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烈龍 (Retsuryu) – Violent dragon It may be the nickname of the sword.

I suddenly realise how much I miss Darcy Brockbank and Yuhindo.com. That was THE place for Westerners to see and possibly acquire 7-9/10 blades from top schools and smiths.

Well many artists published their works and it would have been relatively easy to spread the designs throughout Japan from woodblock printed books, the movement of smiths away from the big cities where they were taught and by Samurai craving for the latest style in fashion. I think we are locked in on a certain rigid idea that designs from one school can only be from that school whereas a lot of copying went on - you follow the fashion trend or you go out of business.

Hi All, Guard Girl back again to pick your brains. i was looking at this big heavy guard and wondered if it was a 'yagyu' type? It measures 6.95cm× 6.8cm thickness 0.55cm and 95g thanks again! Dee

Going to DTI this year showed me just how much very high-end stuff is available that doesn't make it on the internet. You'll get a few TJ blades on some sites that you could say are 8/10 or 9/10 on your scale (with 10/10 being above TJ and unavailable to foreign buyers), whereas at DTI there were dozens of TJ blades with some dealers having 10+ TJ blades available for sale. Based on my experience at DTI, all of those high end blades are available to purchase if you have the money. The cost of a 5-7/10 blade is a fraction of the 8-9/10 blades, sometimes by a factor of 10x or more. I'm sure if I had 50M yen to spend on one of the top blades at DTI, they would've sold it to me no problem! I was able to hold a few and appreciate them in person, but my budget was a small fraction of the many blades there that were 25M+ yen. That being said, I purchased what I believe was a very nice blade that was within my budget in perfect polish that wasn't available online and would've probably sold faster had it been offered on a site like Aoi in my jaded opinion. Its definitely worth going to DTI if you have the means and want to have access to nearly any blade that you could imagine.

There's a part of the nihonto market that ignores the Internet, and it's generally very high-end.

I sell swords and kodogu online and I suppose I'm offering 3/10 to 6/10 range of quality. You need to consider that 9/10 and 10/10 items can't legally be exported from Japan; no wonder they aren't offered online to westerners. I have had and currently have swords that I consider quite fine and I'm proud to be able to offer them And, I would never try to disguise a defect; my pictures and descriptions always point them out to my customers. And I'm not the only online dealer who tries to warrant trust; there are others. I think, Lukrez, that you are being too harsh in your judgement. Thanks, Grey

Don't tell me these eye patches would be comfortable!

I presented the Senjuin katana at the Bring and Tell session at this weekends NBTHK-EB meeting. It was well received and the overwhelming consensus was that if I wanted to submit for Juyo, to avoid risk of further degradation that might be inflicted by another polish and send it as is. The 'delicate' sugata suggest the blade was late 13th Century early 14th Century at the latest, putting it in the late Kamakura era. While Go Yoshihiro (its historical attribution) is unlikely, I feel it has enough features in common with the Echizen Yoshihiro group (based on a Juyo SY katana) that it could come back as a named blade, most likely Senjuin Yoshihiro, if accepted for Shinsa. Someone also suggested the typical Senjuin jihada is more roughly forged and that would fit with the weak Senjuin attribution mentioned here. According to Kazuo Tokuno a group of smiths relocated from Yamato to Hokuriku on the Northern Coast and incorporated elements of Soshu style swordmaking to their traditional Yamatoden origins. There was a Senjuin Yoshihiro in the late 13th Century and a signed/dated piece from 1343. The earlier Senjuin Yoshihiro is said to have been born around 1280 and was Go's father, and that the later dated blade could be by the same Smith. The postulated dates fit this hypothesis. Another hypothesis by Honami Kozon is that Go was not a Soshu smith at all but one of the Senjuin Yoshihiro group who adopted some of the Soshu style. I added a more high rez images to my Google Drive and I hope these give a good impression. The detail in the blade is highlighted by the macro lens and use of appropriate lighting. I found a cheap Ikea LED, with integrated lens to disperse the light, to be really good for these images and Nihonto in general. Offset high intensity halogen was my preferred light for visualising the hataraki. Enjoy. https://drive.google...j-eZWYtgSKfamVWFUlsO

dont be lead astray but uneducated words, everything show in these pictures is just modern repro s**t, full stop the end. its not Japanese, its not evan pre 1980's. you have failed to educate yourself with books before buying. thats not a gamble its being uneducated

