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Additional, better photos from the seller...

The Yamada family preferred the body in a lateral position (sokuga'i), as it allowed testing of Wakizashi and Tanto. Tests were conducted with special kiri-tsuka (there some mentions of specially weighted Tsuba used) which were to simulate Koshirae and assist with the cut as well. Wakizashi & Tanto were tested with this kiri-tsuka so they could be used in the same manner as a long sword. The practice of Tameshigiri by the large families was quite systematic and sophisticated for the time.

Now listed on ebay, one sincerely hopes a donation to the board will be made when sold? https://www.ebay.com/itm/146209295174?itmmeta=01JD9PE31C6SQ229VN35CGFMAT&hash=item220ac0cb46:g:UkwAAOSwiMFnPnqe&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4Mxmj%2BiGvOveHXEBClPb29hVAq0e4mZbTc54CyW%2FARak0i27YqDDHCBjyU81UNx3XShNnrOSnK32OvhobekMv4h7%2BeXK7r5Y7a1%2FxJHHz2KPUm2mrfanH%2FYMdTQxje0N4G%2FzOcjfohb%2BYnTzwXF6GiPqJgPS062qSC2CPWfjrsLKNv%2BjqF2GIr4wKqoD%2FnsKuIcgaJM%2FAHGlREjKcP5uVMqlvq0taUe9ZeS5FktrEXGJwC7f4zWGdUcj%2BCC6IPuOZiJO59qg8bXqvvMBkOgiQNcAJ17RC%2BZIFmb0PFVwFBjH|tkp%3ABk9SR-KwuLbqZA

Hmmm... Not sure where this idea came from, but it is quite inaccurate. There are a good handful of pre-Edo tsubako who regularly signed their works. Among them are the two Nobuiye, the two Kaneiye, the early Yamakichibei smiths, Hoan, Sadahiro, Umetada Myoju, Umetada Mitsutada, and Koike Yoshiro Naomasa. So, not only were there pre-Edo smiths who regularly signed their tsuba, but each of these artists is generally regarded as one of the very finest tsubako of any era in Japanese history. This doesn't have much to do with the OP's concerns, but I did want to respond to that statement for educational purposes...

Update on the Navy anchor stamp we have all been attributing to the Toyokawa Naval Arsenal. We no longer believe that to be the case, and think it is a generic Navy Inspection stamp, not specific to any arsenal. Thomas - @Kiipu - has been making this point for a few years, but it never caught my attention (chasing too many other rabbits at the time). So, he got Mal - @mecox - to listen and stir the pot. For decades, we have called it the Toyokawa Naval Arsenal stamp because of Ohmura's page and Richard Fuller showed it as such in his books. The chart on page 228 of his '96 edition came from someone or something before his work, and he now agrees with Thomas and Mal. -- The stamp, on swords, only appears on blades made by the Tenshozan factory. They are stainless steel blades made by Tenshozan (some stainless blades were made in Seki, but likely processed by Tenshozan). Two blades made at the Takayama forge have been found with the stamp. -- The circled anchor is also seen on things not associated with Toyokawa, like aircraft and electronics labels. -- No documented evidence could be found showing that Toyokawa was in any way associated with sword manufacturing, or processing, while it has been found for other arsenals like Sasebo, Maizuru, and Yokosuka. Mal is revising his Navy Swords articles, and the Stamps of the Japanese Sword document will carry this revision when it comes out next March. For the record, these are the stamps of the various arsenals. They were hand drawn by the original author and slightly inaccurate, but nothing that significantly impacts our point. The circled anchor is not on the list.

Tatsunao on eBay:

To add to what @oli said, definitely buy a blade with papers, but don’t buy a blade just because it has papers. As you study you find schools, periods, smiths, that excite you. Seeing swords in person will confirm or change your thoughts and you’ll form an idea of what excited you and you can find an awesome sword with a $12k budget.

