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Kofun period Toran Kei

Hi, As stated before, practicing with an antique sword is not a taboo, please watch this video for example (interesting introduction to Nihonto by the way). And Iaido is not Battodo, that is not "shopping wood", we talk about martial art (koryu or not) that need as much respect as nihonto. But as stated as well, we are not the one that could answer you. Here you will find collectors that desire among all preservation. And please don't compare a 15 years use with a 5 to 10 century preservation. If you practice for so many time, you must have a Sensei or a Soke to guide you through your desire to practice with a shinken. That's up to him that you should seek your answer. Not in a forum, as qualitative as it is (and it is!) And if you are directed toward this direction, choose a sword good to do that, some Japanese sellers indicate swords good for Iai (even antique).

As a Koto collector who owned a sword that had been used to cut mats before, the damage is more severe then you think I had bought this sword, taken a good look at it, and only realized at home, it was covered in very small and sometimes minor scratches. But also some damage to the cutting edge, maybe 1/4 of MM. But this pained me to look at, the blade was early Koto, and extremely beautiful, even papered. Please never use these swords as a cutting instrument, it makes future collectors like me very sad and lowers the value of the blade significantly. Greetings, Lex

One more with Temple Bells.

Bit more to it than that. HOZON TOKEN 1) Edo and earlier blades with correct mei, or mumei blades on which the time period, kuni and group can be identified, may receive Hozon paper. 2) Blades that meet the criteria given above can receive Hozon paper even if they are slightly tired or have kizu, as long as those may be permissible in their appreciation. 3) For Nambokucho and earlier zaimei blades by famous smiths, re-temper can be permissible if the blade is valuable as a reference, and if the jiBa and nakago are sufficiently well preserved. However, this has to be documented in the paper. 4) Repair on jiBa is permissible, unless it significantly impairs the beauty of the blade. 5) Blades made in Meiji and Taisho periods, and those by recently deceased smiths, can receive Hozon paper only when the blade is well made, zaimei and has a ubu-nakago. 6) Blades are put to “reservation” if a decision could not easily be made on the authenticity of the mei. This also applies to mumei blades in which an attribution is difficult to make. 7) Blades with hagire may not receive Hozon paper.

正倉院展 – The 76th Annual Exhibition of Shoso-in Treasures Ref. The 76th Annual Exhibition of Shōsō-in Treasures | 正倉院展 According to the exhibits list, the two swords of this year are 黒作大刀 (Kurozukuri no tachi) and 無荘刀 (Musoto). Ref. 202410_shosoin_list0919-2.pdf 9. 黒作大刀　第13号 – Tachi with black-lacquered mounting, No. 13 Ref. |Tachi| sword with black-lacquered mounting, No. 13. - Shosoin 10. 無荘刀 – Sword without fittings (There are 23 such swords in Shoso-in.)

Its really bad. Recent (past 150 years) signature with substandard execution. Tremendous damage. Modern tsuka of low quality.

This will go against the grain, but here is what I have seen in Japan: Some will use old blades (Nosyudo, the iaito maker, used to sell some, likely for that purpose, but they were not museum or collection level blades), but old iron tsuba are more common. Nowadays, uchiko is only recommended for heavy oxidation, which can occur during a humid summer; otherwise, alcohol with a fine weave cloth and oil is what many do. For what it's worth, after almost ten years praticing with a shinken, the damage is: scratches on the kissaki, a millimeter broken off the kissaki from hitting the floor (doing the kata tora no issoku), and oxidation on the mune, especially near the habaki (from touching and exhaling during cutting). The main points against using an antique blade are: 1. The shape may not be quite conducive to iaido practice, i.e. the sori and kissaki shape may not be quite adapted to nukitsuke; 2. The blade's history being unknown (smith sometimes also unknown), it is unclear if the blade is safe to practice with. There may be defects and some prior deformation that make it somewhat "fragile". (3. The blade is too short for your height, and thus does not allow for "proper" technique to be practiced.)

