfect and my text description is not either. This is supposed to be fun experience and possibly make you open a book or 2, some may of course get it correctly by just quick glance. Then of course after the reveal we can have some discussion in the thread. I will post the answer some time on 11.1.2025. I don't know my schedule for that day yet, so it can be any time during the day. Type: Tachi Nagasa: 77,3 cm Sori: 2,2 cm Motohaba: 2,5 cm Sakihaba: 1,5 cm Kissaki: 2,1 cm Nakago: 18,0 cm This is a shinogi-zukuri tachi with iori-mune. It is narrow style and width of moto and saki are different. Sugata picture is shown. Jigane is tight ko-itame hada. Hamon is shallow ko-midare with some ko-chōji. There is yaki-otoshi. Bōshi is thin ko-maru. Unfortunately, my pictures of hada and hamon are not showing details and I do not have the knowledge is tiny details to give more accurate description. There is horimono as seen in the picture. Horimono are commonly seen in works of this smith. Nakago is ubu and has 3 holes and there is a long signature. Usually this smith signed katana-mei.

Not sure if it helps but here is soon to be my 8th Gen Tadayoshi (currently being outfitted in Japan). It has NBTHK TH papers as well. Personally I find the hada to be mesmerizing.

Thank you for entrusting me with this restoration, at first it looked quite serious but after removing the oxidation I found that the original patina underneath was pretty much untouched by corrosion, also the zogan was rock solid in position, a testament to the quality of the work from this tsubashi. So I just had to make a new patina on the brass and stabilize the iron patina. It was a pleasure bringing back to life this excellent work.

Hi everyone needing some help if possible. I recently acquired this sword from a friend who’s father had bought it back from WW11 and it’s sat in his cupboard ever since, Sadly his dad passed away at age 100 in 2023. Thanks Glenn

Greetings to All, Recently, I acquired a rather rusty tsuba as part of a deal for a Washida tsuba with another collector. This piece was thrown into the arrangement by the seller to meet the requested price range. Despite its condition, it showed some promise. The tsuba is signed Kyozan Mitsunaka + (Kao) ({嚮山 光中(花押)}) in kin-zogan. Based on the pictures, it appeared to feature brass hira-zogan of peonies and arabesques. Despite the rust, none of the inlays seemed to be missing - testament to the craftsmanship. The subject and execution also align well with works by Washida Mitsunaka or the Washida school. Seeing its potential, I decided to accept the deal, and both tsuba landed on my desk. Believing the piece was worth restoring, I sent it to Manuel @C0D for restoration, and I wasn't disappointed. Manuel did an outstanding job removing the rust and re-patinating the brass. If Manuel would like to elaborate on the restoration process, I would welcome it. The gamble paid off, as the final result is quite pleasing. As you can see, the tsuba has been brought back to life: I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Regards, Luca P.S. I have to thank Manuel for allowing me to use the pictures he made.

Looks like Minamoto Yoshitsune and Benkei on the Gojo bridge…..they had a bit of a disagreement there.

Rob, thanks for comments. I use Microsoft Publisher so can cut and past pics and text (e.g. from NBM) then edit and format. The text takes most time and need to find the info, then check and cross-check Japanese and kanji (this is a challenge but my wife is very helpful, and patient!). Also a lot of confirmation is needed. But also lots of help and input e.g. @Kiipu , @Bruce Pennington and others. When you go for the hols, be sure to take Parts 1 and 2. I hope these papers will be a useful start for future studies. Mal

Here is a funny one I've found during my search.

Dan, I don’t think there’s anything unusual about this tsuba; you might be overthinking it a bit. And, of course, the motif wasn’t hand-carved on the tsuba.

Hi Sam,

Lots of people here talk the talk, just nice to see someone walk the walk. Also extremely kind of them to share their collection from time to time. As said, some folks here moan that all we see is junk and there is never ever any good stuff. Well, there you are, good stuff. People should be able to present quality items here without a running commentary that ruins it. To me, just comes across as envy and i wish they would just shut up and go and read a book or something.