Sorry to say it is a paperweight souvenir, it might be as old as 1980? - not made in the Muromachi [1336 to 1573] - a time when they didn't sign tsuba as far as I know. https://www.ebay.ca/itm/186730994595 I do hope your friend did not pay very much. The seller is either ignorant or a conman.

Glad to hear you're still kicking like a Marine Stephen. Agree, new blood is important and some quality new guys. This hobby is a strange one. Some old guys that I thought would collect forever faded out of the hobby, and moved onto other things. Some left social media completely (Can't say I blame them) And then we have natural attrition. And the fact that the average age in this field is so far above most other hobbies. We need the new guys. But with such a learning curve, few can put in the effort it takes to even get to novice status. After 20+ years, I still feel like a beginner. That's why events like the DTI and shows and social meet-ups are vital. And for those not aware, this guy @Stephen has been one of the most consistent supporters of this forum since the beginning. We owe him a lot.

A rarity Wakizashi: Mumei(Unsigned)(Omiya)with Saidan-mei(NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon Token) - Japanese Sword Shop Aoi-Art

One of the sections in Koichi's link of Ito Sanpei san's commentary caught my eye, which speaks to the issue of symbolism and meaning. He includes both sides of the enjoyable argument about the artist's intension (explicit vs. unknown/unknowable). I would argue that the more Buddhist the iconography, the more likely that the latter predominates. In my conversation with Ito Mitsuru, I don't think it's possible to make a tsuba that you can't explain the design of at that point when you make and sell it. Sellers also use sales pitches such as "This is a copy of XX, so it's good luck" or "It's popular in the capital right now". When making a tsuba to order, I think the customer specifies the design with a specific intention. However, there are many tsuba classified as Kanayama tsuba whose design intention is unclear at this point. In the introduction to the characteristics of Kanayama tsuba in "Open Tsuba: Beauty of Bushido" (by Sasano Daigyo), it is mentioned that "There are many square-mimi (square edges), thick tsuba, many tsuba with unclear meanings, and steel bones protruding from the tsuba edge, and they are small tsuba by design. "However, the designs of Kanayama tsuba from the Momoyama period, which is a later period, include the "Matsukawabishi tsukashi" in our collection, as well as "Tsurigake tsukashi," "Shining light tsukashi (clock tsuba)," "Lightning tsukashi," "Thunder pattern tsukashi," "Shadow scale tsukashi," and "Jojo tsukashi," and while the intention is unclear, there are aspects of the designs that are easy to understand. In modern times, it is called "unknown watermark", but I think it was a well-known design at the time. However, compared to the designs of other schools of swordsmen, such as old swordsmiths, old armorers, Kamakura, Heianjo inlaid tsuba, Owari watermark tsuba, and old Shoami tsuba, the Kanayama tsuba design is unique. I think that the reason for this uncommon design is that it was made with the assumption that it would be used within a certain organization (for example, a specific school of swordsmanship like the Yagyu tsuba, or for the warrior monks of a specific temple) rather than with the intention of selling it widely on the market... And of course many motifs were simply a family mon, which was stylized and abstract, but also symbolized some meaningful martial ideal, omen of good luck, or some utilitarian purpose that favored victory with perseverance and valor. I have just ordered Sasano Daigyo's book since it is so heavily referenced by Ito Sanpei san.

Kaneshige saku * feel better Brian

Fantastic info. Thank you @Kiipu @mecox and @Bruce Pennington for this research and advancing our knowledge. If sword blades with the anchor-in-circle stamp were made or processed at Tenshozan, is there any significance to the different anchor stamp that we already associated with Tenshozan?