A historically important tanto made in collaboration (gassaku) with Dr. Walter Compton, who did the hamon (performed yaki-ire). Made with the Yasukuni smith Yakuwa Yasutake. For full disclosure, this sword has a hagire (crack) likely due to this sword having been quenched by Compton. Dr. Compton was one of the most important early collectors of Japanese swords in the US and, among many activities, is best known for his return of the National Treasure Kunimune to Japan. YASUTAKE (靖武), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Tōkyō – “Yakuwa Yasutake saku” (八鍬靖武作), “Tōto ni oite Yakuwa Yasutake kore o saku” (於東都八鍬靖武造作), “Tōto-jū Yasutake” (東都住靖武), real name Yakuwa Takeshi (八鍬武), he was born December 7th 1909 in Sakegawa-mura (鮭川村) in Yamagata Prefecure, in July 1935 he moved to Kyōto to study under Ikeda Yasumitsu (池田靖光), the minister of war granted him the smith name Yasutake in 1944, from that time onwards he also became independent, it is said that after World War II, he did not forge until 1973, i.e. after a break of 28 years, he died in 1984 SOLD

What is 'interesting' in terms of collection is extremely subjective. Quality is more objective, but there's always going to be give and take until you're spendjng a great deal of money. People collect for a variety of reasons and value a variety of things. Some people are concerned more with sugata, some with jihada, others the hamon... Others the attribution of the school, the smith, the time period, the level of papers, the provenance... The important thing is to know what you want, why you want it, and the relative price range to achieve it.

That’s not entirely true. High-quality items are still available in the market; it’s just a matter of knowing where to look. However, their very high prices often make them unaffordable for most collectors. Japanese dealers naturally prioritize their loyal customers. If a Japanese collector is searching for a specific sword or has a focused collection, they’ll be the first to know about it—which is completely normal. Some old collectors don’t even use the Internet, so their business are conducted the old-fashioned way. With that being said, some very high-end Swiss collectors are often among the first to hear about specific swords entering the market. I also disagree with the common saying, “If it were a good sword, it would have been sold in Japan.” Just because a Japanese passes on a particular sword doesn’t mean it’s a bad one. In fact, I’ve seen high-quality swords leave Japan, often worth much more than their perceived value, yet overlooked by Japanese collectors. When buying a sword, thorough research is essential. Since you often don’t have the opportunity to examine the blades in person, it’s crucial to find a dealer you can trust. As you mentioned, some dealers(maybe most of them) may hide some flaws. Always ask if there are any imperfections. If they claim there aren’t but you later discover one, don’t hesitate to address it publicly—start a discussion, post about it on Facebook. It could impact their reputation and hold them accountable.

I believe it is the top of Hiro (寛).

You're bang on Mark. Is there the top two strokes of the last kanji showing or am I imagining something that isn't there?

Forget that "little" Wangata, check out https://www.facebook...100080255928820&_rdr Might I suggest this one could keep the rain out of the saya - - and keep the wearer pretty dry if he used it as an umbrella! It is suggested later in that Facebook link that "It often happens a child's jingasa is mistaken for a tsuba". It does look like someone got "creative"

So far this is the only mounted images I have of a Wangata tsuba [from an old thread https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/36785-quick-appraisal-needed-on-a-deal-going-down-opinions-please/] there is also another old thread from 2020 where the question "Anyone see a wan-gata mounted? " was asked. I have heard speculation that the Wangata style tsuba acted to keep dust and water out of the saya and hence protected the blade better - but if so it wasn't adopted by very many people as the small numbers that were actually made would suggest. Also some link to cup hilted European swords being seen in Japan, but as we know cup hilted rapiers etc have the guard curving back to the handle and not toward the blade.