I agree. Everyone has their own priorities and interests. I know a lot of people who dismiss all Japanese military swords as "trash". I, on the other hand, am very interested in them because they are the last military swords intended to be used in battle in the era of modern mechanized war. Which alone makes them very interesting in the history of swords and other bladed weapons. These "official souvenirs" seem to be actually commissioned by 8th Army very soon after the war and thus have their own very interesting tale in the big picture.

@mecox Just fantastic Mal ... gosh there is some work and great information in these. Information aside, I dont know who does your type/formatting but what a great job.... congratulations on that aspect as well. It's coming to Victoria with me for the School hols - Grandkids minding duty (I will find time) Rob

G'day Glenn, Your sword is signed Hiromitsu, I believe. The sword appears to be an older sword, that has been shortened (Suriage+ Machiokure). It's hard to guess the age from your photo's, however, as a guess I would say mid Muromachi period. circa 1500.

Dan, for sure you should explore this... but do not lose sight of the knowledge that fires were very common in Edo Japan... you will need to prove that this was done purposefully (which I personally do not believe) as opposed to "accidently" caught in fire incidents (which I do believe is the case)

In high school many years ago we learnt about re-heating sand-iron and how it forms a shell... i forget the context of why we learnt this, and I don't care enough today to look into it further (happy new year by the way!) But a quick gpt brings up this: Click for clearer image. So it could be this too...

宗兵衛 (?) Sōbei (I have found two who signed with this name, one in Asakusa, Edo, and the other in Satsuma.)

The key piece of information is that Hankei carved his signature and did not chisel it (see the pictures in Jean's link) - I am sure this is why folks are skeptical of the signature... -t

Going back a long time ago in a Nihonto galaxy far far away………we took “chisa katana” to mean a sword that was just a bit short of the then accepted minimum length of a katana. The variance was not to my knowledge ever defined so we all had our own opinions.Then there was O-wakizashi (how that differed from Chisakatana was a mystery). Then O-Tanto (probably the aforesaid sun nobi Tanto in today’s speak. By “we” I mean the scattered enthusiasts that existed mostly outside London some 45 years ago. There was more informed opinion in the Token Society which was largely London orientated but we outsiders still had a ball. Some of the stories we could tell….😳….in fact that would make a great topic maybe….? Some of you fellow members wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry or just wish you were there back then. Imagine a world with no internet, no mobile phones let alone iPhones. The only books were Ogasawara, Yumoto, Robinson and if you were very very lucky, Hawley. Anyway enough end of year rambling. If you read this….Happy New Year!

Superb job, Manuel. This piece has come back to life straight from the junk box. Washida Mitsunaka has produced several tsuba of this kind like https://www.metmuseu...lection/search/23060

There are a lot of silly, redundant questions and questions about horrible blades posted for discussion here on this forum every day. Jacques has been here to answer them in his unique and not very sociable style for a long time now. You can ignore him, if you want to, but his theoretical knowledge is worth listening to. I wish he could find a less confrontational language in his posts, but then, he is who he is. Better listen to an angry, honest voice than to the ignorants and the crooks everywhere. reinhard

Here is one of my tsuba with a similar umbrella but not the rain. Mei : Sadahiro

Most of these motifs attached to tsuba are made of softer metals. They are carved separately first and then soldered onto the tsuba using various techniques. The filling is most likely lead. Lead turns red under certain amounts of heat, or one side may have just been painted with urushi. Someone may have experimented with this piece recently, as it’s a very low-end tsuba, which makes it perfect for experimentation.

What better way is there to start the new year than with some gendaitō reading material. Mal & Co., Ltd have thoroughly revised the two part treatise on Japanese naval swords. This was a major, full-time, undertaking by Mal & Sueko that took months to accomplish and the results speak for itself. Do give Mal a big thanks for all that he has done via the download pages linked to below. Lets support those that help us be better informed collectors. Cox, Malcolm E. Japanese Naval Swords, WW 2: Swordsmiths & Workshops. Part 1. Updated. 2024. A4 size, color illustrations, 132 pages. Japanese Naval Swords Part 1 Cox, Malcolm E. Japanese Naval Swords: Swordsmiths & Workshops. Part 2. Upgraded. 2024. A4 size, color illustrations, 166 pages. Japanese Naval Swords Part 2

i know this sword it's a rare one with a tachi mei, it's signed 豊後國行平作

Yes, especially at this stage in his career. Remember, this is very early Watts, he was only 24 years old at the time of writing and probably still a bit green to the true depth and complexities of the topic at hand.