The problem here is that sooner or later an "art" sword will be ruined by someone who lacks the knowledge and better judgment necessary not to proceed. This is not unlike the issue with amateur polishers. Desire is the cause of suffering.

It is very interesting to compare my different interests on this point. The most relevant comparison is violins. In fact, there is a violin equivalent of NMB--maestronet.com--a similar forum devoted to violins. While violins have only existed for about 500 years, the value of the finest examples far exceeds any nihonto in existence. Arguably, the cultural significance of either item is about the same. The difference is that no one tells a violinist with their exquisite 1706 Stradivari that they should put it in a case and never play music on it. Even though playing on a violin can cause damage, there are highly-skilled luthiers who can repair these instruments and keep them alive. There are some fabulous old violins in museums, but even then they are sometimes lent to great players to perform on (https://www.youtube....EBA5EA4076B&index=34). No one would say to a violinist that they should only play violins made recently; in fact my Magnus Anton Fichtl from 1775 gets a couple of hours of workout every day. While iaido, with the repeated drawing and sheathing, can damage a blade, I believe that even suburi would be considered out-of-line here. I suspect the difference is that the actual intended use of nihonto, which is to say life-taking and life-giving, is no longer a living tradition. Still, I would urge you all to give Nicholas a bit of a break here. He makes a reasonable inquiry.

They come in various shapes and with differing types of additional decorations. A popular design. The last two have fukurins added to the rims and the design has the hitsu reversed compared to the other four.

You just summed up how I feel about this, and you said it better than I was able to... Thanks 🙏

So then the paper that states they are worthy of preservation means they are not worthy of preservation? Do tell…

Hello Can someone help me whith the translation of the kao from this iron nara school tsuba size 68,5×67,1mm Thank you Ran

Just a FYI that rarely are the mounts (koshirae) original to the sword. The wood and ray skin and other natural materials degrade over time. Real, old, collectible koshirae are their own set of serious collectors items and have their own grading papers to accompany them. id pass on this blade. The mune looks very badly chewed up with bit splits and there are lots of pits up and down the length of the blade. For that much money, I believe you could pick up a very nice koto blade with no flaws or defects without too much trouble.

It's not militaria or military. It's an antique civilian sword. And I suspect you can do faaar better from sellers inside Australia, there are plenty of swords available from collectors and dealers there for less.

Muromachi or not, this has a lot of ware which are concerningly large. The mei looks spurious. The sword is so over-oiled that you can't really see any hada. The mounts are very recently restored. You can probably find better. What are they asking? I suppose that is the clincher.

See, that is very insightful, and the kind of views I had hoped this kind of debate would foster. Never thought about it this way. Thank you.

The lattice is depicted fractional to allude to transientness. Florian

John, you got me scared that I messed this up, so I searched the forum for swords where both the Wakase patent ishizuke and ito are visible and found a mix of tsumami-maki and hineri-maki on posted examples. From the small sample size, the tsumami-maki seems to be more common on kai gunto, and the hineri-maki more common on army swords. I noticed that most of the army swords have what Ohmura calls the "Kashira-Kakemaki" style of binding stop. All I know about how my sword was originally wrapped is that the menuki placement was standard (you could see where they were) and that it was not kashira-kakemaki style because there was no hole through the tsuka. So I'm reassured that my restoration is at least "historically plausible." Tsumami-maki #1, #2, #3, #4, Hineri-maki #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 High-end katate-maki outlier

Two perspectives, I think. Some would think they are just the caretakers of this era, therefore their job is to preserve the blade in the best condition for later peoples. Others would think nihonto is an art but also a weapon, limiting its usage only as an art would be bit of waste. I personally have always thought nihonto as an art AND a weapon, well due to my historical reasons, so I do understand your point. If nihonto is only seen as an art shouldn't fancy shinto or shinshinto have much more value then how they are seen as then now? A weapon, that was made to harm people. An icon, that was made to show gratitude and promise for another. An art, that was made to study and appreciate its form. And a pride, that was made to show one swordsmith's lifetime earned skill. These are all shades of nihonto. If one is going to use it properly(not as a some kind of a joke) I'd say sure why not? The choice is yours. Just remember koto is likely to be weaker than nowaday's steel blades.