So, what I find of interest is how those Wangata (bowl shaped) tsuba would have appeared when mounted on a sword. Now I remember reading somewhere (can’t remember where!) that the kozuka hitsu-ana on a tsuba is always placed on a sword so it is that hitsu-ana that is always worn closest to the wearers body. On the Wangata tsuba shown in the previous posts, that would mean that the dish shape (not the bowl shape) of the tsuba would be mounted and placed against the tsuka of the sword. The motifs on those tsuba could then be seen by a viewer looking at the front of the sheathed sword in its saya. When the sword is drawn from the saya the bowl feature of the tsuba could then be seen by the viewer (probably not a good place to be to view the bowl feature of the tsuba!). Now I wonder why a bowl type tsuba was made? Did it have something to do with weight distribution on the blade? Or was it just an artistic choice of the purchaser of the tsuba? Maybe tsuba were made in a bowl shape so the wearers thumb couldn’t slip off of the top of the tsuba when releasing the sword from the saya and drawing the sword? Could it have been less expensive to make because a motif only had to be made on one side of the tsuba (although I would think that for a tusba craftsman to achieve that bowl shape had to be more work than a flat type tsuba)? I have seen only a very (very and again very!) few tsuba made in that Wangata shape. My thoughts are that it had to be a special order for the tsuba craftsman to make that type of tsuba. Or will this remain just another unanswerable mystery of tsuba? Onward!

Jake, I don’t think the first tsuba which you posted (from Aoi Art) is linked to the Kikuchi school, there is no artist listed with that name, and the style isn’t in keeping with the Kikuchi school, who specialised in katakiribori. In my opinion, it’s a Mito school tsuba with a fictitious mei. The second tsuba which you posted is by Kikuchi Tsunekatsu, the founder of the Kikuchi school. I had a quick look at the meikan and the kao looks good to me. Here’s some information about him from Sesko’s Signatures of Japanese Sword Fitting Artists: 24.1 Kikuchi Tsunekatsu (菊池序克), 1st gen. The founder of the Kikuchi school was Tsunekatsu, a student of Inagawa Naokatsu (稲川直克). He also received the character for „Katsu“ from the latter. He was born in the first year of Hōei (1704) and was called „Seijirō“ (清次郎). Because of his artistic background in the Inagawa school he worked mostly in shakudō with nanako ground and takabori-iroe ornamentations but his strong point was katakiribori. In his later years he entered priesthood and took the nyūdō-gō „Sōju“ (宗寿). Other pseudonyms of Tsunekatsu were „Sōryūken“ (草流軒) and „Gidōken“ (蟻洞軒). There are also works extant which are signed with the characters (常克) for „Tsunekatsu“ and it is assumed that they go back to his earlier years. In addition, we know a joint work (gassaku, 合作) with Naoharu (柳川直春, 1750-?), the 3rd gen. Yanagawa, which is signed with the supplement „made at the age of 60“. That means Tsunekatsu was also in direct contact with the Yanagawa school. His year of death is unknown but the latest extant information about his age mentions „made at the age of 64“. That means he was at least active until the Meiwa (1764-1772) era.

Hey, guys- I wanted to give a much delayed update, to close off this thread. After seeing the collective response from the community on N.M.B and having this verified by the Auctionhouse, they were happy taking back the item and to give me a full refund on this occassion. I was incredibly fortunate, for under the circumstances. Although, the experience gave me a much needed lesson on bidding on signed Nihonto, prior to doing the proper research.

Hi Sam, yes, I’m only looking for a ww2 sword as I collect ww2 stuff. I want to add a Japanese Type 90 helmet and a shin gunto in the future. A older high quality sword doesn’t fit to the theme of my collection and I probably can’t afford them anyways. I will think about it and maybe make an offer with which I can live. Thanks for the links and the tip with the for sale section. I will definitely have a look. Greetings Kjell

I bought my 2nd Nihonto from Chosuya Ginza. The site is well organised, with photos that give a reasonable impression of the finer details contained in the blade. Prices are excellent from what I can see for the quality offered. And Akemi Tateno has an excellent command of English, is happy to accommodate with additional pictures and her personal impression of the blade in question. She even mediated with Tanobe san to write the Sayagaki. The sword was packaged perfectly. I would definitely buy from her again.