Thank you for posting this Luca, what a wonderful result. I think it shows your good eye in noticing this being worth of restoration and Manuel doing amazing work with this.

This must have been a huge work. I am so glad you decided to share it with us. Very much thank you.

I for one would love to hear… I have to satiate myself with the “fag ends” of this era, which my father was very much a part of when it came to Rigbys Purdeys and HH rifles but sadly not Japanese swords. Happy New Year Colin.

I am doubting the external finish is soft, but instead,very hard and brittle.... as per the info in the second half of the gpt image I shared. The Tsuba example I gave earlier in the thread is like this, some flaked off years ago and it was way harder than the iron interior, to the point that it didnt indent like iron should, but just "snapped"... i wish I had of put a magnet on it back then. Also, as per that second gpt part, it does make mention of coatings causing an encasement... take the finish look that it mentions with a grain of salt though.

I like the way this discussion is going. I’m looking forward to your microscope photos, Dan. I wonder… it looks pretty flakey to me. Did any of that outer material flake off in the packaging? Don’t damage it, but is any loose enough that it falls off? If so, you could see if the outer material is magnetic or not. It looks metal, but is it? Just some thoughts, Carry on, -Sam

Glen, I'm not ready to abandon the use of this tool for helping to define modern categorical distinctions between tsuba. AI produces what is, by its very intent, a synthesis of available data. It does not interpret, which is where we need to go next to discern what features might differentiate the categories that exhibit "Owari-Momoyama-ness." For example, the Ono guards are "more commonly" thick. Owari guards are sometimes as thick (>7 mm), but those are rare. I have to do a survey of that defining range and compare to other categories, but the point is that we need to do the rest of the leg work. There is never going to be an airtight set of attributes that we can point to and say, oh it's this, but I still think this approach can be helpful. What the ChatGPT synthesis (and it's likely also true for searches for Owari, Kanayama and Yagyu) does do quite well is to eliminates a lot of tsuba that have been attributed to Ono by individual collectors and/or NTBHK and which clearly do not exhibit this "Owari-Momoyama-ness," whether Ono or other Owari Province category. The results of the search does not apply to Yamakichibei, Hoan, Norisuke, Nobuie, or other Owari smiths. Here is another opportunity to subdivide, ie the Owari/Kanayama/Ono/Yagyu are a sub-group with related features, which is not a new concept and can be expected because of the close provincial geography of these workshops. I'll play around a bit more including a comparison with the Google AI profile, which has the added advantage of providing at least some of the key sources for the synthesis. I think that it may be possible to set up a table with attributes as the columns and tsuba categories (e.g. Owari, Kanayama, etc.) as the rows, and put check marks in the squares to see if a "bar code" comes out that is distinguishing. Some of the attributes may be shared. Others may actually be unique. And more aesthetic attributes should be included, although “stiff” versus “lively, fluid” needs to be better defined. Science and Art are not mutually exclusive, as I have written on and published before.

Interestingly enough, as is often the case with ChatGPT summaries, it is so broadly "distilled" as to be virtually unusable. It sounds good upon first reading, but seriously lacks detail. You could use that very same set of criteria that it listed for Ohno, to describe almost any of the school constructs that are grouped in with "Owari-Momoyama-ness": ie. Owari, Kanayama, and Yagyu tsuba (although Yagyu tsuba were later than the rest)... ,but it definitely does not describe Yamakichibei tsuba (where round shapes are the exception rather than the more typical mokko or lobed shapes, and irregular asymmetry in the sukashi pattern and execution is nearly always the norm). Note: I have tried ChatGPT many times in the past, and even made some past NMB posts using its results, only to discover multiple flaws and limitations of using ChatGPT ) Oh and, Happy new year by the way