Being evaluated.. https://www.touken-m...uct/shousai/TSU-2861

Mostly we are looking for a definitive, and thus satisfying explanation, in this particular case a Tsuba motif. But there are Japanese design motives which are intentionally unclear and could be interpreted in different ways. So everything You will see in it is correct! Maybe an artist created a Tsuba without the purpose to depict something. He has had just fun by playing with forms or varying existing ones. In these cases just enjoy the result and admire the beauty of shapes and surface. And the little secret not exactly to know what it means keeps it more interesting. Florian

You’re going to have to narrow your search a bit. What do you like? What do you want? What is your favorite smith/school/era/other. You’re not just buying a blade because it is Tok Hozon or because it is $12,000. If you walk into one of the larger dealer shops and say “I want to buy a blade for $12,000”, they will probably look at you and shrug their shoulders. They probably have as many $12,000 blades as $5,000 blades. A small shop may have 1 or 2 $12,000 blades and only show you what they have and you have to pick from that. Study until you know what you want FIRST.

There appears to be a little confusion. Stephen is not saying they are the same smith. What he is saying is that, he thought he had a Nagamitsu for sale, but it's Actually an Emura.

A ken from the Walters Art Museum with a closer looking handle. https://art.thewalte...er-lotus-decoration/ No dragon involved with this one I can see the rice bale idea on the tsuba though, so the handle could be modeled on that theme.

I recently acquired a new fuchigashira (been in my possession for about a week now) that I wanted to share with the forum. At this stage it is probably now the best piece in my collection and has been signed "Sozui". The mei appears to match one of the variations of Hamano Sozui's signature and from what I have read, Hamano Sozui would often create pieces with Japanese and Chinese folklore themes, so a Sojobo/Tengu design would fit his modus operandi. The work is a pretty high quality with an inlaid stone used for the eye of the Tengu figure as well which leads me to believe this might be an actual Sozui piece and not gimei... The pictures honestly don't do the piece justice as they were taken from my phone with 5x zoom and compressed to meet file size requirements but let me know what you all think!

I have wondered that, too, @nulldevice, especially when they reflect a multiple-body test. I only recently purchased Sesko’s book, so I haven’t read all its 378 pages. Here’s a partial answer from it about the process: “These special kiri-tsuka had not only the function to provide a more robust hilt but served also as additional weight. The heavier the blade the more power there was in the cut and the better a blade would cut into or through a target. Apart from that, kiri-tsuka were also used to test ko-wakizashi and tantō under the same conditions as long swords. Normally mounted, such blades are too short and too light to enter a test medium in a representative manner.” He also talks about using lead tsuba to increase the weight of ko-wakizashi and tanto. But I don’t yet know if he discusses the definition of a complete cut with these short blades.

If my friend Okan is correct [very likely ] - give that thing a big miss - try this one it is more interesting, genuine and a lot cheaper https://www.ebay.com/itm/296351643175

Yes rare. This is a katana I almost bought through Darcy back in 2021, but timing was bad after losing my job. Nanbokucho Sadatsuna with a cutting test and #62 Torokusho registration paper so early and Daimyo owned. Apart from a Kaneuji blade (#17) this is the earliest registration I've encountered. https://katananokura.jp/SHOP/1907-K01.html