Hit the nail on the head here @Franco D! These swords are here because people didn't fall to their desires. The swords weren't buried with their past owners, they weren't mistreated by their descendants. They were stored, respected, and only when needed, maintained. It is frankly a small miracle we are even able to acquire them - and I suspect there will come a time where they are once again more widely revered and valued. Even if it is a bit more boring for us... I don't need to practice with my nihonto, so I wont. After all, I want at least one of my swords to survive another 500 years, and travel the stars as humanity start to settle them

If this is a repetitive question here I understand there might be some built up frustration coming out here. Otherwise I think the question was asked in a good manner. And from someone who has spent a considerable amount of his life developing his sword skills. There are a lot of people out there who will ask nobody before they use Nihonto for backyard cutting until the sword looks like an old rusty saw. I myself have cut tatami with a koto blade, but that was in Japan and not on my own initiative. I wouldn't dream of doing it outside of Japan. My position is that we have to keep in mind that we are only the caretakers of these historic swords for a while before they continue down the history. Our lives are just a blip in the history of the sword, and if every blip wants a piece of the sword, it won't last very long. For each generation of users, the finite pool of antique katans gets even smaller. In the future, prestine katanas will be very rare. By using this katana, you are not doing your best to preserve it for future generations. Previous owners throughout history did not take this well care of their swords and pass it on until it reached us, so we can start putting miles on them. There is something beutifully humble about viewing yourself as the caretaker and not the end user of a sword. I'd still say that after 15 years of Iai you probably have the skills to not do much damage, but I'd rather not anyway. For the Japanese the blades serve ritualistic and even religious purposes. They are believed to expel evil and protect the house from bad spirits. Maybe adopting a similar mindset and start viewing it as your lucky charm will make it feel more like it has a purpose?

I have been collecting nihonto for over 20 years, and I've always been one to transfer them from their shirosaya to the koshirae once I receive them, and I never keep them oiled either, with no ill effect. Some of my swords have been in their koshirae for over 20 years on my sword rack, unoiled, without developing any rust. And until this year, I lived in a city where the humidity in my house was about 50%. I prefer to keep my swords in their koshirae because I like the feel of how a sword was intended to be handled, in koshirae. And also, I have an unfounded phobia of my hand slipping on the shirosaya handle, and my hand getting cut, so a tsuba is always nice to have. So now I have a huge stack of shirosaya over the years that I really need to get sorted and tagged, ha ha. Maybe it's also because most of my swords are TH and below, and not Juyo or TJ, so I'm not as concerned with keeping them in absolutely pristine condition.

Hi guys. Keep a eye out for these two. Stolen aka lost by Australia post employees on Monday. Police report will be filed tomorrow. Full tracking and signature on delivery and insurance. But still not enough these days

https://www.hermitagemuseum.org/wps/portal/hermitage/digital-collection/15.+weapons%2c+armor/494286

Gentlemen, I don't like bad photos, but erroneously I posted one myself (above). I cannot correct that, so I apologize; hopefully this one is better:

Thank you, I see we have the same birthday, mine is 8/11/1956. Many happy returns of the day, have a nice birthday. Ran

Maurice, the first photo is of course useless, but on the second I can read NARA.

Thanks @Nobody That is indeed the tachi on display. thanks to your link I found the “sword blade” that was shown to the public for the first time. Sword blade 35

Now that's a hot take 😂 (Doesn't Hozon literally mean a sword is worthy of preservation?)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys. Valid points there. To make it clear, performing battodo with my nihonto did not even cross my mind! If we are talking about risk, this would be on a whole another level compared to iaï. I have practiced batto, and yes the word damaging is well suited there 😁. So nope, never will.

