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When I last spoke with Ford , about a week or so ago although clearly very poorly, he was in a positive frame of mind, impatient to get the medical procedures out of the way and resume his work in his studio. Today's dreadful news comes as a shock although sadly, in truth, not unexpected. I first ' met ' Ford on the NMB when he replied to a posting of mine. We got on together quite well and then after a while started to look at the tiger tsuba project together. Over the years we became friends and cooperated to build the basis of a collection that would be of good quality but above all informative and educational. My thoughts are with Bella and family, Joel, Kyle, Jo and all those who knew him over the years. Bob

It's also not acceptable to encourage people to collect zero- art, low quality space fillers. This isn't the forum for that. We are not collecting age here. Not are we collecting nostalgia. Be polite, educate people, encourage them to advance and learn. BUT...taking that modern "everyone is a winner and everyone deserves a trophy" stance is for Facebook...not here. Telling people what they have without mincing your words is not rude. It's what ANY art field does. You try take your Auntie Flo's watercolour scribble to an art gallery, and see what they say. I think a handful of people here are overstating something that isn't prevalent. Newcommers get good advice, many stick around and become the new collectors. A handful of treasure hunters disappear when they don't hear what they want to hear. If you want to encourage newbies, STOP telling them how great their placeholders are. Be like Dale...explain why it's a fake or cast or lower end. Show examples of where the design comes from. Dale....you specifically are great at this. You show them why and how and what to look for. But don't fall into that trap of "everything is collectible, and everyone gets to enjoy any old dross" because that is simply not true. Otherwise we may as well open a section for those who want to collect fakes or $20 tsuba. This place is for people to learn, and to advance. Not to get stuck collecting tsuba-shaped objects. I don't think some of you would survive very long collecting other militaria. You go to WA or Warrelics etc, and post your fake post war German dagger, and see how much you get coddled. Nope. "Fake junk." and then you decide if you want to be a collector, or a treasure hunter. I agree with you all that we need to keep being polite. But blunt. If the person gets indignant and argues, tough...this isn't the place for them. As an aside. I collect, buy and sell knives. Thousands of them. I'm good at it. People contact me all the time. This week...once again (and it makes me very sad) a lady contacted me saying her husband had a massive collection of knives, and they need to sell them now that he passed. She had hopes that they were worth a decent amount. He was a prolific collector. Eventually she sends me pics. He has hundreds of knives. EVERY ONE OF THEM a Chinese flea market junker. Every fake Chinese knife out there, every fantasy wallhanger available. Every "gas station knife" as you Americans call them. I had to break the news that there was nothing I would be willing to pay more than about $2-3 each for. Jan was an accumulator. Not a collector. And now its his family's problem Don't be Jan.

I fervently [look it up] hope that any Newbies give this thread a wide berth until the bickering stops. Once again . . . are we here to HELP or frighten people off? Personally I think encouraging new members should be the priority, if a "Newbie" [which is a condescending title to start with - as we know nothing about their backgrounds] wants information on a tsuba or anything else that we may feel is "junk" - - so what? Does it damage anyone reputation if you can simply say "Show us what you want to buy next time, so we can steer you away from making a bad purchase"? Just saying things like "You wasted your money" or "We only judge true works of art" helps no one. Please don't say it doesn't happen - it definitely does. [don't make me start compiling the list of names - it is all on record and very accessible ] [An Idle threat, I wouldn't waste my time - you know who you are ] PhoenixDude You do know M.J. is dead don't you?