What a great and interesting thread. Some great posts here and really awesome observations. I agree with Kirill: there is no clear solution to some of this debate. So much of collecting is like that old saying my mother had: "'It's all of matter of taste,' said the lady after kissing the monkey's bottom." And it is all a matter of taste. There are some obvious agreed on standards and facts, yes, but these shift over time. So, if you believe -- as some die-hard collectors do -- that everything after 1394 is Shinto, then even the most astounding Tadayoshi or Sukehiro or Kotetsu blade will not convince you that the sword is anything more than a nice "newish" folded, sharpened piece of steel. "Cute," as one Ko-Koto enthusiast commented about my Nosada tanto when I showed it to him years ago. On the other hand, if you believe, as some collectors do, that blades without verifiable signatures, are just a blank canvas on to which so-called experts can project their opinions, then nothing without a mei will move you, no matter how stunning the work, because -- as the Asahi Token website says -- "No inscription is no inscription, and it is impossible to determine the author." So - one more cliche - beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. But this thread started out about the market. And the market and taste don't always live in the same neighborhood. So, contrary to the views of Mr. Nakahara (of The Facts and Fundamental's of Japanese Swords, and the Asahi Token website,) a TokuJu O-suriage Ko-Bizen Masatsune Tachi will have no shortage of buyers and will not stay on the market very long, if it even goes to the market in the first place. whereas a good Shodai Tadayoshi might sit around for weeks or longer on a website before it is picked up. This has more to do with the market emotions -- supply and demand, perceived rarity, desirability and exclusivity -- than any comment on quality. And I agree with everybody who says, "collect what you like;" "look for the best condition you can find at your budget;" "buy the sword, not the papers." It is all well and good and true, because collecting is personal. But when the time comes that you might want to sell that piece or trade it for something better, it's is another story entirely. Now you are entering the world of the market. And again, I agree with Kirill: For the marketplace, attribution is quality, attribution is value, top tier papers are both, and that leads us back to the opening question of Lurkez. Since this thread started, I spoke to some dealer/broker friends in the U.S., Europe and Japan and all agree that those amazing pieces from the Kamakura and Nanbokucho like we see in books are becoming harder and harder to find. Many trusted and known collectors are now looking for them and they must put word out that they want them. Then they wait. And when a Juyo Hiromitsu becomes available, it does not go on a website; It is offered at steep prices directly to those collectors who have been waiting, bypassing the open market. This is hardly surprising. Thus, as I said in my earlier posts, yes, Lukrez's observations are largely true. But as the old cliche (God, I am full of them today) goes, "the Market abhors a vacuum." So, when the supply of one commodity runs low, the market looks for the next big thing to fill it, such as works that were previously overlooked or taken for granted, like Ukyo no Suke Katusmitsu, and other top Sue Bizen works. Then lo and behold, prices for Sue Bizen works start to climb and become desirable. Just look at the prices of good Bizen moroha tanto. A few years ago you could pick these up for between $2000 and $8000 (unless it had a zokumyo-mei Yosozaemon signature.) Today those prices -- from what I can see -- have doubled. Eventually these too will be even scarcer than they are today and thus more desirable and collectors will leave word with dealers wanting one and soon you won't see them on websites either. It's the market equivalent of the circle of life. In some ways, the market can be both cruel and democratic. But it's always been that way, responsive to trends and ever-shifting tastes of collectors, and kindest to those with the most cash.

@Dan tsuba I’m new to this hobby, but I don’t agree with you on that point. If you’re serious about this, I don’t think constantly looking for tsuba you can afford is the best way to learn. What’s wrong with buying a $500 tsuba instead of 2–3 $150 tsuba? Don’t you think you could learn more from better-quality pieces? Ebay, Yahoo, and Jauce are full of lower-level tsuba. A forum member once gave me similar advice regarding swords. He told me that if I was serious about collecting, instead of buying $1k–$2k swords, I should save up and aim for better names or schools. That way, I’d have higher-quality pieces in my collection(maybe not 10 but only 3) and could learn much more from them. I don’t know how many tsuba you currently have, but wouldn’t you rather have only 5 Tokubetsu Hozon papered ones instead of 50 lower-level ones? (I'm not qualified to judge, it's just a question)

That´s all, folks!

Let bygones be bygones - the guy has passed away for heavens sake.

Just a quick update: I´m working on it. In the meantime: Ko-Bizen Kageyasu. Signed, one hole, ubu.