I think one complicated thing would be deciding on what would be considered as a fair pricing. There are also amazing very high quality items in collections of various European collectors. Also while I understand "rating" dealers, it can sometimes be tricky as they can have invetory outside their regular "rating". Some top dealers will have some cheaper items and some cheaper dealers can have very high quality items. Judging the particular item would be more important. Also as someone obsessed with old items it is also important to know that some items can change ownership quite fast. There are items that have even popped up online at 4-5 different dealers over the years, and might have even had offline sales too. In those cases of course the actual item remains the same but it can be listed by variously "rated" dealers. It is possible to find good deals at 5k, 15k, 50k, 100k+€, however perception might vary. What I personally might consider for example a good deal for 10,000€, someone else might think it would be overpriced and vice versa. People value different things like Erik wrote above. Do you have some specific direction you are looking for future purchases? Building business relations would be awesome and I will highly recommend that if it is possible for you. For someone like myself it is just not possible because I can make purchases very rarely. So possibly waiting for several and several years between purchases, I would not stress about the dealer relationship but would rather focus on specific item regardless on who is the dealer that has it.

Thank you both. All the best

I have seen this on Jauce and discussed with Steve Waszak. If this is a Yagyu, it is a late one. The surface treatment is very coarse, which is not the way the "sandy," but smoother and uniform appearance of Yagyu plates appear. That uniform coarseness is not produced by tekkotsu, which are absent on this tsuba. The motif and composition are not one of those 269 designs in Haynes' Yagyu Design Book (I have confirmed this). It is also thinner than an early Ohno, which is nearly always >6 mm at the rim. My Ohno Kuruma 8-spokes tsuba (see Peter's insert of my original post) is 7 mm at the mimi and 4 mm at the seppa dai, which is a consequence of the steep step-off as in the current tsuba under consideration. The central 6-spoke motif is likewise sunken for a powerful appearance. If not for the coarse surface treatment, which likely reflects corrosion of the original patina, I would have seriously considered this tsuba because of its Buddhist iconography (6 paths of karma)--a specific and focused collecting interest for me. If it speaks to you, that is all that really matters in the end. This would be a low-risk, low-cost acquisition--also a study piece to examine in hand.

Overall condition is average, the blade seems to be old (before 1868) but not discernible in that condition which is not good. Price is quite high for that stuff. I will wait for a better one but it is up to you.

Couple of thoughts and observations having just purchased my first nihonto from Japan. It's a bit of a blanket statement to say Western buyers only have access mid tier blades at best. It's really difficult to gauge the voracity of that since we have no idea what is available behind closed doors and within carefully curated circles. I plan to visit the DTI next year and maybe this will help to figure out if we are really swimming in a shallower pool. As with anything it's often who you know so buying through an intermediary may pay dividends (there are a couple of EU based players who can offer this service). You might pay a little extra but I think it will be well worth the investment. I plan to make a big purchase at the 2025 DTI if I see something that tickles my fancy. I will contact a few dealers ahead of the event and ask if they have something that meets my specs so that it can be brought for inspection. Regarding taxes (at least in Germany) the standard MwST levied is 19%, although if you can prove the item is over 250 years old (with NBTHK papers) and of historical significance (perhaps a littler harder to establish) then a 7% import tax is applied. I am currently going through this process having been told to pay the 19% upfront and then dispute the applied HS tax code in the hope the lower tax can be negotiated. This can all be done online.

Smith's signature says NO-SHU KANE-TOSHI SAKU KORE (Kanetoshi of Noshu made this)...Noshu is the old name of Gifu Ken. I'm sure one of the members will give you some personal info on this smith. Regards.

October 1941 Smith - Kanetoshi?

薩陽臣奥平元(寛) Satsuyō Shi Oku Taira Moto(hiro)

If i'm not wrong mei reads 兼道作 Kanemichi saku, that excludes Mihara school Edit :Confusion between the two swords

Maybe some work with the uchiko ball would bring out the hamon and reduce some of the black rust, but I don't think it would be worth investing much more in it. I think it's a nice little piece for the money though.