Paris, At risk of offending yours and Dan's sensibilities I'll offer an opinion on "learning" tsuba, so, rather than buying cheap, generic tsuba in awful condition, why not take a different approach? 1. Work out whether you currently prefer iron or soft metal tsuba; 2. Find a school(s) or artist(s) working in this material who's work you like; 3. Find authenticated examples of that work on line; 4. Put together a catalogue raisonne of their work and try to determine the characteristics that have lead the work to be attributed to that artist or school; 5. Should you wish to do so, seek out the best example of that work that you can find and buy it and then repeat the above process with another school or artist. By adopting a similar approach, you can still collect what you like, but you will know why you like it and will then have had the learning experience that you are looking for and without spending the money on tsuba that you won't like once your taste develops, which it will. The tsuba at the top of the thread has little or no virtue as an item to learn from because it has practically no characteristics that are capable of distinguishing it from thousands of other generic tsuba. Dale has kindly described some of the features of your tsuba, but you could have got that information from a book (sorry Dale, I'm not criticising what you offered) and lots of other information besides that would be useful to you in respect of other tsuba or fittings. Alternatively, you can continue as you have been but you won't be learning anything from the tsuba you buy and there will be little that anyone on here can say about them that will make you better informed. Apologies if you think that's harsh but there are reasons why swords get appraised to broad categories such as "Bungo Takeda" - because even in excellent condition they have no charactaristics that make them stand out even for shinsa panels that see and handle thousands of swords. With fittings it's the same if not more so. Just an opinion, and not exactly my own either: ones like it feature in many articles on what or how to collect written by people who have been through the stage of just buying stuff because it's there and who are trying to pass on knowledge that will allow newbies to get ahead of the game. But that requires tough love sometimes.

I fondly remember my visit to Ford and family in Cape Town when he was still living here. I was sad when he decided to move away from South Africa, felt like we had lost a real asset. What I liked about Ford was his no-nonsense approach to Japanese aesthetic and art. He could come across as grumpy and unbending. I liked that. It showed he had truly embraced the Japanese master/student tradition. He didn't hold back, and was willing to teach, as long as you were willing to learn. His skill was way beyond comprehension, and the knowledge inside his head will largely never be recovered. He was troubled by his health, and torn between being left alone to work, and wanting to share his info and techniques. We used to communicate regularly, and I enjoyed his advice and comments. I always said I "discovered" him too late to accumulate some of his work. Wish I had grabbed some of the deals I was offered. Such a huge loss to the international Japanese art world. Museums, collectors, students. Not sure he will ever be replaced, I only hope some of his students are able to continue his work. Condolences to all who knew him, he will be sorely missed.

Yeah, that thread could have used some Stephen. I'm sorry he retired from NMB. Generally I think Brian handled it well and am sorry he has to step in as much as he does. What is this, kindergarten for violent toddlers? I also agreed with Alex on the point that a lot of us have spent decades helping others just to nurture the hobby. It definitely gets taken for granted. So I don't respond to posts anymore where a $25 book would educate them. C'mon piker... buy at least one book and open it. Read a few pages. ----When someone comes in, pisses on your leg and starts throwing lit firecrackers behind the bar, maybe they deserve the response of getting their head shoved in the Scottish toilet for a swirly and a few kicks to the arse. Not my bar, so I won't do it. I wouldn't have punched him in the nose like Alex did, but https://dictionary.c...ish/had-it-coming-to

It is a nice sword. I will PM you info on the sword when it was listed in Japan 10 years ago. You are right that koshirae has been made/fitted to the sword more recently.

More...

Do you have any idea how childish that sounds?, and you are the first person I’ve seen on this forum telling someone you’d put him “flat on his back”. Reminds me of the school playground. We don’t need crap like that on the Forum.

Not at all happy with the language. Alex, consider this an official warning. I'm running around hectically today, so haven't enough time to start editing posts and explaining. Disappointed in how this degraded, but it's to be expected when people argue online. Btw, all the advice in the world on how to collect won't help when there are collectors who just like age and the "samurai romanticism" and don't care about quality or art. It's fine to collect what you like. But bear in mind the focus of this group, and what we strive for. That isn't going to change

I have to disagree with this statement, and I have found quite the exact opposite. I would say most are kind, friendly, and patient. This is a great place with great people. Once in a while there is an issue and I guess those always stand out… but the day to day interactions here are normal helpful, informative and done in a friendly (or at least a professional) manner.