Howard, dealing firstly with the construction, the dish itself will be copper and the rim and foot rim could be gilded copper or brass. Silver was rarely used for the actual body (apart from some ginbari enamels), not even by the likes of Namikawa or Hayashi. These dishes usually employ a brass alloy for the wires which is sometimes gilded. Silver wires are found on more expensive examples but from the images we can’t really tell what your wiring on the front is made from. The swirl pattern on the back will most likely be brass and the swirls are there to hold the counter enamel paste securely during firing. The reverse needs to be counter enamelled to keep it stable during firing or it distorts and cracks upon cooling. These plates and dishes were made in vast quantities during Meiji (this is Meiji C1890 ish) by numerous scattered studios and unless signed (very few are) it is not possible to pinpoint a maker…..there were many. They were aimed as usual at the gaijin market in Japan and later for mass export. The quality can vary hugely as can the aesthetics of the design. Hawks, falcons and owls were all massively popular subjects in Japan and yours shows a Goshawk (??haven’t actually checked the bird book) hitting a nest of sparrows. It looks a better quality piece with lovely colour graduation etc. The chick falling out of the nest is a bit sad🙂 Overall looks to be a better quality piece with a dramatic scene. ……hopefully not damaged?

Thanks for the kind words Stephen. This forum has been a wealth of knowledge for me. I'm certain I would've probably purchased 1-2 questionable blades by now had I not found this place. Thanks to much studying, good friends I've made along the way, and being at DTI, I'm happy with my first nihonto purchase and it's much better than I could've ever found on my own without some wonderful resources such as this site and some great books to help me out although I still feel like I'm very much a beginner in all of this.

Fun thread and happy the hobby is alive and well. Great sword Yurie san. Also happy to see new members who are well versed in the Nihonto world. I was concerned the NMB was on its last leg, with new guys like Adam ( I am impressed with you knowledge, you must have been interested well before here) and other too. New blood is very important to keep the forum alive. It's given me want to drop in more often. Especially since Brian has brought back the old ways, going to go check Bobby's shindig Pics now. There will be donation to the board before years end. Maybe sooner.

For sale Futatokoro set by Yoshioka school with Omodaka Mon design 1.600 EUR + postage + PP fee Shipped from Slovakia

I've look at it a few times, being partial to Omiya School in general I always enjoy it when one pops up. That o-kissaki is gorgeously wicked. I'm guessing around 9cm in length and a robust blade overall, it does stand out.

You are correct.

So, a couple of thoughts. Naginata were not always as “artistic” as normal tachi or katana. This is not to say they were not well built but the main focus was on functionality rather than fine jigane, scintillating hamon, beautiful hataraki, etc. So, on average I have noticed, anecdotally, they are more robust. Also, if you notice the weight of this blade, it is actually rather heavy for its short length. Therefore it must be thick and robust and it renders itself suitable for testing once the long tsuka mentioned above is attached.

The rice theory is interesting, i never would have considered that, and now that you mention it, I can see what you are saying. I initially saw the dragon wrapped around a "bent" ken (bent for the design in accommodating the Tsuba shape). The picture below is my example of the ken (although a modern replica supposedly based on a historic original). The dragon is either swallowing it, or in my opinion, spewing it out... as history loves a good mythically produced sword.

I think the theme is a dragon wrapped around a "Ken" - Which is not that easy to make out, especially as Ken are straight bladed swords and this is anything but straight! Artistic license gone riot but beautiful! These examples have Vajra handles - not sure about the one on the tsuba. Jake's idea of Bushu Ito sounds good to me. Chosu also possible - I struggle with the differences unless they are signed by one of the schools as they copied designs back and forth. Kinai liked dragons but something about it does not say Kinai - besides Kinai was mad about getting them signed. JMHO Whatever the school or theme it is a fantastic piece and gets us thinking!

There are guys who took huge exception with the book farce that never was released, and they have sworn to do this everywhere his name is online. Sad though. I can understand a lot of us lost some money, but most of us wrote it off as support for a great artist. But some have been very vocal and these are the ones downvoting. I can't stop that, but I won't allow any discussion or elaboration of that incident here. It is what it is.