I presume it was this auction site? https://page.auction.../auction/e1157163192 or https://www.jauce.com/auction/e1157163192 Also seen on an old Christie's auction blurry image so it may not be the same guard? So the problem is they have gone missing here in Australia - that is unusual - lets just hope they may turn up a little later. I will keep my eyes open.

Bruce’s Wiki link above suggests 1870, Chris. ‘Amida Yasuri’ halo rays were of course much older.

Thank you, Dale! These examples track almost exactly to my recent purchase. Very interesting and clearly a popular design.

I love the spirit and intent in this. We often talk about keeping our swords "as is" because it is in line with the life of the sword. If one really feels that way, then I compare our storing our swords in boxes to caging lions and tigers in cages. I love to see guys with restored vintage cars out on the weekend for a drive. They don't drive them everyday, and when they do get them out, it is done carefully, no hot-rodding. It keeps the car alive. They shouldn't be stored in a huge garage, never to roll again. I also respect those who fear the damage that may happen to a blade, which is why the 1704 violin or the 1934 Chevy is used by experienced people, very carefully. 2 cents

No, but some of the blades that show up on here have had a beating. Joking apart, I ultimately it’s your own blade, if it isn’t damaged by using it for Iaido, no harm done…but I wouldn’t risk it myself. Sorry Emil, your post arrived while I was replying to Nicolas.

Les, Here is what I have from a Gunboards thread:

September 1943 Mikko, Interesting civil tsuba with that first one. Is the one still on it a standard Army tsuba, or something civil, too? Also, the small stamp about the date is the NA of the Nagoya Army Arsenal. Your photo cuts off the top of the nakago on the mei side. Is ther a stamp up higher?

Thanks, it's indeed a very interesting take on the subject 🙏 I think I understand how "damaging" iaïdo practice is seen. And I honestly did not think it would be viewed this way. Sure I know it's not going to do any good, but to me it would almost be insignificant. Like you would not be able to tell with your naked eye. But again, I can be wrong, and I can totally accept it and even reconsider my intent of using my nihonto for iaï... (Getting it back Saturday so that was some thinking ahead here...). I'd like to add, related to the "why", that a good analogy I think is why millions of people go to museums to see art in person... I mean, take da Vinci's Mona Lisa for instance. Why do so many people want to see the real thing when you have thousands of pictures of it online, in books, etc. What's the point then???? Well, because there is spiritual connection, feelings and emotions going through your body, it transports you... Exact same thing with using a koto blade I think... At least to me. But again, I might reconsider it, really.

In reply to PNSSHOGUN, The above Nagamitsu had only a shirasaya and I have only photos of the blade.

That is rather exceptional, can't recal seeing a Gendai Nagamitsu with Horimono. His long signature usually indicstes the most diligent work. Do you have pictures of the mounts?

Here is a Showa era example on a katana from the smith Nagamitsu. It was likely a very special order. It is signed Bi zen (no) kuni ju nin ichi hara Naga Mitsu Kore tsukuru . It is undated. There are dragons on both sides set in lozenges as well as bohi. One dragon chases a fireball while the other clutches a sacred jewel. This item was brought back by my Uncle Ed from Japan. He was part of a team confiscating weapons after WW2. These are his pictures taken outside on his porch in 1996. Cheers, William G.

A 1935 KANETOKI, in type 34 mounts, special order for Lord Tsukaharu.

Thanks Matt, that's a good series and great info. I've long personally been intrigued in that particular horimono and the fact that it is so often found on wartime swords. I expect somewhere there was a company or group of horimono-shi doing these for guys going to war, or on blades sold to be mounted as Gunto. Never heard much about them. Some of the work is poor, but some of it seems fairly competent. And here's a legit one on a Sadakatsu, can't remember where I got the pic.

Here are several from Showa era, displaying varying levels of quality, mostly on showato, some likely by the same hand.

A few dragons. no. 1 Kunihide / Masahide joint work Wakizashi no. 2&3 Yoshitane horimono on Naotane blades No. 4 Sukashi horimono on a Naokatsu katana

No Bryce, Tanto is polished by Mishina sensei.

Tadatsuna ?