Greetings and I very much appreciate this resource. I purchased 2 Nihonto (Tachi and Wakizashi) from the wife of a deceased acquintance in early July, and I have spent the last month learning as much as I can here on the NMB, Facebook and books. I have read Yumoto’s book and have ordered The Connoisseur’s Book of Japanese Swords to further my education. The previous owner of these swords was a very special and famous person, so I recognize the importance of protecting his legacy and passion as well as preserving these for future generations. I purchased proper supplies from various sources on the internet, including Tozando in Japan. I initially posted these on the Facebook Nihonto group that Ray Singer moderates, and I very much appreciate the initial assesment he gave me. I have since deleted that post, as I feel a bit weird about posting valuable stuff on Social Media. At least there is some level of anonymity here. That said, I know asking about values is a bit subjective without sword in hand, so I will forgo that aspect and just wish to learn as much as I can about this sword, the time period in which it was made, and the bladesmith himself. I am not looking to sell, as I hope these swords can bring me many years of joy exploring a new scholarly pursuit. Today, I will be posting just one of the swords that appears to have Tokubetsu Hozon papers from NBTHK. Ray Singer’s assesment was that this is a Nambokucho Tachi partially signed Hidemitsu and signed Hidemitsu Tachi are somewhat rare. The Shirisaya is in decent shape, but does not close all the way. The Koshirae is obvisouly modern with modern fittings. I did attempt to mount the blade, but the Tsuba doesn’t appear to fit properly. The wooden “blade” appears to be a dead on match for the real thing though. I suppose a visit or chat with a Sayashi is in my future. That said, I took the best pics I could with the resources I have. I will post pics of the Wakizashi at a later time, but it appears to be a late Edo Period piece with NTHK Papers along with the Worksheet. It's in very good shape. Thank You NMB!

Ok, i was wrong with the language. Just sick and tired of pandering to folks that talk nonsense. The world seems full of soft people at the moment that don't like truth. Forums have changed, folks are too touchy. If folks want to buy crap. then its their business, il stay out of it in future. No worries.

I seem to remember one of the current participants was also the protagonist for cast iron tsuba who wouldn't listen to reason and was one if the reasons Ford dropped out of commenting on tosogu. Would any of the current commenters be supporting cast iron swords or acid etched swords or corroded swords? Beauty may be in the eye if the beholder, but there are limits. Call a spade a spade and move on.

Long time since I shot a 45. Please excuse my lack of ammo knowledge. Can’t even remember what we had way back….I think it and the farm 1911 originally came from a USA WW2 bomber base!…..probably through a hole in the hedge

But we hear it none the less from all sides. Totally off topic but what happens when a $20 tsuba turns out to be a lost treasure? What basic economics should have taught you all, is that what something costs is not in anyway related to what it is actually worth! [Hey, but lets just dismiss anything under what . . . $1,000 ? - total BS].

The left is a lead cast semi-wadcutter, the right a jacketed hollowpoint, and neither would be used by any millitary in combat. The velocity of a typical 45 acp or 9mm is usually in the range of 900 to 1300fps, and would not damage steel like you are seeing here. And yes both of these would still make a round or ovoid hole.

Care to give the rest of us a bit more detail?

I think the nakago Ana was placed deliberately off-centre. The reverse option, that the outside shape was altered seems less likely to me as the tsuba features 5 kamon which matches the 5 petalled shape.

Hey Alex. As a "newbie" to the forum who saw your last interaction that prompted Dan to make this thread, I'm not sure I'd consider your posts to be particularly "educated" or "enlightened". If you think your knowledge of prices makes you particularly cultured you should perhaps look into a mirror. I have a Meiji period bronze hand mirror I could lend you. I think it would suit you. Regards, Jake

I look at it and the more I look the nakago-ana twists my brain. [in a good way] It looks off centre with the outside shape but then perfectly in-line with the hitsu Then if you try changing the nakago-ana to fit the outside design there is not enough of a hole to fit the tang? So what came first, the shape then the nakago-ana was deliberately put in out of alignment? Could the outside shape have been altered? This is a mystery piece to me - my brain hurts!

Thanks Brian, you raised a valid topic and sought respectable responses...good work. Reading the first half of your post I thought, I will comment and in so doing, suggest the word 'tsuba' also mean 'blade' as the very same things apply in your context. However as I read your post and got to the end , you said ...... "I also know that by posting this, I am throwing myself to the wolves! So, bring it on if you feel so inclined! I will take the wolves responses one at a time (or maybe not respond at all, it depends on how many wolves there are in the pack!). Onward my friends!" Well I didn't have a clue what you meant or why you even bother including that BUT I was saddend to read the level that your topic/question was taken to within hours of posting. Is it just me being naive...what the hell. The underlying personal dislikes certainly emerged so quickly (Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!!!) I couldn't believe what came from members and how far off topic it was. I understand why you closed the thread and I don't blame you....close this too if you want, I won't be offended. But I regard to your question ... please, no special section or rules for Newbies. There is no kindergarten in the Army....you rely on the experience and wisdom of others...that's how you learn. That's how the system works. Yes, some can be a little more abrupt than others but that is life. That's all part of learning. There are so many great members here and I don't want to single any individuals out but they know who they are ....always offering answers, always offering links...always giving. So please let Newbies just 'join the fray' and learn from those willing to give. (At this point I thought I just heard Stephen say 'peace brother')