The wakizashi is signed 'Fujiwara Noriyuki' (藤原則行), most likely a mid-Edo, Bungo smith.

https://varshavskyco...collection/tsu-0356/ Two from https://klefischauktionen.wordpress.com/ I am keeping my gnarly old hands out of this!

Brian...I hope he hasnr been scammed. I am happy to contact Imazu-san and try a get some sort of info/update. If your contact is agreeable, PM me all relevant details and I will give it a go. No promises but this has me intrigued..... up to you. Rob

"There will always be a steady flow of Tadayoshi, Ko-Mihara, Bungo Takeda, Shinto Waks, Uda, etc. These aren't going anywhere, they constitute the majority of the items exchanged. The pressure concentrates at the top of the field, this is normal and healthy." This is where ignorance and misunderstanding of nihon-to starts. A masterpiece of shodai Tadayoshi of Hizen, a masterpiece of Ko-Mihara Masaie, a wakizashi-masterpiece of Nanki Shigekuni can equal and even surpass a blade by Ko-Bizen Tomonari in quality and in even in market price. What matters is the quality of the individual blade and its condition. Those who can't tell the difference might better focus on used cars as a field of investing money. BTW Whining about the fact, that there are no Leonardos or Caravaggios to find online in Italy for a "reasonable" price is.... reinhard

No, I don't think many if any swords were officially tested but with no inscription made at all on the nakago. It wasn't just a personal thing to know if your sword could cut, it was to elevate the particular sword. I am sure other testing was done just for testing sake, but this sort of testing was expensive and I suspect swords would have some sort of marking to that effect. I assume you mean any inscription, not just the gold inlay.

If Rob pulled this out of hidden duct in a house and it came with the bring-back box, isn't it safe to assume this came direct from a veteran and hence there would have been no attempt to remove a star stamp? Conway

A Zodiacally correct Namitoshi on Yahoo! Japan. Cheap but, once again, rusty:

Namitoshi on Yahoo Japan, with rust issues:

Joint work by Tatsutoshi (father) and Tatsunao (son)

luckily (and I mean this with all due respect), I kinda don't care... Life is too short for the opinions of others to prevent me from doing what I want to do in life. I practice my kata with live blades when I can, I respect them, and I manage my money well enough to do whatever I want. It's actually pretty common for serious martial artists here in Japan to train with antique Katana and alternate using iaito. I wasn't looking for sympathy as much as I wanted to share how my wife contributes to a hobby of mine. 1Kinko, I was about to say something really snarky to you, but after reading your comment a couple times I'm concerned... Did someone hurt your feelings about a Chinese sword you bought? If they did I'm sorry man... Really, I am... (I genuinely mean that). You don't have to be upset because someone else doesn't appreciate your interests. Unless they pay your bills you can file the opinions away wherever you want. For additional context my wife is a jeweler, and that's why I had her make them for me... Even though they aren't uchidashi (which is something we researched prior to taking the approach we did) They are special to me because these are not made by any jeweler, they're made by my wife. It was a happy medium where I could support her business, and she could engage with my hobbies. Man to man, and I'm trying to say this as nicely as I can... If someone said something here that bothered me, I wouldn't use a random post to vent my frustration about it passive aggressively. I would tell them, like I'm telling you, you're welcome to make a thread about it go there and be salty... It's highly likely that some people don't accept these menuki, it's possible someone thinks the project is stupid, I think they're probably just being respectful and giving me the space and grace to engage with others on the forum, because it's kind of a nice thing to do. I have no problem with your Chinese Swords. Neither does my wife. If you're looking for people to follow you, you should consider leading differently. I mean this as respectfully as I can, human to human.

Going down this rabbit hole, here's a few from Tatsutoshi's student Namitoshi. The first two from Aoi Art (here) and (here) : Note how the second one resembles the one by Tatsutoshi I own, pictured in my first post above. The ribbons seem a bit bulkier, though. The third one from a Catawiki sale (here) :