Also similar to mine: Tsuba with design of peonies and arabesques Washida Mitsunaka (Japanese, 1830–1889) School: Shonai School (Japanese)JapaneseEdo period1847 Medium/Technique Main material: iron; other metals: silver; shakudo plugs; decorative technique: hirazogan Dimensions Overall: 8.4 x 8.1 x 0.3 cm (3 5/16 x 3 3/16 x 1/8 in.) William Sturgis Bigelow Collection Accession Number 11.12197 Signed Shonai no ju Washida Mitsunaka, with a kao; Koka yon hinoto-hitsuji natsu juhassai saku 庄内住鷲田光中（花押）弘化四丁未夏十八歳作 Provenance By 1911, purchased by William Sturgis Bigelow (b. 1850 - d. 1926), Boston [see note 1]; 1911, gift of Bigelow to the MFA. (Accession Date: August 3, 1911) NOTES: [1] Much of Bigelow's collection of Asian art was formed during his residence in Japan between 1882 and 1889, although he also made acquisitions in Europe and the United States. Bigelow deposited many of these objects at the MFA in 1890 before donating them to the Museum's collection at later dates. https://collections.mfa.org/objects/11916

Off to a new years party but will put up better pics tomorrow, thanks ken

They are what they are there is no questioning that. But the facts are we really dont know all the facts. In response to ro your commentary : We all want to know more and it is a study in progress.No need to belittle what you personally do not like. But that is your decision.Let us all strive together for the good of all involved. The more we know the better off we all are.

There are other expressions out there in use and waiting to be discovered, such as chiisagatana.

Thanks for sharing, Alex. Interesting article. Me thinks master Watts suffered a bit from the tendency to romanticize the samurai and the "old ways." While I am very minimally read in Japanese war history, I do recall reading about how farmers were conscripted for large armies and marched into battle. I suspect they were just as much cannon fodder as the enlisted troops of WWII. HIs complaint of the use of modern weaponry of mass destruction, having lost any sense of Zen, just wanton destruction, is too focused on the act of pulling the trigger. Their use on the grand scale, the tactical/strategic planner during WWII was no different than the samurai commander over an entire army that set his plan into action, using all the weapons and people at his disposal. There is no Zen in that. It is just strategy of war.

Hi Lewis, I don't think so in the west - I think Ray Singer answered a similar question recently with the conclusion that, as it is a special order sword, it would have received the smith's best efforts and superior materials and therefore be superior to his normal production. Not sure if that would be the case in Japan.

The answer is right there in your post. The character “刀” can be pronounced “tō” or “katana / gatana” meaning knife, but more accurately, meaning a *single edged blade*. “剑” or Ken is used to refer to double edged blades, hence when you combine the two you get the word 刀剑 or “Tōken”, implying the concept of both single and double edged blades - ie “swords” in general. The western notion that “katana” specifies a Japanese sword which is longer than both a tanto and a wakizashi but shorter than a tachi or odachi is true but also somewhat of a confusing simplification, enshrined now in classification by kantaisho but one we have become so accustomed to that we overlook it. In essence, what makes a katana a katana is when it’s a single edged Japanese sword which doesn’t fall into any of the other classifications. A “katana” is in fact the least specific of all blade classifications because it simply means it’s *not* defined as any of the others. Katana is the definition you are left with when you eliminate all other possibilities. Modelling knives in Japan are called kogatana, ko is simply 小 meaning small and 刀, meaning “small single edged blade” - exactly the same word as used for the kogatana that fit into kozuka and were carried as part of sword koshirae - but they are not the same thing. Now… the word 短, tan, which means “short” (as opposed to long) when combined with 刀 makes “Tantō” - the Japanese do not say “Tan-gatana” but they might as well. Short katana is sort of a direct but albeit confusing translation… But it gets weirder.. the earliest Japanese swords referred to as “katana” or gatana were no longer than around the size of a short wakizashi. These katana were the original “side swords” until society started to redefine what a side sword was, and the term wakizashi came much later.

“The exception proves the rule.” Really interesting subject, and there is much more to it, but Jean and Tcat above have just about deconfused it for us. (Traditional Nihontō classification and modern education committee bureaucratic classifications do not always agree on the fine detail. The latter is based more on mathematics. Most Japanese seem to ride with it when there are two answers.)