If it matters, I would describe that as a Korean pepper.Cheong-gochu aka. 청고추 Koreans eat them in stews, soups, and straight up with some fermented gochuchang or doenjang paste on them. I don't know when they came to Japan. Presumably 1600s, but maybe later during the Japanese occupation of Korea circa 1910-1945. That would postdate tosogu, so probably 1600s after the Korea campaigns. I think they are called Shishito in Japanese? Same biological name as the Korean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishito

Hi Yoon yes…menuki can be a bit of a challenge sometimes. I'm pretty certain the top one depicts Hotei, one of the “seven lucky gods” often depicted with children and his sack of treasure…as on this menuki. I see Jay has suggested Fukurokuju for the second - also a “lucky god” so that would make sense as a pair.

Very nice looking sword with a sayagaki by Tanobe who was President of the NBTHK for many years and considered a pre eminent nihonto expert and appraiser. Some value his appraisals over the NBTHK.

Not looking for a fight (don’t want to end up on my back) but I do think that all the advice re values, saleability, quality etc etc was given with the best interest of the OP at heart. OK it got a bit off track and heated but let’s remember the intention was always very obviously to help and guide someone and save them making possible “mistakes”. At least the OP has a better idea of what he is buying. If he choses to continue down the same path that’s up to him but at least he is armed with a degree of harsh reality. Hell I’d have welcomed that 40 years ago!

Highly doubt there would be hardcast lead bullets being used! .45ACP Ball was the standard ammunition. Have to agree with Rob, the leather cover has been replaced at some stage.

Not a bullet...LV or HV. Bullets are round...they make round shapes.....even when tumbling, still roundish...not rectangular. If its period damage then its most likely shrapnel. The combat cover is certainly not original 'cause no hole in it' .....so cover is post war or post damage at best.

Correct Jake, my primary goal as newbie is to avoid fakes and try to learn on what I have available. My first car was also a second hand one and not a new one. I consider Tsuba as art so opignions can be different. It is not ok for a newbie to hestate to put his Tsuba on this fantastic forum because he is worried his tsuba is not good enough... Kind regards.

This is just my opinion as a young "newbie" on the forum but if your only value in collecting tsuba is the reselling price, you've probably forgotten the reason you started collecting in the first place. Enjoy collecting and learning!

Jake, I like the odd ones. Keeps us all guessing I wonder if some of these "off centre" ones are designed to act as a katana-kake, that is, a way for the sword to lay on a flat surface, when you don't have access to a stand, without rolling?

Sounds as a well educated reply to me Jake. Kind regards from Belgium.

Not very good at spelling yourself "aint" you!

Mark: I was thinking stylized bamboo leaves like these. John C.

https://psychcentral...tention-seeking-kids

I became fascinated with samurai and nihonto watching The Water Margin and Monkey as a kid growing up in the UK. Saw a few swords in museums but owning a blade was out of reach financially, so I stuck with stamp collecting. About 10 years ago I got into artisanal kitchen JKnives and eventually started to look at nihonto again, joining the NMB in 2020. With the funds now available I can afford what I like. Koto blades. My first blade, a Yamato Shikkake, found me in Utrecht 2 months ago at the age of 60 and I couldn't be happier. Some well respected, elder NBTHK-EB members have examined it and saw no reason not to send it for Juyo Shinsa, which I plan to do next year. And so the bug has been acquired. My plan is to find a representative blade from each of the main Kamakura and Nanbokucho era Gokuden. I also have plans to visit Japan next year to acquire a deeper understanding of this fascinating area of collecting and connoisseurship. There is so much to learn and I'm sure this will become one of the major areas of interest for me as I contemplate retirement in 4 years time. I also joined the NBTHK so I've fallen hard.