Last stand I saw was 121000 yen with ten bits, the night before the auction ends. Yagyu for that little money is really a bargain. A tsuba for the western collectors ?

Or Myochin? This one a papered Myochin https://nihonto.com/12-2-23/ I have a feeling this could be by a number of schools - a bit of copying went on. Hoan? https://www.tsubacollector.com/4.html A Yagyu one. from the same thread as Peter showed https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/49639-ohno-kuruma-tsuba-compared-to-kanayama/ What does that give us? Ohno/ONO , Myochin , Hoan & Yagyu I am sure we can find others.

Don’t know, do the dodgy green papers apply to swords only? It would be interesting to see if it would receive papers if re-submitted.

No yagyu but ohno..

Hello 'B' welcome , just need to remind you of Forum rules (from Home page under new members) .... Please note that we require all posts to be signed with at least a real first name. A name and initial makes it even easier. There are 2 ways to do this. Either remember to sign each of your posts with a name, or do what most do. Go into your profile, and edit your signature so that your name is automatically added to every post.

Hey there Michael, hard to say for sure - he took his working name in the early 70's, given the apparent age of the box and the patina of the piece in general I'd estimate 1980's. Impossible to say for sure, but the quality suggests it was made at, or very near his prime as an artist. Thanks!

i have dozens and dozens of papers of all sorts i probably have what you need you can email me at nixe@bright.net mark

@dwmc great spot! But that one's on me, I actually mirrored the image to help me notice anything odd. Thanks for all the thoughts everyone, much appreciated! I'm hoping I can buy this one 🤞

濃州関住服部正廣作 Nōshū Seki-jū Hattori Masahiro saku.

Hello, Agree with above..100% fake unfortunately… Regards, Paul.

Here's the Kikuchi School's genealogy for future reference. Also from Sesko’s Signatures of Japanese Sword Fitting Artists pg.25.

iv been waiting 16 weeks for a tanto now now. cant rush the system

Signed Kanetsune and appears to be a Sue-seki (late Muromachi Mino) blade.

There is actually three types Dan, named Wangata (bowl), Goishi-gata (convex both sides), and Hoiteibara (concave both sides). Here are some collages of 4 guards that i have in my collection. (Also on my PD website posted earlier this month, or late last that mentions these names).

Its a very difficult to answer, from images. You mention shiny. I'm concerned there is something amiss in the nio-guchi that don't look like its polished correctly (the way it blends, unsubtle). There's a polisher from Oz that sometimes comes here, he will be the guy to ask. Id say its not polished correctly, but that's from images. Actually, from the vid, I'm sure its not polished as good as it could be. The word harsh, springs to mind, Guess it all depends what you can live with.

Agree with you Jean, impeccable 😁. Not easy to do, but here is a view of the sword, full-length.

Koto Kanenori (NBTHK Hozon), with handachi koshirae. Fantastic sugata with wide mihaba and o-kissaki. Fine ko-itame with ji-nie and a suguha-based hamon. Ubu nakago. $5,950 (plus shipping and PayPal) Bio for the shodai courtesy of Markus Sesko - KANENORI (兼法), Kōshō (康正, 1455-1457), Mino – “Kanenori” (兼法), first name Uemonshirō (右衛門四郎), according to tradition the son of Nara Kanenaga (奈良兼永), depending on the source, Kanenori is listed either as Nara or as San´ami smith (三阿弥) but his tang finish shows the characterustuc features of the Senju´in school, i.e. kiri on the hira and sujikai on the shinogi-ji of the tang, on the basis of this it is assumed that he actually belonged to the Akasaka-Senju´in group and moved later to Seki where he joined there the Nara or the San´ami school, anyway, there were two lineages of Kanenori smiths active, one in Seki and the other one in Uruma (宇留間) which corresponds to the present-day Unuma district (鵜沼) of Gifu´s Kakamigahara City (各務原) Nagasa: 72.4cm Moto-haba: 3.3cm Saki-haba: 2.9cm Kasane: 0.7cm Sori: 1.7cm