Rare occasion when he is quite wrong because he is using a quote from an English language source and using English language terminology which isn’t in fact technically applicable to the subject at hand. He should know better. Swords are measured and classified accordingly in shaku, sun, bu and rin. A sun-nobi tanto is a tanto which exceeds the prescribed length of a tanto by *around* one sun. That is to say, it looks like a tanto, walks like a tanto and sounds like a tanto, so it is in fact a tanto, which is why we call it a sun-nobi tanto, but the the authorities in their infinite wisdom *officially* record it as wakizashi on kanteisho. Pure semantics and classification debate which is removed from the actual use / technique and application of each type of weapon. Terminology loophole if you will.

maybe the use of kanji can help again. sun=寸=inch nobi=延=extend so sunnobi simply means extended by 1 "inch", which is not the current english measurement system. its old Japanese which is a bit longer than the english inch.

My last request for assistance unfortunately turned into "a sad, boring pantomime" (to paraphrase two of the last comments) and it was entirely my own fault. I fell down a stupid rabbit hole of trading insults and petty mindedness. I wish to sincerely apologize for that and would like to begin afresh - if any members here are still willing to help me. The attached seller's pictures are of a tsuba I just won on Yahoo! Auctions which will first be sent to my brother stationed in Japan, as per my previous purchases. I was attracted to it because of its rather unusual design and large, solid dimensions; Length = 8.95cm Width = 9.0cm Thickness = 0.55cm Weight = 157.84 g. Any comments on this tsuba would be most gratefully received, whether they are critical of it or not. I will not respond to anything unrelated to the tsuba itself. This includes small talk, personal comments and even flattery. I will also ignore any icons after my responses. As Brian rightly says, "this is not a popularity contest". If I receive any abusive PMs (as has happened previously), I will disregard them and immediately block the person responsible. Thank you in advance for any constructive remarks about this tsuba's provenance or age. Dee

Thanks for the video, Dee! They had me at "Samurai Swords" - looking at 13 gunto. Only 2 waki were likely old blades. In spite of the inaccuracies, I couldn't stop watching. Heck, there were 15 swords to drool over for 18 minutes! What's not to like!

There is an arrogance with some people here that believe they are a fountain of knowledge that we all need. we don't. People collect whatever swords they collect and there are already resources such as books, the internet and willing and friendly folks that assist without making a big deal. Been here many years now and from time to time notice the subtle knowledgeable folks that pop in on occasion. There are number of such folk that come here, folks like Jussi that give opinion and share useful data, others that obviously know what they are talking about but stay in the background. At a point now where im not big on learning much more, know what i need to know. In that respect wont bat an eyelid at blocking anyone who stands on a soapbox and comes across as an A-hole. If i want to know more with regards a future purchase then like anyone here, i can do that myself. Some people talk like they are a dealer in Tokyo that have handled thousands of swords from many many schools, its embarrassing. Rein it in, you know who you are. Personally, never learned anything from such a person, that's a fact.

Sorry for being an entry collector. Nihonto translated to english susposed to be Japanese Sword. Never bothered you guys with chinese copies. Its not required to read my topics, let alone you need to reply. Wish you all a healty 2025. Ivo

The 2024 UPDATE of Part 2 is now uploaded.

Knowledge above all, I'm not materialistic, I'm not interested in owning swords, and in any case I don't have the means for my ambitions. I have a small collection of knives, built up over 40 years ago, and I quickly realized how useless collecting was for me.

I don’t see anyone giving false hope or helpful words but neither did I see anyone giving helpful constructive comments or advice until Jacques felt obliged to explain himself. Better to try and explain what a “tired” blade is and why this looks like a very tired blade which to his credit Jacques has tried to do in his second effort although again he cannot resist attempting to assert his superiority (which is pretty pathetic and unhelpful against a beginner who is here asking for help) So yes, the blade has large areas of forging flaws and core steel showing. Yes the polish is not good with a heavy Hadori finish probably applied to hide or enhance a hamon that has been degraded by many polishes. So is a blade like this a useful learning piece?…..of course it is. Ivo now sees first hand with his own eyes some of the assorted issues that occur to greater or lesser extents on many blades. His eye will be greatly improved. …..and the best lesson and one that we all remember is the one we learned the hard way. We all started somewhere.