Wakizashi for a Daimyo O-Suriage sword 58 cm NBTHK TH to Taima school Kamakura , Yamato Den Fittings all matching to Mori clan , Habaki solid gold with Mon I have not seen the papers for the fittings yet This is believed to have belonged to one of the Daimyo from Mori because of the extensive use of their Mon. The fittings are unsigned , when the papers come back it will help date which Daimyo it may have been Many thanks to Mike Yamasaki for selling this to me

Hi Mark, must've been a personal preference of the officer. When paired with good mountings, it can be a very nice contrast.

Really good purchase, and waaay above what many of us start with. Having a papered sword with sayagaki by Tanobe sensei is a real prize.

I agree with this but I think it is applicable in both directions here.

Dan, This is a pretty benign forum. The newbies asking questions about their tsuba generally haven’t bought good ones so, if there are sharks, what they have is generally not what they’re looking for. Alex is a good guy and certainly not in that category. I know we’re on the internet but please, don’t say stuff that we’d never say to one another face to face.

The average age on 53 collectors is 50 years old.

The Walters Art Museum has some Chili pepper tsuba and fittings. [Chili peppers originated in Bolivia and were first cultivated in Mexico. After Columbus and the exchange of foods and cultures, many cultivars of chili pepper spread around the world, used for both food and traditional medicine. This led to a wide variety of cultivars, including the chinense species. Cultivars grown in North America and Europe are believed to all derive from Capsicum annuum, and have white, yellow, red or purple to black fruits. In 2019, the world's production of raw green chili peppers amounted to 38 million tons, with China producing half.] Source - Wikipedia Note. Chillies did not reach China and Japan till the late 16th century. https://art.thewalte...ating-chili-peppers/ https://art.thewalte...uka-with-red-pepper/ https://www.bonhams....912-circa-1870-1890/

12 1964 Wakizashi mounted in what some refer to as Satsuma Rebellion mounts £4 10 shillings (£4.50 now) The Katana was £5.10 (£5.50), but I didn't have that much. The Dealer wrapped in some Newspaper for the bus journey home. The Dealer I bought it from is still dealing...........

I may be one of the latest starters. After a rather dire medical diagnosis just a couple of years ago, I made a bucket list. As many are here, I've been a martial artist since the age of 13 and have always wanted a "real" samurai sword. So at the ripe old age of 61 I bought my first nihonto - a papered Nobuyoshi (2nd gen) from Grey. .... 9 more items to go... John C.

I find many ubu kodachi to have exceptional sugata. Miniaturized mid Kamakura tachi where the slightest deviation would stand out and therefore distortion free shape is a perfection. Unfortunately a typical moved hamachi and squared nakago is more than enough to remove the harmony and produce a blade which is ugly shaped... even though there are still kantei features even sugata wise which suggest its kodachi and not a waki. For ubu piece it is often just simple. For example, in kodachi the curvature continues at the nakago's mune side. In a waki there is usually none, even if there is some above the nakago. Otherwise I think a considerable portion of the confusion here comes from NBTHK stating "its Kamakura shape" versus "its a great sugata". Though obviously I never seen the actual papers I don't feel the second option is the actual case. I don't think any of Kamakura period blades retains a great portion of its "shape aesthetic" in o-suriage. It can still be attractive, but not nearly as much as ubu. It can still be kantei-ed by kissaki alone, yet it remains butchered, in the harshest cases to the point it becomes a straight and flimsy stick affixed to a bizarre curved foundation.

Sold pending payment

Thanks Okan, That explains a lot. It is a small "Tsuba world" after all... Could indeed be some rests of a chemical cleaning product. It also explains the water damage on "the Invincibility Tsuba" (see hereunder from the same pile),which was discussed before with Dale and Piers . (3rd top left on your pic) So Piers was right about the water damage and Alan Morton is probably right about the fire damage if the ship went down in flames. And Dale was right about the Yoshiro 'Mon' who probably were melted out or fell out caused by the temp differences. Kind regards.

I have no idea. I don’t even know how that tsuba ended up in Belgium. See, i found a pile of shipwreck tsuba in an auction. Most of them were rusted very badly, but a few of them were ok..and this was in that pile.. I gave them away to some friends, for free..so i don’t know how it ended up in Belgium. Also, there was no white paint on it..who ever got it must have cleaned it with something very roughly, tried to remove the lacquer on it.